A size problem

Peter Moran said:

You learn something new every day. I always thought flukes were very small,
but the one that Hulda claims to be the cause of cancer etc can grow to 8 cm
(over three inches) in length. Somewhat hard to miss at autopsy or
surgery.

http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~parasite/fasciolopsis.html

Peter Moran

I"ve researched this many times and meant to ask or tell you, here's my
understanding.
Flukes may be a risk factor for cirrhosis, cirrhosis is listed as one of the
risk factors for "liver cancer" at the NCI website.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancerinfo/wyntk/liver They also mention parasites as a
risk factor.

So from there I ask, where are these flukes and who is most commonly affected by
primary liver cancers?

and please note flukes mention with "cholangiocarcinoma"

http://www.oncologychannel.com/hepatobiliary/
Approximately 1 million new cases of liver and biliary tract cancer are
diagnosed around the globe every year. Incidence rates vary by country, although
several areas are considered "hotspots." These include China, Japan, and
Sub-Saharan Africa. It is believed the high rates in these regions may be
associated with hepatitis B and/or mycotoxin contamination of foodstuffs, stored
grains, drinking water, and soil.
Although tumors of the liver and biliary tract are among the most common tumors
worldwide, they are relatively rare in the United States—approximately 15,000
new cases annually, resulting in about 12,000 deaths. Of these new cases,
roughly half (7000) are tumors of the gallbladder, a third (5000) are tumors of
the extrahepatic and intrahepatic biliary ducts, and the remainder (approx.
3000) are cancerous growths of the liver called primary hepatocellular
carcinomas (HCCs), or primary liver cancer.

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section4/chapter47/47c.jsp
OTHER PRIMARY LIVER CANCERS
Fibrolamellar carcinoma is a distinct variant of hepatocellular carcinoma with
characteristic morphology of malignant hepatocytes enmeshed in lamellar fibrous
tissue. It usually occurs in young adults and has no association with
preexisting cirrhosis, HBV or HCV, or other known risk factors. -Fetoprotein
levels are only uncommonly elevated. The prognosis is better than for
hepatocellular carcinoma, and some patients survive several years after tumor
resection.

Cholangiocarcinoma, a tumor arising from biliary epithelium, is common in China,
where underlying infestation with liver flukes is believed partially
responsible. Elsewhere, it is less common than hepatocellular carcinoma.
Histologic overlap between the two may occur. Patients with long-standing
ulcerative colitis and sclerosing cholangitis occasionally develop
cholangiocarcinoma. Hepatoblastoma is a common cancer in infants. It
occasionally presents with precocious puberty caused by ectopic gonadotropin
production, but it is usually detected because of failing systemic health and a
right upper quadrant mass. The rare angiosarcoma has attracted attention because
of an association with industrial exposure to vinyl chloride.

Diagnosis of these tumors is based on histology. Therapy is usually of little
value, and the prognosis is poor.[end quoted material]
J

Peter Moran said:

You learn something new every day. I always thought flukes were very small,
but the one that Hulda claims to be the cause of cancer etc can grow to 8 cm
(over three inches) in length. Somewhat hard to miss at autopsy or
surgery.

http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~parasite/fasciolopsis.html

Peter Moran

To continue,
so where are "liver flukes" besides places like Asia ? probably Australia, South
America etc,
(but with the warming effect which is bringing odd weather changes to more
northerly areas of the world...)
http://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/path/teach/vem5154/flukes.htm (in the US)

How are they transmitted? Well snails are an intermediate host
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-BE_cca/INF-BE_cca00/INF-BE_cca0011.html

meat http://midwest.fws.gov/agassiz/moosesite/fluke.html
and I think I saw mention of ova in feces.

So eating improperly cooked meats? drinking water where infected feces may be?
eating or accidentally swallowing live snails? Some countries bathe and drink
or use cooking water out of rivers where cattle etc also bathe..

So if Hulda is the zapper thing, maybe the studies should be longterm as to
whether "zappers" kill flukes or ova in humans? (which I really doubt, unless
the zapper was full-strength against the fluke itself inside the body, not
outside the body).

From there I ask, is there a market for this in China (if it did work)?
Probably not, they've got bigger problems to worry about like putting food (any
food) and water on the table.
So there'll probably never be studies or maybe there were since Merck mentions
flukes?
J

"J" <jarretiè[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Moran said:

You learn something new every day. I always thought flukes were very

small,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but the one that Hulda claims to be the cause of cancer etc can grow to

8 cm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(over three inches) in length. Somewhat hard to miss at autopsy or
surgery.

http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~parasite/fasciolopsis.html

Peter Moran

To continue,
so where are "liver flukes" besides places like Asia ? probably Australia,

South

Quoted message said:

America etc,

Not Australia, despite the usual high prevalence of cancer in civilised
countries, and I doubt South America. I haven't looked it up but I think
rice paddies or at least very moist tropical environments are involved in
the life cycle of most flukes.

Quoted message said:

(but with the warming effect which is bringing odd weather changes to more
northerly areas of the world...)
http://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/path/teach/vem5154/flukes.htm (in the US)

How are they transmitted? Well snails are an intermediate host

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-BE_cca/INF-BE_cca00/INF-BE_cca0011.html

Quoted message said:

meat http://midwest.fws.gov/agassiz/moosesite/fluke.html
and I think I saw mention of ova in feces.

So eating improperly cooked meats? drinking water where infected feces may

be?

Quoted message said:

eating or accidentally swallowing live snails? Some countries bathe and

drink

Quoted message said:

or use cooking water out of rivers where cattle etc also bathe..

So if Hulda is the zapper thing, maybe the studies should be longterm as

to

Quoted message said:

whether "zappers" kill flukes or ova in humans? (which I really doubt,

unless

Quoted message said:

the zapper was full-strength against the fluke itself inside the body, not
outside the body).

The zapper won't even cause a nerve or muscle twitch, so it is hard to see
it producing enough current to damage anything, even if it happened to be
the principal current pathway through the body.

Hulda as always, has to go over the top. She is now into "plate zapping"
where using pathology slides along with teh zapper people can zap their left
adrenal gland or pituitary, or whatever.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

From there I ask, is there a market for this in China (if it did work)?
Probably not, they've got bigger problems to worry about like putting food

(any

Quoted message said:

food) and water on the table.
So there'll probably never be studies or maybe there were since Merck

mentions

Quoted message said:

flukes?
J

Peter,

Australia has the sheep liver fluke and Intestinal Fluke:

Sheep liver fluke:
Fasciola hepatica is more common in Central and South America, parts of
Africa, Asia, and Australia. Infection is usually acquired from eating the
larva worms encysted on such aquatic vegetation as watercress. Worms migrate
to the liver and bile ducts, where they produce upper right quadrant
abdominal pain, liver abscesses, and fibrosis.

Intestinal fluke:
Fasciolopsis buski is more common in Southeast Asia, Australia, and Latin
America. Transmission occurs when individuals bite into the unpeeled outer
skin of plants that harbor encycsted larvae. Such plants can be water
chestnuts, bamboo shoots, and lotus plant roots because they are often
cultivated in ponds and streams infected by animal waste. Adult flukes live
in the duodenum (the shortest and widest part of the small intestine) and
jejunum (connects the duodenum and the ileum, which opens into the large
intestine), where they cause ulceration. Symptoms include the following:
diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, as well as facial and abdominal
edema.

The Fluke is abundantly found in drier regions of Australia (the Station
country).
Man usually becomes infected after ingesting insufficiently cooked fish,
crustaceans, or vegetables that contain their larvae. The cycle begins when
larvae are released into freshwater by infected snails. The free-swimming
larvae can then directly penetrate the skin of humans while swimming or be
ingested after encycsting in or on various edible vegetation, fish, or
crustaceans

The "current" used by a zapper is not the issue, it is the frequency that is
said to do the damage to bacteria/virus and pathogens. I think Radiotherapy
works on frequency and perhaps you may care to inform us about that
treatment.

Best wishes, Rod.

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"J" <jarretiè[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Moran said:

You learn something new every day. I always thought flukes were very

small,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but the one that Hulda claims to be the cause of cancer etc can grow

to

Quoted message said:

8 cm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(over three inches) in length. Somewhat hard to miss at autopsy or
surgery.

http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~parasite/fasciolopsis.html

Peter Moran

To continue,
so where are "liver flukes" besides places like Asia ? probably

Australia,

Quoted message said:

South

Quoted message said:

America etc,

Not Australia, despite the usual high prevalence of cancer in civilised
countries, and I doubt South America. I haven't looked it up but I think
rice paddies or at least very moist tropical environments are involved in
the life cycle of most flukes.

Quoted message said:

(but with the warming effect which is bringing odd weather changes to

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

northerly areas of the world...)
http://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/path/teach/vem5154/flukes.htm (in the US)

How are they transmitted? Well snails are an intermediate host

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-BE_cca/INF-BE_cca00/INF-BE_cca0011.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

meat http://midwest.fws.gov/agassiz/moosesite/fluke.html
and I think I saw mention of ova in feces.

So eating improperly cooked meats? drinking water where infected feces

may

Quoted message said:

be?

Quoted message said:

eating or accidentally swallowing live snails? Some countries bathe and

drink

Quoted message said:

or use cooking water out of rivers where cattle etc also bathe..

So if Hulda is the zapper thing, maybe the studies should be longterm as

to

Quoted message said:

whether "zappers" kill flukes or ova in humans? (which I really doubt,

unless

Quoted message said:

the zapper was full-strength against the fluke itself inside the body,

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

outside the body).

The zapper won't even cause a nerve or muscle twitch, so it is hard to see
it producing enough current to damage anything, even if it happened to be
the principal current pathway through the body.

Hulda as always, has to go over the top. She is now into "plate zapping"
where using pathology slides along with teh zapper people can zap their

left

Quoted message said:

adrenal gland or pituitary, or whatever.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

From there I ask, is there a market for this in China (if it did work)?
Probably not, they've got bigger problems to worry about like putting

food

Quoted message said:

(any

Quoted message said:

food) and water on the table.
So there'll probably never be studies or maybe there were since Merck

mentions

Quoted message said:

flukes?
J

"Rod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter,

Australia has the sheep liver fluke and Intestinal Fluke:

Sheep liver fluke:
Fasciola hepatica is more common in Central and South America, parts of
Africa, Asia, and Australia. Infection is usually acquired from eating the
larva worms encysted on such aquatic vegetation as watercress. Worms

migrate

Quoted message said:

to the liver and bile ducts, where they produce upper right quadrant
abdominal pain, liver abscesses, and fibrosis.

Intestinal fluke:
Fasciolopsis buski is more common in Southeast Asia, Australia, and Latin
America. Transmission occurs when individuals bite into the unpeeled outer
skin of plants that harbor encycsted larvae. Such plants can be water
chestnuts, bamboo shoots, and lotus plant roots because they are often
cultivated in ponds and streams infected by animal waste. Adult flukes

live

Quoted message said:

in the duodenum (the shortest and widest part of the small intestine) and
jejunum (connects the duodenum and the ileum, which opens into the large
intestine), where they cause ulceration. Symptoms include the following:
diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, as well as facial and

abdominal

Quoted message said:

edema.

The Fluke is abundantly found in drier regions of Australia (the Station
country).
Man usually becomes infected after ingesting insufficiently cooked fish,
crustaceans, or vegetables that contain their larvae. The cycle begins

when

Quoted message said:

larvae are released into freshwater by infected snails. The free-swimming
larvae can then directly penetrate the skin of humans while swimming or be
ingested after encycsting in or on various edible vegetation, fish, or
crustaceans

Thanks for this. Although I have been reading the Australian Medical
Journal and practising in Australia for about thirty years, I don't recall
seeing a case of liver fluke infection reported in humans, regardless of the
claimed prevalence of the fluke. Barramundi is also our most prized fish,
and I have never heard any cautions made concerning the eating of this fish,
which occurs in the freshwater habitats described. So human infection
must be a very rare occurrence even here.

That is the whole point, as Hulda's theories require it to be present in all
cancer patients, even those in Melbourne.

Quoted message said:

The "current" used by a zapper is not the issue, it is the frequency that

is

Quoted message said:

said to do the damage to bacteria/virus and pathogens. I think

Radiotherapy

Quoted message said:

works on frequency and perhaps you may care to inform us about that
treatment.

Radiotherapy works via beams of subatomic particles with a certain energy.
The "energy" of the current also has to be a factor in the effectiveness of
anything that "works" via frequency. But Zapper theory is so vague and so
unsupported by experimental data that it is virtually impossible to discuss
it meaningfully. The obvious experiments have never been done.

Peter Moran

In article
<[email hidden]
om.au>,

Peter Moran said:

"Rod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The "current" used by a zapper is not the issue, it is the frequency that

is

Quoted message said:

said to do the damage to bacteria/virus and pathogens. I think

Radiotherapy

Quoted message said:

works on frequency and perhaps you may care to inform us about that
treatment.

Radiotherapy works via beams of subatomic particles with a certain energy.
The "energy" of the current also has to be a factor in the effectiveness of
anything that "works" via frequency. But Zapper theory is so vague and so
unsupported by experimental data that it is virtually impossible to discuss
it meaningfully. The obvious experiments have never been done.

However, the Zapper can convincingly be argued not to work solely on the
basis of physics. Simply put, its energy output is too low to kill
anything, much less a mysterious fluke.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"