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Hamilton questions

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Road Cycling
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11 August 2003
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15 August 2003
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Bob Schwartz
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  1. - Is there an open container law in Hamilton, i.e. can I crack open a beer at curbside while I
    watch the race?

    - Looking at the race schedule and the CBC coverage schedule it appears that there will be almost no
    live TV of the races. By that I mean that there is little overlap between when the races are
    scheduled and when TV coverage is scheduled. This means that you won't be able to bring a portable
    and see what is going on on the other side of the course.

    Am I on track here that this is some lame ass attempt to help sell grandstand tickets by the big
    screen TVs?

    Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

  2. If the race wasn't in Hamilton, we (Canadians ) would have likely got exactly 0 hours of coverage on
    any cable channel (maybe a 1 hour show a week or two after the event). Almost all CBC sports
    coverage (except for Hockey & Football) is tape-delayed, usually by one or two weeks or more.

    Dan

    "Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    - Is there an open container law in Hamilton, i.e. can I crack open a beer at curbside while I
    watch the race?

    - Looking at the race schedule and the CBC coverage schedule it appears that there will be almost
    no live TV of the races. By that I mean that there is little overlap between when the races are
    scheduled and when TV coverage is scheduled. This means that you won't be able to bring a
    portable and see what is going on on the other side of the course.

    Am I on track here that this is some lame ass attempt to help sell grandstand tickets by the big
    screen TVs?

    Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

  3. "Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    - Is there an open container law in Hamilton, i.e. can I crack open a beer at curbside while I
    watch the race?

    <<snip..>>

    Quoted message said:


    Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

    I suspect that you will not be able to crack a beer at curbside. It is, in general, illegal to have
    open alcohol in a public place in Canada (pretty sure that's how it goes..). You can drink on
    private property, assuming you can find some private property and get permission from the owner. It
    is also illegal to be drunk in a public place. There will be some beer tents setup I suspect, to
    extract more money from the spectators. This rule is not always strongly enforced, but I wouldn't be
    surprised if it is enforced during the Worlds.

    Cheers,

    Scott..

  4. Unfortunately you cannot have an open container of alcohol outside a licensed establishment ( I'm
    sure if you conceal it well enough no one will bother you). But if you are a female it is lawful to
    go bare-chested and smoke a joint (as long as you don't pass it to anyone else because that would be
    trafficking) Strange but true, us Canadians have some strange laws.

    Rob

    "Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    - Is there an open container law in Hamilton, i.e. can I crack open a beer at curbside while I
    watch the race?

    - Looking at the race schedule and the CBC coverage schedule it appears that there will be almost
    no live TV of the races. By that I mean that there is little overlap between when the races are
    scheduled and when TV coverage is scheduled. This means that you won't be able to bring a
    portable and see what is going on on the other side of the course.

    Am I on track here that this is some lame ass attempt to help sell grandstand tickets by the big
    screen TVs?

    Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

  5. Bob Schwartz said:

    Is there an open container law in Hamilton, i.e. can I crack open a beer at curbside while I watch
    the race?

    Put yer suds in yer bidon sport, same as we do at the critical mass ridez, and stash yer hash.

    Hamilton city cofferz are mt, so expect the po-lice to be looking for any and all infractions that
    might bring in a few roubles in fines.

    Quoted message said:


    - Looking at the race schedule and the CBC coverage schedule it appears that there will be almost
    no live TV of the races. By that I mean that there is little overlap between when the races are
    scheduled and when TV coverage is scheduled. This means that you won't be able to bring a
    portable and see what is going on on the other side of the course.

    I was gonna take issue with you here. Good job I didn't. The original CBC schedule that I saw had
    almost dawn to dusk live coverage. But I just checked again and what they are offering is at best
    dismal and at worst an insult having regard to the international nature of the event.

    Now admittedly the coverage schedule published appears to be Canadian broadcast times and since I'm
    pretty sure that the CBC will be controlling the race coverage and providing feeds internationally,
    you might in fact get better TV coverage abroad than is available to the local hyphenated-canadian
    yokels who'd much rather see a demolition derby or wet t-shirt contest anyway.

    Quoted message said:


    Am I on track here that this is some lame ass attempt to help sell grandstand tickets by the big
    screen TVs?

    I had thought I would go and watch a few days, but a ticket costs $150 for the whole series or $95
    for the elite mens road race which is exhorbitant, even if they are worthless KanukBuks.

    Besides which, I rode out to the Canadian Nationals a few weeks back, and the course, whilst
    rideable, is nothing short of laughable. Lugano, Barcelona or Montreal it sure ain't. You won't see
    exploits like Fausto shedding Derycke on the Crespera after the little Flahut had sat on his back
    wheel for 70 klicks, or Merckx strutting his stuff up Camillien Houde after Belgium's Shame the year
    before in Barcelona where neither Freddy nor Eddy were capable of winning when the Belgian duo
    should have been able to bury Gimondi and home turf rider Ocana, or Binda leading home Giradengo and
    Piemontesi for an all Italian podium back at the first WC in Nurburgring.

    No, we didn't really expect anything so grand, but the 2003 circuit is totally within the City of
    Hamilton with a coupla small hills that even I can ride on the big ring and a turn around a road
    divider/median just to make sure the lads don't go to sleep.

    Look for Cippo to repeat here in what may go down in the annals of cycling history as the biggest
    F-Up since Arnhem.

    --
    le vent a Dos

    Davey Crockett

  6. Davey Crockett said:

    Look for [Cipo] to repeat here in what may go down in the annals of cycling history as the biggest
    F-Up since Arnhem.

    Yes, the course for the Dutch championships at Arnhem is no fun either.

  7. Davey Crockett <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Put yer suds in yer bidon sport, same as we do at the critical mass ridez, and stash yer hash.

    Hamilton city cofferz are mt, so expect the po-lice to be looking for any and all infractions that
    might bring in a few roubles in fines.

    So maybe brownies would be most appropriate?

  8. Davey Crockett said:


    Look for Cippo to repeat here in what may go down in the annals of cycling history as the biggest
    F-Up since Arnhem.

    Nah, Bettini is going to continue to amaze.

  9. Ewoud Dronkert said:
    Davey Crockett said:

    Look for [Cipo] to repeat here in what may go down in the annals of cycling history as the biggest
    F-Up since Arnhem.

    Yes, the course for the Dutch championships at Arnhem is no fun either.

    Oops. I was referring to a contest of a different kind. Not a cycling type battle but a military
    type engagement.

    I'm sure any cycling events in and around Arnhem these days are most professionally managed.

    But remember? The US 101 Airborne at Remegen, the 82nd at Nijmegen and the 1st British Airborne
    Division at Arnhem supported three days later by the 1st Independent Polish Parachute Brigade
    inexplicably dropped at Driel on the other side of the Rhine.

    By September 1944, WWII had almost reached a conclusion. Given the view that the Germans were almost
    on the point of collapse, it was agreed that a single army should be given priority of supplies and
    manpower to execute a plan that would deal the final blow and win the war before the end of 1944.

    Field Marshal Montgomery proposed a highly ambitious plan to fly three Divisions of glider and
    parachute troops (35,000 men) and land them in various parts of Holland to capture no less than five
    key bridges.

    British tanks would simultaneously break through the front line and link up with the Airborne
    Divisions one by one to properly secure these bridges.

    The plan, the largest airborne assault in the history of warfare, was codenamed Operation
    Market Garden.

    The final bridge at Arnhem, the ultimate goal of Market Garden, was entrusted to General Roy
    Urquhart and his 1st British Airborne Division.

    Opposition had been believed to be light, However, reconnaisance analysis tending to indicate that
    two elite German SS Panzer Divisions had recently been billeted in and around the town was ignored
    by Montgomery for reasons known only to himself.

    These units were well trained, fresh from battle, and were equipped with tanks. And in any case,
    Luftwaffe General Christiansen, Commander in Chief of armed forces in Holland, uncertain why such a
    foolish operation was going ahead anyway, quickly ordered
    Lt. General Hans Von Tettau to form a 'Battle Group' to combat the allied airborne landings
    (see end).

    Added to the fact that the allied forces had dropped into Holland with little in the way of supplies
    and that their supplies were being airdropped into German occupied areas, they had radios that were
    calibrated on the wrong frequency and idiots for commanders who refused to surrender long after
    anybody with half a brain at all would have called it a day long ago.

    The German forces finally were taking no offensive action, limiting their activities to repelling
    the occasional half hearted allied incursion.

    Von Tettau upon several occasions had offered the allies the surrender option which to Von Tattau's
    continual surprise they stubbornly refused. He felt so sorry for the allied soldiers that under a
    white flag he was even evacuating allied wounded to the German field hospital.

    Now if that ain't a F-Up, I dunno what is!!!

    [Listed so you can see how futile Market Garden really was:

    Kampfgruppe Von Tettau - assembled after the landings
    ======================
    L.u.- N.C.O., School Arnheim: Col. Lippert,
    L.v.- Training and Replacement Battalion 4: Lt. Labahn Naval Manning Battalion 10: Kapitan
    Lieutnant Zaubzer
    L.w.- Surveillance Battalion 3 : Col. Paul Anton Helle Tank Company 224 Fliegerhorst Battalion 3
    Soesterberg Fliegerhorst Battalion Regiment Knoche
    L.x.- Battalion Eberwein Regiment 42. Sichecheit

    II S.S. Panzer Korps. 9th and 10th S.S. Panzer Division - already in place.
    =======================================================
    L.y. Pzr Grenadier Battalion 16 Kampfgruppe Hardert Kampfgruppe Weber Fallschirmjager Regiment 6 1st
    Battalion Fallschirmjager Regiment 22 1st Battalion Fallschirmjager Regiment 2 Kampfgruppe
    Brinkmann (Ex Frundsberg Recce. Battalion 10.) 10th S.S. Engineers Battalion 10th S.S.-
    Grenadier Regiment 21. 3rd Company Kampfgruppe Spindler 9th S.S. A/Tank Battalion Panzerjager 9
    9th S.S. Kampfgruppe Moeller 9th S.S. Panzer Grenadier Regiment 20
    L.z. A/A Company and A/A Battalion Assault Gun Brigade 280 9th S.S. A/A Battery.S.S. Kampfgruppe Von
    Allworden Hermann Goering Training Regiment
    L.z. Panzer Grenadier. Regiments 19 and 20 Training and Replacement Regt: Bocholt

    Interestingly the 10th SS Panzer Corps had been formed from the old [censored] Jugend!]

    --
    le vent a Dos

    Davey Crockett

  10. Davey Crockett said:
    Ewoud Dronkert said:

    Yes, the course for the Dutch championships at Arnhem is no fun either.

    Oops. I was referring to a contest of a different kind. Not a cycling type battle but a military
    type engagement.

    I know, I know. "A bridge too far" etc.

    Quoted message said:

    I'm sure any cycling events in and around Arnhem these days are most professionally managed.

    No doubt, and the national championships for sure, but I was refering to the course which is too
    flat to rip the peloton apart. That's why the last 3 Dutch champions have been sprinters: Jans
    Koerts, Stefan van Dijk and now Rudi Kemna.

  11. Ewoud Dronkert said:

    No doubt, and the national championships for sure, but I was refering to the course which is too
    flat to rip the peloton apart. That's why the last 3 Dutch champions have been sprinters: Jans
    Koerts, Stefan van Dijk and now Rudi Kemna.

    Do you have any hills in Holland that could rip a peloton (even a fat masters peloton) apart ?

  12. Donald Munro said:

    Do you have any hills in Holland that could rip a peloton (even a fat masters peloton) apart ?

    Yes albeit in the far south corner, tight between Belgium and Germany. Valkenburg has been the host
    of a few world championships, and that's also where the Amstel Gold Race is held each year.

  13. "Mapei81" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On sort of a related subject, is there anything to do in Hamilton when one isn't absorbed with
    watching the racing? From afar, I get the impression


    it's

    Quoted message said:

    sort of a sleepy place, but I'm hoping I'm wrong. Anybody know?

    Well, it's not SO bad...kinda the equivalent of a small Pittsburgh I suspect. It's a steel town and
    while not exactly rural and backward, it's sort of the poorer cousin to Toronto. If you want the
    good stuff, hop on the QEW and hit Toronto's club district..Queen St. W area (about 30-45 mins east
    of Hamilton by car/bus/train). Lots of restaurants, bars, clubs, you name it. I'm not sure what you
    have in mind as far as entertainment goes, but Toronto's got a lot. Hamilton is also a nice town,
    but a little smaller and not so exciting perhaps.

    Cheers,

    Scott..

  14. Donald Munro said:
    Quoted message said:

    Do you have any hills in Holland that could rip a peloton (even a fat masters peloton) apart ?

    Ewoud Dronkert said:

    Yes albeit in the far south corner, tight between Belgium and Germany. Valkenburg has been the
    host of a few world championships, and that's also where the Amstel Gold Race is held each year.

    For some reason I always associated the Amstel Gold with Belgium, not Holland, must be the Amstel in
    the title.

  15. Donald Munro said:

    For some reason I always associated the Amstel Gold with Belgium, not Holland, must be the Amstel
    in the title.

    That's strange. Amstel is a Dutch beer, always has been. Now owned by Heineken. The river Amstel
    flows through Amsterdam and gave the city its name.

  16. Donald Munro said:
    Donald Munro said:
    Quoted message said:

    Do you have any hills in Holland that could rip a peloton (even a fat masters peloton) apart ?

    Ewoud Dronkert said:

    Yes albeit in the far south corner, tight between Belgium and Germany. Valkenburg has been the
    host of a few world championships, and that's also where the Amstel Gold Race is held each year.

    For some reason I always associated the Amstel Gold with Belgium, not Holland, must be the Amstel
    in the title.

    Ah, well that explains it.

  17. Donald Munro said:
    Quoted message said:

    For some reason I always associated the Amstel Gold with Belgium, not Holland, must be the Amstel
    in the title.

    Ewoud Dronkert said:

    That's strange. Amstel is a Dutch beer, always has been. Now owned by Heineken. The river Amstel
    flows through Amsterdam and gave the city its name.

    Oops sorry, next I'll be saying Ajax is a Belgian team. :-) My only excuse is I don't drink so I'm
    rather vague about the nationalities of various beverages.

  18. To answer at least one of my own !~@#$ questions:

    cbc.catv worldcycling.html

    Live CBC coverage is limited to the weekends.

    hamilton2003.comschedules.html
    hamilton2003.comtv.html

    Sunday's TV schedule is 14:00-17:00 for a race that is scheduled to run from 09:00-15:45 so I would
    expect less than two hours of live coverage of the elite men.

    On the bright side, it looks like most of Saturday's elite women's race will be on live.

    So if you will be watching the race on site it will pay to bring a handheld TV, but not as much as
    you would like.

    Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

  19. [email hidden] (Mapei81) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    On sort of a related subject, is there anything to do in Hamilton when one isn't absorbed with
    watching the racing? From afar, I get the impression it's sort of a sleepy place, but I'm hoping
    I'm wrong. Anybody know?

    It's not really a sleepy place, it's an industrial/college town. There are plenty of bars and pool
    halls and other divey type places with easy women.

    If you expect Canadians to have mullets and drink beer you will not be disappointed in Hamilton.

    To answer Bob's question. I was drinking beer on the course during the nationals (without incident),
    if you're discreet you should be okay, you can always claim to be from a place where drinking on the
    street is allowed. There are also houses on the course, so you might find a party and a few bars
    where you can watch the race from.

    Hamilton is only about a 40 min drive from Toronto and it has the usual struff any big N.American
    city has. You can easily bus it from Hamilton to Toronto.

    Niagara falls is pretty close too if you care about that kind of [censored] and Gord Singleton has a tire
    shop in the area.

    -Amit

  20. Amit said:

    plenty of bars and pool halls and other divey type places with easy women.

    Easy, even for physicists?!

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