Dr Barrett comment

Quoted message said:

Subject: Dr Barrett comment
From: Ilena Rose [email hidden]
Date: 4/21/2004 4:56 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Would you please give the source for this quote from the King of
Quackery himself?

In my ever humble opinion ... he's wrong about MCS, he's wrong about
chelation, he's wrong about acupuncture ... just as he was wrong about
me ... (to name but a few.)

Indeed. I would like to see him in a room full of our service men and claim GWS
isn't real.

The sad part is, he is denying these diseases so the chemical and insurance
companies won't have to pay. He isn't protecting the public, he is protecting
EOM.

Jan

Quoted message said:

www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Dr Barrett comment
From: Ilena Rose [email hidden]
Date: 4/21/2004 4:56 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Would you please give the source for this quote from the King of
Quackery himself?

In my ever humble opinion ... he's wrong about MCS, he's wrong about
chelation, he's wrong about acupuncture ... just as he was wrong about
me ... (to name but a few.)

Indeed. I would like to see him in a room full of our service men and

claim GWS

Quoted message said:

isn't real.

The sad part is, he is denying these diseases so the chemical and

insurance

Quoted message said:

companies won't have to pay. He isn't protecting the public, he is

protecting

Quoted message said:

EOM.

Hi Jan. Other than your idle speculation, can you post any actual proof that
you are correct in you claim about Barrett's protective motives?

Thanks!

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ilena Rose said:

Would you please give the source for this quote from the King of
Quackery himself?

In my ever humble opinion ... he's wrong about MCS,

I'm not conversant enough with the data to know for sure if Barrett's
wrong about MCS or not, but I suspect he's probably not.

Quoted message said:

he's wrong about
chelation,

I do know enough about the data on chelation to conclude that Barrett's
definitely NOT wrong about it. Every randomized, double-blind study done
thus far save one (which was very small, poorly designed, and never
followed up on) has failed to show any effect of chelation therapy
distinguishable from placebo on the symptoms of coronary artery disease
or peripheral vascular disease. No study thus far done has ever been
able to show that chelation therapy can decrease the size of
atherosclerotic plaques, as its adherents claim it can.

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.

[Snip]

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

<< I do know enough about the data on chelation to conclude that Barrett's
definitely NOT wrong about it. Every randomized, double-blind study done
thus far save one (which was very small, poorly designed, and never
followed up on) has failed to show any effect of chelation therapy
distinguishable from placebo on the symptoms of coronary artery disease
or peripheral vascular disease. No study thus far done has ever been
able to show that chelation therapy can decrease the size of
atherosclerotic plaques, as its adherents claim it can.

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.

[Snip]

--
Orac

Tell us all you know about chelation, Orac, and how you gained this personal
experience. I am not talking about reading studies, or information. I am
talking about actual experience using chelation on your own body. I want to
know what you have personally used, (what forms of chelation), and why you
would make such a foolish statement about chelation, because I personally know
differently.....I've had personal experience, and my conventional medical
doctor prescribed the chelation......and has the results that it does work.

"If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester).

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dr Barrett comment
From: [email hidden] (DEBBEE1023)
Date: 4/24/2004 8:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.

Quoted message said:

I am
talking about actual experience using chelation on your own body. I want to

Quoted message said:

I personally know
differently.....I've had personal experience, and my convention

the statement above ''does not work for athersclerosis" is the issue

chelation DOES work for heavy metals..ie lead..iron..mercury

apples and oranges

hawki.....

In article <[email hidden]>,

(DEBBEE1023) said:

<< I do know enough about the data on chelation to conclude that Barrett's
definitely NOT wrong about it. Every randomized, double-blind study done
thus far save one (which was very small, poorly designed, and never
followed up on) has failed to show any effect of chelation therapy
distinguishable from placebo on the symptoms of coronary artery disease
or peripheral vascular disease. No study thus far done has ever been
able to show that chelation therapy can decrease the size of
atherosclerotic plaques, as its adherents claim it can.

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.
Orac

Tell us all you know about chelation, Orac, and how you gained this personal
experience. I am not talking about reading studies, or information. I am
talking about actual experience using chelation on your own body. I want to
know what you have personally used, (what forms of chelation), and why you
would make such a foolish statement about chelation, because I personally
know
differently.....I've had personal experience, and my conventional medical
doctor prescribed the chelation......and has the results that it does work.

You place way too much emphasis on personal experience and not nearly
enough emphasis on actual data. For instance, I have no personal
experience actually jumping off the roof of a skyscraper, but I know
that there would be a very, very close to 100% likelihood of my dying if
I were to do so. I know this because we have very good data for fatality
rates for falls as a function of distance fallen, and for adults these
fatality rates rapidly approach 100% as the fall goes higher than five
stories or so, and that survival is almost zero for falls higher than 10
stories or so.

If you don't believe the above data and would prefer to rely on the
"personal experience" of jumping out of a high building to determine
what would happen, you are, of course, welcome to do so. Me, I'll stick
with the data here.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Hawki63) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dr Barrett comment
From: [email hidden] (DEBBEE1023)
Date: 4/24/2004 8:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.

Quoted message said:

I am
talking about actual experience using chelation on your own body. I want to

Quoted message said:

I personally know
differently.....I've had personal experience, and my convention

the statement above ''does not work for athersclerosis" is the issue

chelation DOES work for heavy metals..ie lead..iron..mercury

apples and oranges

Good point. When I say that chelation therapy doesn't work, I'm careful
to say that it doesn't work for atherosclerosis. As you point out, it
does work for heavy metal poisoning. Of course, the problem here is that
alties attribute all sorts of diseases to heavy metal poisoning that is
never proven or documented and that doesn't exist.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

DEBBEE1023 said:

Quoted message said:

<< I do know enough about the data on chelation to conclude that Barrett's
definitely NOT wrong about it. Every randomized, double-blind study done
thus far save one (which was very small, poorly designed, and never
followed up on) has failed to show any effect of chelation therapy
distinguishable from placebo on the symptoms of coronary artery disease
or peripheral vascular disease. No study thus far done has ever been
able to show that chelation therapy can decrease the size of
atherosclerotic plaques, as its adherents claim it can.

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.

[Snip]

--
Orac

Tell us all you know about chelation, Orac, and how you gained this personal
experience. I am not talking about reading studies, or information. I am
talking about actual experience using chelation on your own body. I want to
know what you have personally used, (what forms of chelation), and why you
would make such a foolish statement about chelation, because I personally know
differently.....I've had personal experience, and my conventional medical
doctor prescribed the chelation......and has the results that it does work.

Boy, ain't that the essence of the altie-nitwit mindset (I use the
word "mind" advisedly)? "I used treatment X and afterwards I got
better, so (a) I know that the treatment was responsible, and (b)
it'll work for anyone, and (c) my experience trumps any number of
double-blind studies."

Guess what, Debbee? You're still a fool and you haven't proved a
thing. In the double-blind tests, many of the participants did feel
better afterwards. About the same percentage of those who got the
placebo versus the chelation saw the improvement. Conclusion: it
was being part of the treatment group, not the chelation, that made
the difference.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Chelation does work. I have experienced it myself orally and seen a few
cases of IV chelation that have done health miracles for the subjects.

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<< I do know enough about the data on chelation to conclude that Barrett's
definitely NOT wrong about it. Every randomized, double-blind study done
thus far save one (which was very small, poorly designed, and never
followed up on) has failed to show any effect of chelation therapy
distinguishable from placebo on the symptoms of coronary artery disease
or peripheral vascular disease. No study thus far done has ever been
able to show that chelation therapy can decrease the size of
atherosclerotic plaques, as its adherents claim it can.

Bottom line: Chelation doesn't work for atherosclerosis.

[Snip]

--
Orac

Tell us all you know about chelation, Orac, and how you gained this

personal

Quoted message said:

experience. I am not talking about reading studies, or information. I am
talking about actual experience using chelation on your own body. I want

to

Quoted message said:

know what you have personally used, (what forms of chelation), and why you
would make such a foolish statement about chelation, because I personally

know

Quoted message said:

differently.....I've had personal experience, and my conventional medical
doctor prescribed the chelation......and has the results that it does

work.

Quoted message said:

"If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie

Winchester).

Quoted message said: