Bottom Bracket treads

Bob Downie said:

Hi Folks

I am sure that this has been covered before but I would be v. grateful
for some re-assurance.

I have acquired an old Falcon Rapier which I plan to convert to a
fixed wheeler. I have managed to disassemble the whole bike with the
exception of the fixed cup on the bottom bracket which is well and
truly tight.

My question is this. According to Sheldon
(http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html) British bikes
should have a left-hand (reverse) thread on the fixed cup. Can anyone
confirm this before I proceed to apply serious force to it (clamp cup
in vice and turn frame)? Once I do that I am on the point of no
return.

Sheldon's info is correct.

Quoted message said:

As a subsidiary question, does any one know of a better way of
shifting a tight fixed cup other than putting it in a vice and using
the frame as a lever?

Bike shops have special tools plus the experience to know the difference
between a tight BB and a seized BB.

~PB

Bob Downie BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

Hi Folks

Quoted message said:

I am sure that this has been covered before but I would be v. grateful
for some re-assurance.

Quoted message said:

I have acquired an old Falcon Rapier which I plan to convert to a fixed
wheeler. I have managed to disassemble the whole bike with the exception
of the fixed cup on the bottom bracket which is well and truly tight.

Quoted message said:

My question is this. According to Sheldon
(http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html) British bikes should
have a left-hand (reverse) thread on the fixed cup. Can anyone confirm
this before I proceed to apply serious force to it (clamp cup in vice
and turn frame)? Once I do that I am on the point of no return.

If you've already removed all the other internals, then looking into
the other side with a good torch and possibly some optical assistnace
should allow you to see the intnernal thread well enough to see which
way it goes.

Quoted message said:

As a subsidiary question, does any one know of a better way of shifting
a tight fixed cup other than putting it in a vice and using the frame as
a lever?

Let it soak for a while in some freeing liquid, then wrap the bottom
bracket in a cloth soaked in boiling water for several seconds.

It's not better, but one of those old-fashioned engineer's adjustable
spanners where the adjuster runs the whole length of the handle gives
a much better grip on this kind of thing than the modern sloppy
versions. It also usually has flat sides, which make it much easier to
keep it properly located on the grip.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

in message <[email hidden]>, Bob Downie

('BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk') said:

Hi Folks

I am sure that this has been covered before but I would be v. grateful
for some re-assurance.

I have acquired an old Falcon Rapier which I plan to convert to a fixed
wheeler. I have managed to disassemble the whole bike with the
exception of the fixed cup on the bottom bracket which is well and
truly tight.

My question is this. According to Sheldon
(http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html) British bikes should
have a left-hand (reverse) thread on the fixed cup. Can anyone confirm
this before I proceed to apply serious force to it (clamp cup in vice
and turn frame)? Once I do that I am on the point of no return.

I would guess 'British' thread because it's overwhelmingly the most
common even for non-British bikes. But as Chris says you may be able to
have a look with an appropriate light and mirror (a dentists' mirror is
an exceedingly useful thing to have in the toolbox).

Quoted message said:

As a subsidiary question, does any one know of a better way of shifting
a tight fixed cup other than putting it in a vice and using the frame
as a lever?

Marinating in Plus-gas (proprietary penetrating oil) for twelve hours
before hand is a great help.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; single speed mountain bikes: for people who cycle on flat mountains.

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 10:43:23 +0100, Bob Downie

BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

As a subsidiary question, does any one know of a better way of shifting
a tight fixed cup other than putting it in a vice and using the frame as
a lever?

Yes. See <http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html>

Scroll down to Fixed Cup Tools.

I've done this trick and it's really good. The whole getting
something for nothing appeals to the tight fisted git in me. I used an
M16 nut and bolt in place of Sheldon's imperial stuff.

Tim

Thanks to all who replied.

In the end want of big tools and a certain reluctance to risk knackering
the frame induced me to take said frame to the LBS who, for the princely
sum of 5 Scottish pounds, performed the necessary.

Now about those headset cups?

Cheers
--
Bob Downie
Downie GeoScience Ltd.
please remove #n0spam# to reply directly

In article <[email hidden]>, Bob Downie

BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

In the end want of big tools and a certain reluctance to risk
knackering the frame induced me to take said frame to the LBS who,
for the princely sum of 5 Scottish pounds, performed the necessary.

OMG there is another miserly parsimonious LBS in Scotland :-))

Or just perhaps someone who looks after the customer?

--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:20:43 +0100, Bob Downie

BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

Thanks to all who replied.

In the end want of big tools and a certain reluctance to risk knackering
the frame induced me to take said frame to the LBS who, for the princely
sum of 5 Scottish pounds, performed the necessary.

Huurah. Support your LBS.

Quoted message said:

Now about those headset cups?

Installing or removing?

The LBS should have tools for both, price around the same. Removing
is easier, IMO, than installing, for the home mechanic, requiring a
hammer, gentle persuasion and an old screw driver, or, as they used to
say in Haynes manuals "a suitable sized piece of tubing to act as a
drift".

Tim

Tim Hall said:

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:20:43 +0100, Bob Downie

BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

Thanks to all who replied.

In the end want of big tools and a certain reluctance to risk knackering
the frame induced me to take said frame to the LBS who, for the princely
sum of 5 Scottish pounds, performed the necessary.

Huurah. Support your LBS.

Quoted message said:

Now about those headset cups?

Installing or removing?

The LBS should have tools for both, price around the same. Removing
is easier, IMO, than installing, for the home mechanic, requiring a
hammer, gentle persuasion and an old screw driver, or, as they used to
say in Haynes manuals "a suitable sized piece of tubing to act as a
drift".

Both are easy.

Removing: get a suitable sized piece of tube.Place against the inside
edge of the cup you want to remove. Tap with hammer. Shift drift to the
other side. Tap again. Continue gently removing the headset.

installing: IMPORTANT: Ensure your headset has been correctly reamed
and faced otherwise grief may occur in the short or long term.
The error-free way is to use a headset press. The alternative works if
done with care on solid metal headsets.
Support the head tube on a suitable soft block (lump of wood does for
me). Place new headset cup on the correct spot. It may be slightly
chamfered which makes this easier. A thin smear of lubricant will also
help.
Place a reasonable solid bit of wood (6 inches of a 2x4 does me) flat
on top of the headset and tap gently with a large hammer. Continue
carefully, ensuring the headset goes in straight (hence the gentle
taps). It should end up sat flush against the end of the tube.

Job done.

...d

David Martin said:

Place a reasonable solid bit of wood (6 inches of a 2x4 does me) flat
on top of the headset and tap gently with a large hammer. Continue
carefully, ensuring the headset goes in straight (hence the gentle
taps). It should end up sat flush against the end of the tube.

Not such a good idea on a lightweight alloy cup.

~PB

David Martin said:

The error-free way is to use a headset press. The alternative works if
done with care on solid metal headsets.

/snip

Sorry I missed the "solid metal" bit before I posted my previous reply.
However, some headsets in some frames are such a tight fit that this
method can be difficult with any headset. The Cyclus headset press costs
around £30 to £35 and makes the job so much easier and safer. Or the LBS
should do it for a tenner or whatever.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

David Martin wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

The Cyclus headset press costs
around £30 to £35 and makes the job so much easier and safer. Or theLBS
should do it for a tenner or whatever.

~PB

I know it's not quite the done thing, but I've been getting away with
using a large long (longer than head-tube) bolt , nut and two large
(larger diameter than headset cups) thick washers. Onto the bolt,
thread a washer, the bottom cup, head tube, top cup, washer and nut.
Tighten up slowly, ensuring that everything remains square. Works fine
for me, costs a couple of bob for a bolt/nut/washers if you don't have
em to hand.

On bikes with a shorter head tube, I've also put the lot into a large
bench vise... stop when cups are seated, or prepare for interesting
results.

Regards,

bookieb

Quoted message said:

I know it's not quite the done thing, but I've been getting away with
using a large long (longer than head-tube) bolt , nut and two large
(larger diameter than headset cups) thick washers. Onto the bolt,
thread a washer, the bottom cup, head tube, top cup, washer and nut.
Tighten up slowly, ensuring that everything remains square. Works fine
for me, costs a couple of bob for a bolt/nut/washers if you don't have
em to hand.

I've been known to do something similar when I don't have access to the
correct tools. I've added a few ingredients to the recipe, though. I use
sockets from my socket set to push the inside of the bearing cups
(rather than on the edges, which can cause deformation of the bearing
surfaces), and also as centering spacers.

JimP

"Sandy Morton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Bob Downie

BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

In the end want of big tools and a certain reluctance to risk
knackering the frame induced me to take said frame to the LBS who,
for the princely sum of 5 Scottish pounds, performed the necessary.

OMG there is another miserly parsimonious LBS in Scotland :-))

Or just perhaps someone who looks after the customer?

I know of another one. My friend and I were cycling up from Troon for a
foot race around some island or other last year and he broke a spoke on the
way up. LBS on the island fixed it for nowt while we were running round the
island.

Nice chap, can't remember his name but I think it began with an "M". ;-)

Tim

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim Downie

Quoted message said:

I know of another one. My friend and I were cycling up from Troon
for a foot race around some island or other last year and he broke
a spoke on the way up. LBS on the island fixed it for nowt while
we were running round the island.

IMMIC you deserved it for cycling and running on a day when the
weather was less than perfect!

Quoted message said:

Nice chap, can't remember his name but I think it began with an
"M". ;-)

Blush.

"Sandy Morton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim Downie

Quoted message said:

I know of another one. My friend and I were cycling up from Troon
for a foot race around some island or other last year and he broke
a spoke on the way up. LBS on the island fixed it for nowt while
we were running round the island.

IMMIC you deserved it for cycling and running on a day when the
weather was less than perfect!

The ride up and the run were okay but the ride back was horrid! Head on
into the wind and driving rain all the way back. I think I've just about
warmed up again. ;-)

Anyway, the repair was much appreciated. Many thanks.

Tim