General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Re: Misplaced Priorities

Started by Jan · · Last activity · 15 posts · 306 views

This thread is locked and is currently read-only.

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
10 May 2004
Last activity
11 May 2004
Original author
Jan
Posts
15
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
306
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–15 of 15
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Quoted message said:

    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Ralph Moss looks at new MLM scam

    Peter is most imterested in this, and is eager to mention Hulda's name, but
    shows no interest in the many needless mistakes and deaths each day. Contary to
    what the *gang* has been saying the errors are increasing.

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/10/29/hospitals_report_incr
    ease_in_errors/

    Hospitals report increase in errors
    Leading causes: falls and surgical blunders
    By Stephen Smith, Globe Staff, 10/29/2003

    Mistakes reported by Massachusetts hospitals soared by 32 percent during the
    past three years, according to a sweeping review of medical errors released
    yesterday by the state Department of Public Health.

    In the latest period measured by state researchers, stretching from July 1,
    2002, through June 30, hospitals reported 757 errors that resulted in injury to
    patients, including 65 deaths. That compares with 574 mistakes in 2000.

    Falls by patients that could have been prevented were the leading cause of
    injury, accounting for half of the incidents, but hospitals also reported
    operations being performed on the wrong limb or organ and episodes in which
    sponges or surgical tools were mistakenly left inside patients.

    Authors of the report and a hospital trade association said the increase in
    error reports reflects greater vigilance by medical centers in reporting their
    mistakes, rather than a true spike in errors.

    The Massachusetts Nurses Association disputed that account, contending that
    hospital workers are spread too thin to give quality care to patients who are
    increasingly sicker and older.

    A Tufts University School of Medicine professor who has studied issues of
    hospital quality for two decades said the increase was probably due to a
    combination of both factors.

    "We are only now starting to measure errors, and we're also putting into place
    reporting systems that more likely guarantee anonymity for people reporting
    mistakes and that's all good," said Dr. Harry Selker. "But it's not
    inconceivable to me that there are care factors contributing to increased
    errors as well. As you stretch nurses thinner and thinner and the patients come
    in faster and faster, there's no doubt greater chance for errors."

    The report comes at a time when hospitals are weathering intense scrutiny over
    the quality of care they provide, with one landmark national study estimating
    that as many as 98,000 people each year die because of mistakes within the
    health-care system.

    Just six weeks ago, state investigators released details of four cases at
    Children's Hospital Boston that raised significant issues involving
    communication and accountability. In three of those cases, children died.

    The movement in Massachusetts to enhance patient care and the tracking of
    errors traces back to the 1994 death of Boston Globe health columnist Betsy
    Lehman, who was killed by overdoses of chemotherapy while being treated at
    Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, said Nancy Ridley, an assistant commissioner at
    the Department of Public Health.

    "That event sent a shot around the world as far as realizing that some of the
    most common problems can occur in our best institutions and that the medical
    world needed to do something about those problems," Ridley said.

    One solution was an attempt to figure out just how severe the problems really
    are. The result is improvements in the error reporting system adopted by the
    state in the mid-1990s, requiring hospitals and long-term care facilities such
    as nursing homes to report mistakes. Another component of the initiative is a
    mechanism for consumer complaints.

    At long-term care facilities, the errors reported by institutions and consumers
    increased by 14 percent from 10,288 in 1996 to 11,770 in 2002, with almost all
    of that increase in the first two years. Hospitals had a 76 percent jump during
    that period in errors reported by facilities and consumers.

    "Most of the increase in reports we receive from hospitals is a function of
    hospitals being more aware of their reporting responsibilities," said Paul
    Dreyer, deputy director of the Bureau of Health Quality Management.

    That view was echoed by a spokesman for the Massachusetts Hospital Association
    who said the organization had "made a very concerted effort" to encourage
    members to report mistakes and to move swiftly to improve quality rather than
    assigning blame.

    Massachusetts Nurses Association, which represents 22,000 nurses, said medical
    workers are facing unrealistic demands. Nurses are routinely forced to care for
    six or eight patients when they should be assigned to no more than four, said
    Karen Higgins, the group's president.

  2. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Ralph Moss looks at new MLM scam

    Peter is most imterested in this, and is eager to mention Hulda's name,


    but

    Quoted message said:

    shows no interest in the many needless mistakes and deaths each day.


    Contary to

    Quoted message said:

    what the *gang* has been saying the errors are increasing.

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/10/29/hospitals_report_incr
    ease_in_errors/

    Hospitals report increase in errors
    Leading causes: falls and surgical blunders
    By Stephen Smith, Globe Staff, 10/29/2003

    Mistakes reported by Massachusetts hospitals soared by 32 percent during


    the

    Quoted message said:

    past three years, according to a sweeping review of medical errors


    released

    Quoted message said:

    yesterday by the state Department of Public Health.

    Oh, grow up!!!

    How many medical errors, or falls by old people in hospital, does it take to
    prove that an alternative method works, and which ones are they?

    Peter Moran

  3. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Misplaced Priorities
    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/10/2004 12:26 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Ralph Moss looks at new MLM scam

    Peter is most imterested in this, and is eager to mention Hulda's name,


    but

    Quoted message said:

    shows no interest in the many needless mistakes and deaths each day.


    Contary to

    Quoted message said:

    what the *gang* has been saying the errors are increasing.

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/10/29/hospitals_report_incr
    ease_in_errors/

    Hospitals report increase in errors
    Leading causes: falls and surgical blunders
    By Stephen Smith, Globe Staff, 10/29/2003

    Mistakes reported by Massachusetts hospitals soared by 32 percent during


    the

    Quoted message said:

    past three years, according to a sweeping review of medical errors


    released

    Quoted message said:

    yesterday by the state Department of Public Health.

    Oh, grow up!!

    Personal attacks, rather than appropriate action, or concern.

    Misplaced priorities hit a nerve.

    WHEN is something going to be done about this??? WHAT can YOU do as a doctor???

    The doctors here do nothing but bash alternative medicine RATHER than help
    clean up the mess in their own profession.

    Proving still yet the sad condition and mindset of organized medicine.

    Peter doesn't want to discuss this.

    Now if it were something about Hulda Clark or Jan there would be a flood of
    posts, sadly there is very little interest in this HUGE problem, which is
    getting worse.

    Jan

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/10/29/hospitals_report_incr
    ease_in_errors/

    Hospitals report increase in errors
    Leading causes: falls and surgical blunders
    By Stephen Smith, Globe Staff, 10/29/2003

    Mistakes reported by Massachusetts hospitals soared by 32 percent during the
    past three years, according to a sweeping review of medical errors released
    yesterday by the state Department of Public Health.

    In the latest period measured by state researchers, stretching from July 1,
    2002, through June 30, hospitals reported 757 errors that resulted in injury to
    patients, including 65 deaths. That compares with 574 mistakes in 2000.

    Falls by patients that could have been prevented were the leading cause of
    injury, accounting for half of the incidents, but hospitals also reported
    operations being performed on the wrong limb or organ and episodes in which
    sponges or surgical tools were mistakenly left inside patients.

    Authors of the report and a hospital trade association said the increase in
    error reports reflects greater vigilance by medical centers in reporting their
    mistakes, rather than a true spike in errors.

    The Massachusetts Nurses Association disputed that account, contending that
    hospital workers are spread too thin to give quality care to patients who are
    increasingly sicker and older.

    A Tufts University School of Medicine professor who has studied issues of
    hospital quality for two decades said the increase was probably due to a
    combination of both factors.

    "We are only now starting to measure errors, and we're also putting into place
    reporting systems that more likely guarantee anonymity for people reporting
    mistakes and that's all good," said Dr. Harry Selker. "But it's not
    inconceivable to me that there are care factors contributing to increased
    errors as well. As you stretch nurses thinner and thinner and the patients come
    in faster and faster, there's no doubt greater chance for errors."

    The report comes at a time when hospitals are weathering intense scrutiny over
    the quality of care they provide, with one landmark national study estimating
    that as many as 98,000 people each year die because of mistakes within the
    health-care system.

    Just six weeks ago, state investigators released details of four cases at
    Children's Hospital Boston that raised significant issues involving
    communication and accountability. In three of those cases, children died.

    The movement in Massachusetts to enhance patient care and the tracking of
    errors traces back to the 1994 death of Boston Globe health columnist Betsy
    Lehman, who was killed by overdoses of chemotherapy while being treated at
    Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, said Nancy Ridley, an assistant commissioner at
    the Department of Public Health.

    "That event sent a shot around the world as far as realizing that some of the
    most common problems can occur in our best institutions and that the medical
    world needed to do something about those problems," Ridley said.

    One solution was an attempt to figure out just how severe the problems really
    are. The result is improvements in the error reporting system adopted by the
    state in the mid-1990s, requiring hospitals and long-term care facilities such
    as nursing homes to report mistakes. Another component of the initiative is a
    mechanism for consumer complaints.

    At long-term care facilities, the errors reported by institutions and consumers
    increased by 14 percent from 10,288 in 1996 to 11,770 in 2002, with almost all
    of that increase in the first two years. Hospitals had a 76 percent jump during
    that period in errors reported by facilities and consumers.

    "Most of the increase in reports we receive from hospitals is a function of
    hospitals being more aware of their reporting responsibilities," said Paul
    Dreyer, deputy director of the Bureau of Health Quality Management.

    That view was echoed by a spokesman for the Massachusetts Hospital Association
    who said the organization had "made a very concerted effort" to encourage
    members to report mistakes and to move swiftly to improve quality rather than
    assigning blame.

    Massachusetts Nurses Association, which represents 22,000 nurses, said medical
    workers are facing unrealistic demands. Nurses are routinely forced to care for
    six or eight patients when they should be assigned to no more than four, said
    Karen Higgins, the group's president.

  4. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Misplaced Priorities
    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/10/2004 12:26 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:

    <[email hidden]


    u>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    >From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]

    >Subject: Ralph Moss looks at new MLM scam

    Peter is most imterested in this, and is eager to mention Hulda's name,


    but

    Quoted message said:

    shows no interest in the many needless mistakes and deaths each day.


    Contary to

    Quoted message said:

    what the *gang* has been saying the errors are increasing.


    http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/10/29/hospitals_report_incr

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ease_in_errors/

    Hospitals report increase in errors
    Leading causes: falls and surgical blunders
    By Stephen Smith, Globe Staff, 10/29/2003

    Mistakes reported by Massachusetts hospitals soared by 32 percent


    during

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the

    Quoted message said:

    past three years, according to a sweeping review of medical errors


    released

    Quoted message said:

    yesterday by the state Department of Public Health.

    Oh, grow up!!

    Personal attacks, rather than appropriate action, or concern.

    Misplaced priorities hit a nerve.

    WHEN is something going to be done about this??? WHAT can YOU do as a


    doctor???

    Quoted message said:


    The doctors here do nothing but bash alternative medicine RATHER than help
    clean up the mess in their own profession.

    Proving still yet the sad condition and mindset of organized medicine.

    Peter doesn't want to discuss this.

    I am perfectly happy to discuss this - if you seriously want to (see below).
    I would point out for starters that enormous effort goes into trying to
    prevent adverse events in medical practice and within hospitals.

    Quoted message said:


    Now if it were something about Hulda Clark or Jan there would be a flood


    of

    Quoted message said:

    posts, sadly there is very little interest in this HUGE problem, which is
    getting worse.

    How on earth would you know how much interest there is in such problems?
    Have you been involved in quality assurance within hospitals? I have.
    Have you computerised your prescribing system so as to help minimise drug
    interactions and other prescribing errors? Most doctors have nowadays, at
    least in my country..

    You know nothing about this subject.

    This is also another of your many hypocrisies. It is clear to all that you
    personally couldn't give a fig about medical errors. The more there are,
    the better you are pleased. You habitually dredge up anything you can find
    that makes proper medicine look bad, because in a peculiar brain mode of
    some alt supporters that somehow justifies alternative medicine being
    riddled with fraud and delusion and the merciless exploitation of patients
    with serious illnesses.

    And are you going to warn people to be wary of Hulda if you have a curable
    cancer? If not, why not, and what earthly basis do you have for opposing
    those who do?

    Peter Moran

  5. "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Misplaced Priorities
    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/10/2004 12:26 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:


    <[email hidden]
    u>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > >From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    >
    > >Subject: Ralph Moss looks at new MLM scam
    >
    > Peter is most imterested in this, and is eager to mention Hulda's


    name,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    but
    > shows no interest in the many needless mistakes and deaths each day.
    Contary to
    > what the *gang* has been saying the errors are increasing.
    >
    >


    http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/10/29/hospitals_report_incr

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > ease_in_errors/
    >
    > Hospitals report increase in errors
    > Leading causes: falls and surgical blunders
    > By Stephen Smith, Globe Staff, 10/29/2003
    >
    > Mistakes reported by Massachusetts hospitals soared by 32 percent


    during

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the
    > past three years, according to a sweeping review of medical errors
    released
    > yesterday by the state Department of Public Health.

    Oh, grow up!!

    Personal attacks, rather than appropriate action, or concern.

    Misplaced priorities hit a nerve.

    WHEN is something going to be done about this??? WHAT can YOU do as a


    doctor???

    Quoted message said:


    The doctors here do nothing but bash alternative medicine RATHER than


    help

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    clean up the mess in their own profession.

    Proving still yet the sad condition and mindset of organized medicine.

    Peter doesn't want to discuss this.

    I am perfectly happy to discuss this - if you seriously want to (see


    below).

    Quoted message said:

    I would point out for starters that enormous effort goes into trying to
    prevent adverse events in medical practice and within hospitals.

    Quoted message said:


    Now if it were something about Hulda Clark or Jan there would be a flood


    of

    Quoted message said:

    posts, sadly there is very little interest in this HUGE problem, which


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    getting worse.

    How on earth would you know how much interest there is in such problems?
    Have you been involved in quality assurance within hospitals? I have.
    Have you computerised your prescribing system so as to help minimise drug
    interactions and other prescribing errors? Most doctors have nowadays, at
    least in my country..

    You know nothing about this subject.

    This is also another of your many hypocrisies. It is clear to all that


    you

    Quoted message said:

    personally couldn't give a fig about medical errors. The more there


    are,

    Quoted message said:

    the better you are pleased. You habitually dredge up anything you can


    find

    Quoted message said:

    that makes proper medicine look bad, because in a peculiar brain mode of
    some alt supporters that somehow justifies alternative medicine being
    riddled with fraud and delusion and the merciless exploitation of patients
    with serious illnesses.

    Well said. It all falls under an Orwellian form which I call AltThink.

    Quoted message said:

    And are you going to warn people to be wary of Hulda if you have a curable
    cancer? If not, why not, and what earthly basis do you have for opposing
    those who do?

    Not Jan. She would never violate the ONE Commandment of ALTThink: Never
    criticize a fellow, or girlie, Altie, unless they are a competitor.

  6. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Misplaced Priorities
    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/10/2004 12:39 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Misplaced Priorities
    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/10/2004 12:26 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:

    <[email hidden]


    u>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > >From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    >
    > >Subject: Ralph Moss looks at new MLM scam
    >
    > Peter is most imterested in this, and is eager to mention Hulda's name,
    but
    > shows no interest in the many needless mistakes and deaths each day.
    Contary to
    > what the *gang* has been saying the errors are increasing.
    >
    >


    http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/10/29/hospitals_report_incr

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > ease_in_errors/
    >
    > Hospitals report increase in errors
    > Leading causes: falls and surgical blunders
    > By Stephen Smith, Globe Staff, 10/29/2003
    >
    > Mistakes reported by Massachusetts hospitals soared by 32 percent


    during

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the
    > past three years, according to a sweeping review of medical errors
    released
    > yesterday by the state Department of Public Health.

    Oh, grow up!!

    Personal attacks, rather than appropriate action, or concern.

    Misplaced priorities hit a nerve.

    WHEN is something going to be done about this??? WHAT can YOU do as a


    doctor???

    Quoted message said:


    The doctors here do nothing but bash alternative medicine RATHER than help
    clean up the mess in their own profession.

    Proving still yet the sad condition and mindset of organized medicine.

    Peter doesn't want to discuss this.

    I am perfectly happy to discuss this - if you seriously want to (see below).
    I would point out for starters that enormous effort goes into trying to
    prevent adverse events in medical practice and within hospitals.

    It isn't working, it isn't working, it isn't working, keep doing the same thing
    over and over and expecting different results.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Now if it were something about Hulda Clark or Jan there would be a flood


    of

    Quoted message said:

    posts, sadly there is very little interest in this HUGE problem, which is
    getting worse.

    How on earth would you know how much interest there is in such problems?

    Sometimes you ask the dumbest questions.

    Ones already answered.

    Very little interest here, more interested in bashing alternative medicine and
    MLM.

    Quoted message said:

    Have you been involved in quality assurance within hospitals? I have.

    And??

    Quoted message said:

    Have you computerised your prescribing system so as to help minimise drug
    interactions and other prescribing errors?

    No, I'm not a doctor, another dumb question.

    Quoted message said:

    Most doctors have nowadays, at
    least in my country..

    Something isn't working. The rate of error is getter worse, not better

    Quoted message said:

    You know nothing about this subject

    I just posted some information. I also know previous discussions, perhaps you
    have forgotten how I ask others to stand up and holler because it appears we
    need an outcry from the public. I also discussed that the medical profession is
    the ONLY one that doesn't have limits on working hours.

    As a matter of fact *I* have done MORE than any single poster here to try and
    get things changed.

    Ben kolb and the sad peicemeal system we have is an example. Dr Wilson and
    Jesse Gelsinger is another.

    Just WHAT have you had to say???? Just WHAT have you done??

    Quoted message said:

    This is also another of your many hypocrisies

    See above which proves you are lying.

    Quoted message said:

    It is clear to all that you
    personally couldn't give a fig about medical errors.

    W R O N G!!!

    Quoted message said:

    The more there are,
    the better you are pleased

    WOW!!!!! Ridiculous.

    Quoted message said:

    You habitually dredge up anything you can find
    that makes proper medicine look bad

    HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    WE HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM, MANY NEEDLESS DEATHS!!!!

    Your gettting angry with me for discussing it, is pathetic.

    Quoted message said:

    because in a peculiar brain mode of
    some alt supporters that somehow justifies alternative medicine being
    riddled with fraud and delusion and the merciless exploitation of patients
    with serious illnesses.

    An EXACTY response Peter Bowditch used when I posted the Ben Kolb death.

    Needless deaths and mistakes are REAL and have nothing whatsoever to do with
    justifing anything.

    Quoted message said:

    And are you going to warn people to be wary of Hulda if you have a curable
    cancer? If not, why not, and what earthly basis do you have for opposing
    those who do?

    Irrelevant.

    However if she was killing people left and right you can bet your bippy, I
    would indeed be concerned and discussing it.

    Rather than get mad, WHY don't you and others want to Even discuss it, let
    along DO SOMETHING!!!!

    You take me to task for posting it is getting worse. And you have the gall to
    tell me to grow up.

    You would be pleased if it all was kept a big secret.

    These are REAL people with REAL families, and the problem is REAL, and is
    getting worse, and all you can do is rant about me for posting it.

    How very childish.

    Google search needless deaths and mistakes [email hidden] 228

    Google search [email hidden] 4

    Your interest is sad.

    Jan

  7. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Misplaced Priorities
    From: [email hidden] (Jan)
    Date: 5/10/2004 7:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    These are REAL people with REAL families, and the problem is REAL, and is
    getting worse, and all you can do is rant about me for posting it.

    simple solution Janster

    you don't trust "conventional medicine??"

    fine...continue with your zappers and your cleanses..

    and cancel your Medicare care so the rest of us don't have to pay to bail YOU
    out when you get something that Hulda can do NADA about...you know ...a REAL
    illness..not one manufactured in your own pointy head..

    no one is FORCING you ..and yours...to participate in what you obviously find
    such fault in

    fine..stay the hell away from MY ER..and cancel your Medicare card..

    hawki.....

  8. <<
    fine..stay the hell away from MY ER..and cancel your Medicare card.. >>

    If she cancels her medicare card, will you cancel your ability to breathe?

    "If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester).

  9. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Misplaced Priorities
    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/10/2004 12:39 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:

    <[email hidden].


    au>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    >Subject: Re: Misplaced Priorities
    >From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    >Date: 5/10/2004 12:26 AM Pacific Standard Time
    >Message-id:

    Quoted message said:

    <[email hidden].


    a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    u>

    Quoted message said:

    >
    >
    >"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >> >From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    >>
    >> >Subject: Ralph Moss looks at new MLM scam
    >>
    >> Peter is most imterested in this, and is eager to mention Hulda's


    name,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >but
    >> shows no interest in the many needless mistakes and deaths each day.
    >Contary to
    >> what the *gang* has been saying the errors are increasing.
    >>
    >>

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/10/29/hospitals_report_incr

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> ease_in_errors/
    >>
    >> Hospitals report increase in errors
    >> Leading causes: falls and surgical blunders
    >> By Stephen Smith, Globe Staff, 10/29/2003
    >>
    >> Mistakes reported by Massachusetts hospitals soared by 32 percent


    during

    Quoted message said:

    >the
    >> past three years, according to a sweeping review of medical errors
    >released
    >> yesterday by the state Department of Public Health.
    >
    >Oh, grow up!!

    Personal attacks, rather than appropriate action, or concern.

    Misplaced priorities hit a nerve.

    WHEN is something going to be done about this??? WHAT can YOU do as a


    doctor???

    Quoted message said:


    The doctors here do nothing but bash alternative medicine RATHER than


    help

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    clean up the mess in their own profession.

    Proving still yet the sad condition and mindset of organized medicine.

    Peter doesn't want to discuss this.

    I am perfectly happy to discuss this - if you seriously want to (see


    below).

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I would point out for starters that enormous effort goes into trying to
    prevent adverse events in medical practice and within hospitals.

    It isn't working, it isn't working, it isn't working, keep doing the same


    thing

    Quoted message said:

    over and over and expecting different results.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Now if it were something about Hulda Clark or Jan there would be a


    flood

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of

    Quoted message said:

    posts, sadly there is very little interest in this HUGE problem, which


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    getting worse.


    Quoted message said:


    However if she was killing people left and right you can bet your bippy, I
    would indeed be concerned and discussing it.

    She is responsible for the deaths of patients who have a good chance of
    being cured by conventional treatments. She is rarely the sole responsible
    person. Cancer patients using "alternatives" use lots of different
    treatments at once. They have to. The conventions and standards that
    'alternative' medicine accepts as the norm, and that are defended to the
    death by all the Jan Drews, deny them the right to serious infrormation
    about the true results of "alternative" treatments. So for every
    unnecessary death there are a number of quacks and a number of AM barrackers
    including Jan Drews who are to blame.

    If you don't believe me that people are dying needlessly or have forgotten
    the small sample of them that get into the newspapers, contact me privately
    and I will tell you where to look.

    And I stand behind my claim that you don't care a fig for adverse
    consequences within medicine.

    As for me, I did my bit in the hospitals I was involved with and know that
    they will be continuing to address the problem. Now my interests, as is my
    right, lie elsewhere. There is certainly nothing I can do about anything
    that occurs in American or Canadian hospitals, no matter how disastrous, and
    would you bear that in mind next time you choose to lay Ben Kolb or any
    other problem at my door. ..

    Peter Moran.

  10. Quoted message said:

    How very childish.

    Google search needless deaths and mistakes [email hidden] 228

    Google search [email hidden] 4

    Your interest is sad.

    Jan

    Groups Results 1 - 20 of about 684 English messages for stool OR feces OR [censored]
    author:[email hidden].

    Groups Results 1 - 20 of about 2,310 English messages for liar
    author:[email hidden]

    Results 1 - 20 of about 270 English messages for satan
    author:[email hidden]

  11. "DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    <<
    fine..stay the hell away from MY ER..and cancel your Medicare card.. >>

    If she cancels her medicare card, will you cancel your ability to breathe?

    Debbee, just because you cancelled your ability to think and reason does not
    mean we have to shut down other bodily functions.

  12. [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Misplaced Priorities
    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/10/2004 12:39 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    >Subject: Re: Misplaced Priorities
    >From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    >Date: 5/10/2004 12:26 AM Pacific Standard Time
    >Message-id:

    <[email hidden]


    u>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >
    >
    >"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >> >From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> >Subject: Ralph Moss looks at new MLM scam
    >>
    >> Peter is most imterested in this, and is eager to mention Hulda's name,


    but

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> shows no interest in the many needless mistakes and deaths each day.


    Contary to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> what the *gang* has been saying the errors are increasing.
    >>
    >>


    http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/10/29/hospitals_report_incr

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> ease_in_errors/
    >>
    >> Hospitals report increase in errors
    >> Leading causes: falls and surgical blunders
    >> By Stephen Smith, Globe Staff, 10/29/2003
    >>
    >> Mistakes reported by Massachusetts hospitals soared by 32 percent


    during
    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> past three years, according to a sweeping review of medical errors


    released

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> yesterday by the state Department of Public Health.
    >
    >Oh, grow up!!

    Personal attacks, rather than appropriate action, or concern.

    Misplaced priorities hit a nerve.

    WHEN is something going to be done about this??? WHAT can YOU do as a


    doctor???

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    The doctors here do nothing but bash alternative medicine RATHER than help
    clean up the mess in their own profession.

    Proving still yet the sad condition and mindset of organized medicine.

    Peter doesn't want to discuss this.

    I am perfectly happy to discuss this - if you seriously want to (see below).
    I would point out for starters that enormous effort goes into trying to
    prevent adverse events in medical practice and within hospitals.

    It isn't working, it isn't working, it isn't working, keep doing the same thing
    over and over and expecting different results.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Now if it were something about Hulda Clark or Jan there would be a flood


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    posts, sadly there is very little interest in this HUGE problem, which is
    getting worse.

    How on earth would you know how much interest there is in such problems?

    Sometimes you ask the dumbest questions.

    Ones already answered.

    Very little interest here, more interested in bashing alternative medicine and
    MLM.

    Quoted message said:

    Have you been involved in quality assurance within hospitals? I have.

    And??

    Quoted message said:

    Have you computerised your prescribing system so as to help minimise drug
    interactions and other prescribing errors?

    No, I'm not a doctor, another dumb question.

    Quoted message said:

    Most doctors have nowadays, at
    least in my country..

    Something isn't working. The rate of error is getter worse, not better

    Quoted message said:

    You know nothing about this subject

    I just posted some information. I also know previous discussions, perhaps you
    have forgotten how I ask others to stand up and holler because it appears we
    need an outcry from the public. I also discussed that the medical profession is
    the ONLY one that doesn't have limits on working hours.

    As a matter of fact *I* have done MORE than any single poster here to try and
    get things changed.

    And Jan's postings have done *what* to improve all these many needless
    deaths & mistakes?

    Has she organized her many friends at the RV park & mounted a campaign
    to
    reform health care? Why not? Is she simply waiting for someone else
    to do
    it? Has she recruited all the millions of supposedly outraged
    citizens of
    the U.S. to demand that changes be made? Has she used her economic
    clout by
    refusing to utilize conventional medicine & its tools like
    pharmaceuticals?
    Has she financed any educational programs to inform the general public
    (not
    just those reading a limited interest newsgroup on the 'net) about the
    EEEEVILS of mainstream health care -- or is she content to wait for TV
    execs
    to air such information when ratings need a boost? Has she
    participated in
    any research projects aimed at reducing medical mistakes? Where are
    her
    interviews with everyone who was involved with the cases she
    repeatedly
    cites here -- surely such information would be of value in her quest?
    Has
    she done much more than call the efforts of concientious health care
    providers part of a big conspiracy & based on "ego"? Has she tapped
    into
    her years of experience as a business owner to develop answers to the
    problems of the business of health care, which is tied inextricably to
    the
    practice of conventional & alt. medicine?

    I've read Jan's complaints about conventional health care, & nobody
    denies
    there are mistakes made. Now, the next step is for Jan to move to
    step
    two -- a solution. A mission involves identifying a problem, followed
    by
    formulating a plan to remedy the situation to reach the desired
    outcome &
    doing what it takes to carry out the plan. A mission to help others
    "regain
    their health" or to stop "needless deaths & mistakes" falls way short
    if the
    only step taken is complaining about a situation -- especially when
    the
    complaining is selective & doesn't continually bemoan the mistakes of
    alt.
    health care as well as the admission that there are incidents of
    incompetence, greed, & misinformation by both alt. & conventional
    medicine.

    What *exactly* is Jan doing to change our health care picture? What
    changes
    are being formulated as a result of Jan's efforts? What is Jan's step
    2?
    To let everyone else brainstorm the solutions? To place the burden of
    changing what she claims is evil on others while simply paying lip
    service
    to her mission of helping people? To blame others for progress she
    deems
    not fast enough while her participation is self restricted to
    complaining?

    Let's hear Jan's solutions. Let's hear how she has been working to
    change
    the "piecemeal system at best" she complains about. Let's hear her
    proposed
    policies & procedures to reduce mistakes in ALL health care. Let's
    hear her
    ideas for eliminating unethical practices in research, health care
    facilities, & health insurance (which cannot be disregarded in the
    U.S.
    health care system).

    I'd actually look forward to hearing Jan's step 2. Anyone with so
    much to
    say WRT a problem MUST be able to come up with solutions. Mind you,
    not
    vague goals -- but specific plans to follow & how to follow them --
    including considerations like legalities, economics, organization,
    etc.

    ** I've posted the above more than once. Jan always stays silent when
    it's time to come up with solutions. She doesn't need to be a doctor
    to put together ideas to remedy the situations she complains about so
    often. But just complaining about a problem is much easier to do, as
    Jan demonstrates.....

  13. Quoted message said:

    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/11/2004 12:10 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    She is responsible for the deaths of patients who have a good chance of
    being cured by conventional treatments.

    Quite wrong as usual, most patients have already been through the gamet of
    conventional medicne and told to go home and get things in order.

    Quoted message said:

    She is rarely the sole responsible
    person. Cancer patients using "alternatives" use lots of different
    treatments at once. They have to.

    Such nonsense.

    Quoted message said:

    The conventions and standards that
    'alternative' medicine accepts as the norm, and that are defended to the
    death by all the Jan Drews,

    Listing the use of cancer methods being used, is hardly defending it to death.

    Quoted message said:

    deny them the right to serious infrormation
    about the true results of "alternative" treatments

    LOL, yes indeedy people are being denied.

    Quoted message said:

    So for every
    unnecessary death there are a number of quacks and a number of AM barrackers
    including Jan Drews who are to blame.

    Umm, so far I have defended something to death, denied people to have rights,
    and now am to blame for a number of unnecssary deaths.

    Phew!!

    When you get it the rant mode, you make a complete fool of yourself.

    Quoted message said:


    If you don't believe me

    Now what ever would give you the idea, I wouldn't believe you, after the above
    display of the crimminal Jan Drew.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    And I stand behind my claim that you don't care a fig for adverse
    consequences within medicine.

    Not surprised, you also deny all the evidence and studies that amalgams can and
    do cause mercury poisoning.

    You are simply angry when the truth is posted of the errors getting worse.

    Attack the messenger is a favorite of organzied medicine.

    Quoted message said:

    As for me, I did my bit in the hospitals I was involved with and know that
    they will be continuing to address the problem. Now my interests, as is my
    right, lie elsewhere. There is certainly nothing I can do about anything


    that occurs in American or Canadian hospitals, no matter how disastrous, and
    would you bear that in mind next time you choose to lay Ben Kolb or any other
    problem at my door. ..
    Ues, there is something you can do, stay calm and don't go into a bashing Jan
    rant when I post the problems.

    Then you can quit LYING.

    For starters.

    Jan

  14. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/11/2004 12:10 AM Pacific Standard Time


    Quite wrong as usual, most patients have already been through the gamet of
    conventional medicne and told to go home and get things in order.

    How many people are 'cured' via alternative treatment?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    deny them the right to serious infrormation
    about the true results of "alternative" treatments

    LOL, yes indeedy people are being denied.

    How are people being denied information?

  15. Quoted message said:


    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/11/2004 12:10 AM Pacific Standard Time


    Quite wrong as usual, most patients have already been through the gamet of
    conventional medicne and told to go home and get things in order.

    How many people are 'cured' via alternative treatment?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    deny them the right to serious infrormation
    about the true results of "alternative" treatments

    LOL, yes indeedy people are being denied.

    How are people being denied information?

    By censorship in pro-alt forums/lists/groups, by "peer" pressure in MLM
    meetings, healthfood stores, and internally by burying one's head in the sand.
    All the denial of information on the alternative treatments is coming from the
    alternative community who are protecting their vested financial interests from
    the truth.

    Sad, that.

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.