Hi again..

"Stuart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On your advice I stayed away from Halfords and the like and went to my

local

Quoted message said:

cycle shop and bought a Marin Larkspur, with road tyres etc. (£360) I
thought I would breeze up these local hillocks on me new bike, but find it
exactly the same struggle as on my £25 car boot mountain bike that is too
small and has huge knobbly tyres.

Hills is hills :-)
The thing is the slower you ride the less effect easier rolling tyres and
wind resistance will have Weight will make a difference but let's face it
5kgs, or whatever, difference between a heavy bike and mid-weight one won't,
on it's own make a vast difference (It should add up on a long hilly ride
however, but the more arduous the route the wearier you become cancelling
out this effect). The gradual loss of bodyweight, assuming you're not
already quite lightl could make more difference over a period and the nicer
the bike the more inclined you may feel to ride therefore achieving weight
loss as a by-product to go with your increased fitness.
Without a benchmark it's hard to assess how much faster, or slower, you're
ascending, however your average speed over the whole ride ought to increase,
for a given route, after factoring in variables like wind. If you stop
improving, or worse yet get slower, then after ruling out illness you could
be over-training, ie not allowing your body a recovery period between rides.

Quoted message said:

so do I now have to get overshoes to suit that
particular type of pedal or are they fairly universal?

Fairly universal. Overshoes (generally) = keen rider. Keen rider = clipless
pedals.

Quoted message said:

(Off on my weekly Hayle to Penzance (Cornwall) cycle ride now - hehe!)

Very nice too, I've done Marazion to St. Ives a couple of times...beautiful!
--
Pete
http:[email hidden]/P

in message <[email hidden]>, Stuart

(') said:

..I posted here a couple of months ago looking for general advice, and
you
were all very kind and gave me some good tips. I have kept the cycling
up
and am enjoying it big time. Where I live though, you can't go more
than 2
miles in any direction without going down, and up :o( , some big
hills. A big hill to me by the way, is approx 50 mtrs rise over a
distance of about
one fifth of a mile.

50 metres over 320 metres is about one in six, so yes, I think most of us
would agree that's short and sharp. Where are you? Devon?

Quoted message said:

I
thought I would breeze up these local hillocks on me new bike, but find
it exactly the same struggle as on my £25 car boot mountain bike that
is too
small and has huge knobbly tyres.

The trick with short sharp hills is

(i) get as much momentum on before you start climbing (ideally by
hurtling down the preceding brae) and then

(ii) try to maintain a high and consistent cadence by changing down gears
progressively as your speed drops

For /really/ short braes the alternate is to sprint them - again get up
the maximum possible momentum before you start to climb, and then, when
the speed starts to drop, don't change down but get out of the saddle
and stomp. The problem with this is that if the hill is too long and you
lose too much forward momentum, you'll be stuck in completely the wrong
gear with the transmission under too much tension to change smoothly...

Quoted message said:

Trouble is, I bought the cycling pedals but the overshoes were
too small - I take a size 12 - so do I now have to get overshoes to
suit that particular type of pedal or are they fairly universal?

The Aldi cleats are compatible with any SPD compatible shoe, although I
believe they aren't identical to SPD cleats.

Quoted message said:

(Off on my weekly Hayle to Penzance (Cornwall) cycle ride now - hehe!)

Ah! Short sharp hills now explained!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other
;; languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their
;; pockets for new vocabulary -- James D. Nicoll

stuart said:

Sorry, made a miscalculation on the severity of the hills. I was estimating
the distance to be one fith of a mile but the actual distance is (just
bought a gadget) half a mile hile rising 50 mtrs.

Looking at a map that's about the same as some of the local hills I
go up reasonably regularly. And while I /can/ get a 20 Kg bike up
them with 50 Kg of coal on board, it isn't a trivial hill with that
sort of load and it isn't trivial with no load at all if you're not
used to it.
So clearly the key is getting used to it! The best way to get the
muscles and cardiovascular response for cycling up big hills is to
cycle up big hills... Change smoothly down through the gears as
you slow down (don't wait until you're really forcing the pedals
around before changing, if it isn't a smooth change you'll soon
know) and try and keep the pedals spinning at a fair rate of knots.
Try to avoid standing up if you can, it'll keep things aerobic
for longer.

And when you can, try again. And then again, and again. Hills
never disappear, but they do get significantly easier. I have to
work at a hill like that, but it's all aerobic for me these days
and I'm recovered within seconds of topping out. When you're at
that stage you get to where Greg Lemond meant something like "they
never get easier, but they do get quicker". But for starters they
do get easier with practice!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

The trick with short sharp hills is

(i) get as much momentum on before you start climbing (ideally by
hurtling down the preceding brae) and then

(ii) try to maintain a high and consistent cadence by changing down gears
progressively as your speed drops

For /really/ short braes the alternate is to sprint them - again get up
the maximum possible momentum before you start to climb, and then, when
the speed starts to drop, don't change down but get out of the saddle
and stomp. The problem with this is that if the hill is too long and you
lose too much forward momentum, you'll be stuck in completely the wrong
gear with the transmission under too much tension to change smoothly...

Hmm, this OK for short not very sharp hills IMHO.
But for average cyclists and real hills long and steep like we have
around here (Derbyshire) it's quite different:
1.Momentum is lost in a few yards so don't bother speeding up on the
down; freewheel, have a rest and don't start a climb already out of
breath.
2 Set your objective fairly low - aim only at getting up the hill
without stopping, don't worry about the speed. To do this you have to
take it gently and conserve energy.
3 Change into low gear right at the start and take it very gently at
your own pace.
4 If you feel its getting harder slow down and change down sooner
rather than later.
5 Keep your speed right down to a level which you can maintain however
feeble it seems - if you try too hard you simply run out of energy and
have to stop
6 Ignore geeks on mountain bikes overtaking at speed - they'll probably
run out of energy before you do and you will creep past them
eventually.
7 If you have any strength left near the top then you can speed up -
but not too soon or you will have to slow down again

So it's slow and steady - aim only at not having to stop and with
practice it really does get easier.

cheers

Jacob

Quoted message said:

3 Change into low gear right at the start and take it very gently at
your own pace.
4 If you feel its getting harder slow down and change down sooner
rather than later.

While I agree that trying to rush it won't really help on a big
long grind you might as well use what natural speed you have.

If you aim at keeping a uniform cadence and hit the hill doing 80+
rpm then use the gears to keep at that cadence as you naturally
slow down. At that number of revs the gears should change nicely,
and just moce down naturally through the gears in whetever time it
takes as you keep up a high cadence.

You should only let the cadence drop off when you're in first, and
have nowhere else to go, but if you can keep it rolling at 80+ in
2nd or 3rd, be in 2nd or 3rd.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

Quoted message said:

The trick with short sharp hills is

(i) get as much momentum on before you start climbing (ideally by
hurtling down the preceding brae) and then

(ii) try to maintain a high and consistent cadence by changing down
gears progressively as your speed drops

For /really/ short braes the alternate is to sprint them - again get
up the maximum possible momentum before you start to climb, and then,
when the speed starts to drop, don't change down but get out of the
saddle and stomp. The problem with this is that if the hill is too
long and you lose too much forward momentum, you'll be stuck in
completely the wrong gear with the transmission under too much tension
to change smoothly...

Hmm, this OK for short not very sharp hills IMHO.
But for average cyclists and real hills long and steep like we have
around here (Derbyshire) it's quite different:

Yes, but he wasn't talking about real hills, just short (and it now
appears not very) sharp braes. When you've got a series of short, sharp
hills, the momentum from the last one can often carry you a fair way up
the next one. Those you can charge, charge; those you can't charge,
spin. Indeed that's more or less a recipe for all hills because on the
really long climbs you need to keep spinning.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Usenet: like distance learning without the learning.

Stuart said:

mountains of stuff there). Trouble is, I bought the cycling pedals but
the overshoes were too small - I take a size 12

Go on. I'll buy them from you.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes, but he wasn't talking about real hills, just short (and it now
appears not very) sharp braes. When you've got a series of short, sharp
hills, the momentum from the last one can often carry you a fair way up
the next one. Those you can charge, charge; those you can't charge,
spin. Indeed that's more or less a recipe for all hills because on the
really long climbs you need to keep spinning.

This is true of many hills in Leicestershire which are of roller coaster
nature. You can be descending with the next climb looming and then find
yourself a good way up it before really having gone down far through the
gears, it's a great moral boost.
Climbs like Holme Moss, OTOH, rely on sheer dogged determination as the road
climbs away into infinite distance.
--
Pete
http:[email hidden]/P

snip

Quoted message said:

Hills is hills :-)
The thing is the slower you ride the less effect easier rolling tyres and
wind resistance will have Weight will make a difference but let's face it
5kgs, or whatever, difference between a heavy bike and mid-weight one
won't,
on it's own make a vast difference (It should add up on a long hilly ride
however, but the more arduous the route the wearier you become cancelling
out this effect).

Yes, I can see that now - (maybe a small engine of some kind.... ;o)
Cheers
Stuart

Quoted message said:

Sorry, made a miscalculation on the severity of the hills. I was estimating
the distance to be one fith of a mile but the actual distance is (just
bought a gadget) half a mile hile rising 50 mtrs.
cheers
"Stuart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

..I posted here a couple of months ago looking for general advice, and you
were all very kind and gave me some good tips. I have kept the cycling up
and am enjoying it big time. Where I live though, you can't go more than
2 miles in any direction without going down, and up :o( , some big hills.
A big hill to me by the way, is approx 50 mtrs rise over a distance of
about one fifth of a mile. ( I am a gadget man and have an altimeter on
my watch). Is this a big hill to you? or a relativley straightforward
one??. On your advice I stayed away from Halfords and the like and went to
my local cycle shop and bought a Marin Larkspur, with road tyres etc.
(£360) I thought I would breeze up these local hillocks on me new bike,
but find it exactly the same struggle as on my £25 car boot mountain bike
that is too small and has huge knobbly tyres. The Marin is a great
looking bike though. Also, after reading about it here, I went to my local
Aldi's and bought up half their stock of cycling goodies, and very pleased
with my haul I am too. (I didnt get there until the Saturday and there was
mountains of stuff there). Trouble is, I bought the cycling pedals but
the overshoes were too small - I take a size 12 - so do I now have to get
overshoes to suit that particular type of pedal or are they fairly
universal?
TIA
Stuart
(Off on my weekly Hayle to Penzance (Cornwall) cycle ride now - hehe!)

Quoted message said:

And when you can, try again. And then again, and again. Hills never
disappear, but they do get significantly easier. I have to work at a hill
like that, but it's all aerobic for me these days and I'm recovered within
seconds of topping out. When you're at that stage you get to where Greg
Lemond meant something like "they never get easier, but they do get
quicker". But for starters they do get easier with practice!

I must admit I have tried all ways to get up these hills, and I actually
find it the easiest, as somebody has already mentioned, to coast down the
preceeding hill and just start pedalling in second and change down to first
when needed. I also find it easier if I dont leave it for a full week
before going out, and I am finding that when I first started I was coming
home absolutely wiped out (have you seen the guinness advert with the fish
on the bike?), but now I am pretty much recovered a few minutes after I get
to the top of the hill. One more thing, and your all going to think i'm a
complete knob, but i'm not sure now if the milometer gadget thing I bought
(especially for this thread!) is set to kilometres or miles, so it may be
50mtrs over half a kilometre, not mile (i'll check!) Everytime I go out I
have to choose between 4 hills which are all about the same severity. It
does give me a good sense of achivement

Quoted message said:

though, and I look forward to going out.

Thanks all for all your comments
Stuart

Quoted message said:

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Simon Brooke said:

Yes, but he wasn't talking about real hills, just short (and it now
appears not very) sharp braes.

Fair's fair, 50m of ascent is a good size hill, even if it isn't 1
in 6 all the way.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Stuart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Everytime I go out I
have to choose between 4 hills which are all about the same severity. It
does give me a good sense of achivement

Quoted message said:

though, and I look forward to going out.

Nothing like a hill, first the achievement of topping it, second the reward
of the view (usually) and thirdly the buzz of descending the other side. I
hate flat roads ;-)

Oh, BTW, I've just come back from a ride and noted the only hills I can
sprint up are in fact hump back bridges. Long hills are done seated in a low
gear and when I run out of gears it's stand up and grind!
--
Pete
http:[email hidden]/P