weight training

Behmer said:

What kind of weight training does professional runners do? I am trying
ot find a trainign program that makes sense. I have not found much
results in going low weight high reps. I would like to know what weight
training triathletes foillow.

That's several questions, but I'll take the runners one. Trunk
exercises are important, as well as upper body, but with reasonably
light weights. That is what most pro runners do, so why hasn't it
worked for you? Or what is your goal?

Oh I don't know, you sure sound like a weight lifter to me.

Ughh.......me go.

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:21:55 -0400, [email hidden] (Miss Anne

Thrope) said:

Ughh.......me go.

....potty?

Light weights with high reps builds endurance and strength.
http://www.glennsacks.com/pbs/index.php

"Behmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What kind of weight training does professional runners do? I am trying
ot find a trainign program that makes sense. I have not found much
results in going low weight high reps. I would like to know what weight
training triathletes foillow.

Behmer said:

What kind of weight training does professional runners do?

I suspect that the answer is that "it varies". Quite a lot.

I've experienced dramatic improvements after doing no weight training. I build
running specific "strength" by running fast (either on flats or uphill). The
best thing you can do to your physique as far as running performance is
concerned, is to be as light as you can get without going hungry all the time.

Some things I would recommend though:

(1) prefer compound exercises to isolation. Much more efficient use of time
because you need fewer exercises per workout. For example, squats, deadlifts,
bench press, dumbell shoulder press, pullups. Don't waste time with cute stuff
like wrist curls, dumbell curls, lateral raises, etc.

(2) IMO upper body work will not help you run faster.

(3) do something for the midsection -- abs, obliques, lower back.

Quoted message said:

I am trying ot find a trainign program that makes sense.

Good luck (-;

Quoted message said:

I have not found much results in going low weight high reps.

The key is force/power production. Explosive reps. Wouldn't recommend very high
reps, you don't want to push all the way to (or anywhere near) failure. Better
to terminate the set when you can no longer lift the weight quickly.

So I'd actually advocate doing more sets with less reps, e.g. 10 sets of 3 at
60% max. Lower the weight steadily, explode out of the bottom. To make this
more time efficient, you can alternate pairs of exercises.

Quoted message said:

I would like to know what weight
training triathletes foillow.

No idea.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Behmer said:

What kind of weight training does professional runners do?

I suspect that the answer is that "it varies". Quite a lot.

Yeah, opinion varies all over the spectrum, and I bet DR's right, that
practices do as well.

Quoted message said:

(2) IMO upper body work will not help you run faster.

And Joe McVeigh, FWIW, has said that it makes a big different for him
at the marathon distance.

I don't know who's "right", but

[a] I suspect the optimal training, including weights, varies nearly as
much from one person to the next as do theories about the optimal
training, and

[b] I'll go with Donovan - for now - on this one if only because it
conveniently requires less work of me that I'd rather avoid. (My upper
body could use *something* - traps always tight, right upper arm often
gets tight running - but suspect things like posture and ergonomics @
work and carrying a sometimes heavy messenger type bag may be higher
priorities.)

Quoted message said:

(3) do something for the midsection -- abs, obliques, lower back.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have not found much results in going low weight high reps.

The key is force/power production. Explosive reps.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would like to know what weight training triathletes foillow.

Quoth Charlie Pendejo <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(3) do something for the midsection -- abs, obliques, lower back.

Quoted message said:

And someone like Yessis will partially agree but add that, if the
motion is not running-specific, it won't help much. e.g. he's not a
fan of crunches.

It seems to me that this would help with posture and thus running
form, no?

Cheers,
Craig

--
Corollary to Clarke's Third Law:
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently
advanced.

Craig Pennington said:

Quoth Charlie Pendejo <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(3) do something for the midsection -- abs, obliques, lower back.

Quoted message said:

And someone like Yessis will partially agree but add that, if the
motion is not running-specific, it won't help much. e.g. he's not a
fan of crunches.

It seems to me that this would help with posture and thus running
form, no?

Seems plausible, but where is the evidence that this work actually improves
running performance ? And that's exactly where it's at -- there is a lot of
well-reasoned speculation and theory, but considerably less hard evidence.

One thing I'd say in favor of core work -- besides taking some time that you
could be running, it's very unlikely that it will hurt your performance, because
you will not bulk up from doing it.

There is *some* evidence that the sort of work Yessis advocates (specific
explosive training) is effective as part of a peaking program (but maybe one
could get the same benefits by doing strides or form drills ... )

One thing that I would point out though is that specificity really counts. When
you do specific training (that is, running in this case), you get effects that
not only exceed statistical significance thresholds, the effect size is
substantial. Specific training produces *huge* improvements. There is no guess
work or disagreement that running will make you a better runner, whereas cross
training, in its various forms, generally results in modest to no gains. You
will not get 20 seconds per mile faster by cross training if you're already
doing a lot of running.

In some cases, there may be a reason those benefits aren't available via
running, so I certainly would not go so far as to imply that it's necessarily
the case that cross training is a waste of time. My point though is that to get
better at running, you should just go out and run, and then run some more. If
you're not doing 100 miles per week (just throwing an arbitrary big number out
here, but you get the idea, right ?) and speedwork year round, the best thing
you can do for your performance is to do more running.

Moreover, if you're a beginner, your focus should really be on getting out there
and running. If you enjoy doing weights or cross training, that's fine -- go
ahead and do it. It won't hurt, you will be more rounded which is something that
most recreational runners appreciate, and you will enjoy huge gains in running
performance anyway. But to become a faster runner, it's mostly about doing lots
of running.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Craig Pennington said:

Quoth Charlie Pendejo:

Quoted message said:

Yessis [..] he's not a fan of crunches.

It seems to me that this would help with posture and thus running
form, no?

Take it up with Yessis, I'm not his spokesman and have little idea one
way or the other. :-)

Just using him as an example of people's strength-training-for-running
views being all over the map. FWIW, a little search engine whispered
in my ear that he's now got a website. While this page:

http://www.dryessis.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=2

mentions that he likes the "reverse trunk twist", the whole page (and
I'm guessing site) seems to exist mostly just to shill for his book(s).

Pendejo, the other "CP"

Charlie Pendejo said:

Craig Pennington said:

Quoth Charlie Pendejo:

Quoted message said:

Yessis [..] he's not a fan of crunches.

It seems to me that this would help with posture and thus running
form, no?

Take it up with Yessis, I'm not his spokesman and have little idea one
way or the other. :-)

Neither does he, I suspect.

BTW, I wouldn't call him an expert. As far as I know, he hasn't produced a
single peer reviewed publication.

Out of the people you mentioned, Yessis's opinion would weigh in at a dead last.
Yes, I'm somewhat interested in what that Charlie guy has to say and not the
least bit interested in Yessis.

McVeigh certainly has my ear. Find it hard to believe he does weights though.
Have you seen him in person ? The guy is built like Alan Culpepper. I suppose
he's not the type to bulk up.

The first time I saw him, I showed up to some smalltown NJ race, and looking at
the previous years times I thought I could go for an outright win. Then
McVeigh showed up, jogging around in his tracksuit, looking very confident, and
even though I had no idea who he was or how fast he'd run, my heart plummeted.
Just to look at him, I was pretty sure he'd go sub 32, the only question was how
far under.

In the end, they botched the tag scoring -- they were all downshifted, I suppose
the "button hitter" missed him crossing because he was just a blur (and not a
very big blur), so his official time was 36:xx. Not sure whether I should have
been happy to have an official time within 3 minutes of him, or whether I should
have been [censored] that my time was 39:xx.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

McVeigh certainly has my ear. Find it hard to believe he does
weights though. Have you seen him in person ? The guy is built
like Alan Culpepper.

I have not seen him, knowingly at least. I am absolutely certain he
claimed great benefit from upper-body strength training on letsrun but
now I cannot find it (despite the superior search facility ;-).

In the process of trying, I did find out about your "MC Esher shortcut"
in Central Park, which I hope you'll share with me and lance - I could
really use the help. Otherwise, do you have Rosie Ruiz' number handy?

Quoted message said:

The first time I saw him, I showed up to some smalltown NJ race,
and looking at the previous years times I thought I could go for
an outright win. Then McVeigh showed up

Thanks - great story!

Charlie Pendejo said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

McVeigh certainly has my ear. Find it hard to believe he does
weights though. Have you seen him in person ? The guy is built
like Alan Culpepper.

I have not seen him, knowingly at least.

http://www.mensracing.com/photos/2004/ingnewyorkcitymarathon04/index04.html
http://brightroom.com/view_user_event.asp?EVENTID=4590&PWD=&BIB=4779

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/