broken spokes...

Joe Canuck said:

How serious is it to ride with 3 broken spokes on the rear wheel?

I've already done about 10 miles on the wheel with the three broken spokes
without incident... although I didn't realize at the time that the rear
brake pad was rubbing on the rim.

Hmm, not good. Front wheel or rear? A front wheel would be worse because if
it collapses, you will have a nasty crash.

Did the spokes all break at once because of an accident? Or one at a time?
If they're breaking one at a time, you may break more on your way to the
LBS.

Quoted message said:

I'm at home now, but need to go another 10 miles to reach the LBS for
spoke replacement and truing. I'm thinking it should be relatively safe
unless something catastrophic happens.

I don't have a car. Should I play it safe and call a taxi?

If it didn't get worse over the last 10 miles (and if you're feeling lucky),
you might try removing or tieing up the broken spokes so they don't get
tangled up in something, and ride s-l-o-w-l-y to the LBS. If your insurance
isn't paid up, take the taxi.

Let us know how you make out.

Art Harris

"Joe Canuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How serious is it to ride with 3 broken spokes on the rear wheel?

I've already done about 10 miles on the wheel with the three broken spokes
without incident... although I didn't realize at the time that the rear
brake pad was rubbing on the rim.

I'm at home now, but need to go another 10 miles to reach the LBS for
spoke replacement and truing. I'm thinking it should be relatively safe
unless something catastrophic happens.

I don't have a car. Should I play it safe and call a taxi?

Been there, done that...

The biggest risk is that the wheel will spontaneously "taco", in which case
you could be looking at wheel <replacement> as opposed to repair. IMHO, if
the 3 spokes aren't from the same quadrant of the wheel, you should be ok to
get to your LBS.

YMMV 😉

brian.

I submit that on or about Sat, 01 Oct 2005 15:10:00 -0400, the person
known to the court as Joe Canuck <[email protected]> made a
statement (<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's bundle)
to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

How serious is it to ride with 3 broken spokes on the rear wheel?

More will probably break. Get it fixed ASAP - but you can probably
ride it to the bike shop :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Joe Canuck said:

How serious is it to ride with 3 broken spokes on the rear wheel?

Quoted message said:

I've already done about 10 miles on the wheel with the three broken
spokes without incident... although I didn't realize at the time
that the rear brake pad was rubbing on the rim.

If it was ridable even with a slight brake drag, your wheel wasn't off
trueness as much as wheels generally get with even one broken spoke on
the right side. Your wheel must be fairly loose so that the natural
true rim shape was not deformed by spokes pulling it off center.

Quoted message said:

I'm at home now, but need to go another 10 miles to reach the LBS
for spoke replacement and truing. I'm thinking it should be
relatively safe unless something catastrophic happens.

This is probably not a wheel that you should ride on rough roads but a
trip to the bicycle shop shouldn't cause a problem if you have already
put a few miles on it like this.

Quoted message said:

I don't have a car. Should I play it safe and call a taxi?

No, but you should get to the point where you can replace spokes
yourself and true the wheel to reasonable tension. How long have you
been using this bicycle... that is, how many miles do your wheels have
in use?

Jobst Brandt

Arthur Harris said:

Joe Canuck said:

How serious is it to ride with 3 broken spokes on the rear wheel?

I've already done about 10 miles on the wheel with the three broken spokes
without incident... although I didn't realize at the time that the rear
brake pad was rubbing on the rim.

Hmm, not good. Front wheel or rear? A front wheel would be worse because if
it collapses, you will have a nasty crash.

Rear wheel.

Quoted message said:

Did the spokes all break at once because of an accident? Or one at a time?
If they're breaking one at a time, you may break more on your way to the
LBS.

I think they went all at once with a blast, sounded like someone
knocking the frame of the bike with a solid lock.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm at home now, but need to go another 10 miles to reach the LBS for
spoke replacement and truing. I'm thinking it should be relatively safe
unless something catastrophic happens.

I don't have a car. Should I play it safe and call a taxi?

If it didn't get worse over the last 10 miles (and if you're feeling lucky),
you might try removing or tieing up the broken spokes so they don't get
tangled up in something, and ride s-l-o-w-l-y to the LBS. If your insurance
isn't paid up, take the taxi.

Let us know how you make out.

Art Harris

I will. 🙂

Brian Sanderson said:

"Joe Canuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How serious is it to ride with 3 broken spokes on the rear wheel?

I've already done about 10 miles on the wheel with the three broken spokes
without incident... although I didn't realize at the time that the rear
brake pad was rubbing on the rim.

I'm at home now, but need to go another 10 miles to reach the LBS for
spoke replacement and truing. I'm thinking it should be relatively safe
unless something catastrophic happens.

I don't have a car. Should I play it safe and call a taxi?

Been there, done that...

The biggest risk is that the wheel will spontaneously "taco", in which case
you could be looking at wheel <replacement> as opposed to repair. IMHO, if
the 3 spokes aren't from the same quadrant of the wheel, you should be ok to
get to your LBS.

YMMV 😉

brian.

2 spokes in one quadrant, with the other one over on the other side of
the wheel.

Quoted message said:

Joe Canuck said:

How serious is it to ride with 3 broken spokes on the rear wheel?

Quoted message said:

I've already done about 10 miles on the wheel with the three broken
spokes without incident... although I didn't realize at the time
that the rear brake pad was rubbing on the rim.

If it was ridable even with a slight brake drag, your wheel wasn't off
trueness as much as wheels generally get with even one broken spoke on
the right side. Your wheel must be fairly loose so that the natural
true rim shape was not deformed by spokes pulling it off center.

Quoted message said:

I'm at home now, but need to go another 10 miles to reach the LBS
for spoke replacement and truing. I'm thinking it should be
relatively safe unless something catastrophic happens.

This is probably not a wheel that you should ride on rough roads but a
trip to the bicycle shop shouldn't cause a problem if you have already
put a few miles on it like this.

Quoted message said:

I don't have a car. Should I play it safe and call a taxi?

No, but you should get to the point where you can replace spokes
yourself and true the wheel to reasonable tension. How long have you
been using this bicycle... that is, how many miles do your wheels have
in use?

The wheels have 1500 miles since May 2000 on a Giant Yukon

It is a mountain bike that was never used as such, but rather adapted to
urban use on pavement and some gravel.

The only harsh treatment, relatively speaking, has been dropping off
curbs on a regular basis where that rear wheel likely hits the ground
fairly hard. I'm 230 lbs.

Agreed on learning the repairs. I've never had a failure, so I suppose
I've been extremely lucky.

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 17:02:08 -0400, Joe Canuck

[email protected] said:

The wheels have 1500 miles since May 2000 on a Giant Yukon

It is a mountain bike that was never used as such, but rather adapted to
urban use on pavement and some gravel.

The only harsh treatment, relatively speaking, has been dropping off
curbs on a regular basis where that rear wheel likely hits the ground
fairly hard. I'm 230 lbs.

At 230lbs I would -not- recommend jumping off curbs "fairly hard". Any
reason you feel you need to do this? You do realize that a $200-300 bike
does not, (imo) have the quality of shocks that would support this kind of
treatment. I'd avoid it in the future or learn how to jump up on the curb
so that you land both wheels, lightly. ;-)

jj

jj said:

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 17:02:08 -0400, Joe Canuck

[email protected] said:

The wheels have 1500 miles since May 2000 on a Giant Yukon

It is a mountain bike that was never used as such, but rather adapted to
urban use on pavement and some gravel.

The only harsh treatment, relatively speaking, has been dropping off
curbs on a regular basis where that rear wheel likely hits the ground
fairly hard. I'm 230 lbs.

At 230lbs I would -not- recommend jumping off curbs "fairly hard". Any
reason you feel you need to do this? You do realize that a $200-300 bike
does not, (imo) have the quality of shocks that would support this kind of
treatment. I'd avoid it in the future or learn how to jump up on the curb
so that you land both wheels, lightly. ;-)

jj

Well, "jumping" was the wrong word... riding off curbs is likely a
better phrase to describe what happens. It is about a 6 to 8" drop that
I ride over slow and drop down to the lower surface. I'm by no means
flying through the air. 🙂

Are the bikes that fragile these days that a so called "mountain bike"
at $800 CDN cannot drop slowly off a 6 - 8" inch drop without eventually
suffering a mechanical failure?

If so, I'll definitely stop. BTW, the bike is a hardtail... no rear
suspension.

In Message-ID:<[email hidden]> posted on Sat, 01 Oct

2005 17:53:32 -0400 said:

jj said:

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 17:02:08 -0400, Joe Canuck

[email protected] said:

The wheels have 1500 miles since May 2000 on a Giant Yukon

It is a mountain bike that was never used as such, but rather adapted to
urban use on pavement and some gravel.

The only harsh treatment, relatively speaking, has been dropping off
curbs on a regular basis where that rear wheel likely hits the ground
fairly hard. I'm 230 lbs.

At 230lbs I would -not- recommend jumping off curbs "fairly hard". Any
reason you feel you need to do this? You do realize that a $200-300 bike
does not, (imo) have the quality of shocks that would support this kind of
treatment. I'd avoid it in the future or learn how to jump up on the curb
so that you land both wheels, lightly. ;-)

jj

Well, "jumping" was the wrong word... riding off curbs is likely a
better phrase to describe what happens. It is about a 6 to 8" drop that
I ride over slow and drop down to the lower surface. I'm by no means
flying through the air. 🙂

Are the bikes that fragile these days that a so called "mountain bike"
at $800 CDN cannot drop slowly off a 6 - 8" inch drop without eventually
suffering a mechanical failure?

If so, I'll definitely stop. BTW, the bike is a hardtail... no rear
suspension.

When I went to test ride the bike I ultimately bought, a full suspension
MTB, the first thing I did was to drop from a curb, about six or eight
inches and instead of posting (standing bent kneed on the pedals) I kept
my butt on the seat in order to feel all the bone jarring excitement my
old hardtails used to deliver. Well, when I landed on what felt like a
marshmallow, I was in love, and bought that bike the next day.
--

JK

Justín Käse <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> In Message-ID:<[email hidden]> posted on Sat, 01 Oct
:> 2005 17:53:32 -0400, Joe Canuck wrote:
:>
:>>jj wrote:
:>>
:>>> On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 17:02:08 -0400, Joe Canuck
:>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
:>>>
:>>>
:>>>>The wheels have 1500 miles since May 2000 on a Giant Yukon
:>>>>
:>>>>It is a mountain bike that was never used as such, but rather
:>>>>adapted to urban use on pavement and some gravel.
:>>>>
:>>>>The only harsh treatment, relatively speaking, has been dropping
:>>>>off curbs on a regular basis where that rear wheel likely hits the
:>>>>ground fairly hard. I'm 230 lbs.
:>>>
:>>>
:>>> At 230lbs I would -not- recommend jumping off curbs "fairly hard".
:>>> Any reason you feel you need to do this? You do realize that a
:>>> $200-300 bike does not, (imo) have the quality of shocks that
:>>> would support this kind of treatment. I'd avoid it in the future
:>>> or learn how to jump up on the curb so that you land both wheels,
:>>> lightly. ;-)
:>>>
:>>> jj
:>>>
:>>
:>>Well, "jumping" was the wrong word... riding off curbs is likely a
:>>better phrase to describe what happens. It is about a 6 to 8" drop
:>>that
:>>I ride over slow and drop down to the lower surface. I'm by no means
:>>flying through the air. 🙂
:>>
:>>Are the bikes that fragile these days that a so called "mountain
:>>bike"
:>>at $800 CDN cannot drop slowly off a 6 - 8" inch drop without
:>>eventually suffering a mechanical failure?

Might that depend, to some extent at least, on whose riding the bike?

:>>
:>>If so, I'll definitely stop. BTW, the bike is a hardtail... no rear
:>>suspension.
:>
:> When I went to test ride the bike I ultimately bought, a full
:> suspension MTB, the first thing I did was to drop from a curb, about
:> six or eight inches and instead of posting (standing bent kneed on
:> the pedals) I kept
:> my butt on the seat in order to feel all the bone jarring excitement
:> my
:> old hardtails used to deliver. Well, when I landed on what felt like
:> a marshmallow, I was in love, and bought that bike the next day.
:> --
:>
:> JK

"Justín Käse" wrote" (clip) the first thing I did was to drop from a curb,
about six or eight inches and instead of posting (standing bent kneed on the
pedals) (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was not familiar with that term (posting) but I am very familiar with the
technique. A heavy rider allowing the rear wheel to drop off an 8 or 9"
curb, with full weight on the seat, would definitely stress the bike.
Besides punishing the rear wheel, think of the bending load this puts on the
seat post, and the prying action this then applies to the top of the seat
tube and clamp.

Roger Zoul <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> Justín Käse <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> :> In Message-ID:<[email hidden]> posted on Sat, 01
:> :> Oct 2005 17:53:32 -0400, Joe Canuck wrote:
:> :>
:> :>>jj wrote:
:> :>>
:> :>>> On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 17:02:08 -0400, Joe Canuck
:> :>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
:> :>>>
:> :>>>
:> :>>>>The wheels have 1500 miles since May 2000 on a Giant Yukon
:> :>>>>
:> :>>>>It is a mountain bike that was never used as such, but rather
:> :>>>>adapted to urban use on pavement and some gravel.
:> :>>>>
:> :>>>>The only harsh treatment, relatively speaking, has been dropping
:> :>>>>off curbs on a regular basis where that rear wheel likely hits
:> :>>>>the ground fairly hard. I'm 230 lbs.
:> :>>>
:> :>>>
:> :>>> At 230lbs I would -not- recommend jumping off curbs "fairly
:> :>>> hard". Any reason you feel you need to do this? You do realize
:> :>>> that a $200-300 bike does not, (imo) have the quality of shocks
:> :>>> that would support this kind of treatment. I'd avoid it in the
:> :>>> future or learn how to jump up on the curb so that you land
:> :>>> both wheels, lightly. ;-)
:> :>>>
:> :>>> jj
:> :>>>
:> :>>
:> :>>Well, "jumping" was the wrong word... riding off curbs is likely a
:> :>>better phrase to describe what happens. It is about a 6 to 8" drop
:> :>>that
:> :>>I ride over slow and drop down to the lower surface. I'm by no
:> :>>means flying through the air. 🙂
:> :>>
:> :>>Are the bikes that fragile these days that a so called "mountain
:> :>>bike"
:> :>>at $800 CDN cannot drop slowly off a 6 - 8" inch drop without
:> :>>eventually suffering a mechanical failure?
:>
:> Might that depend, to some extent at least, on whose riding the bike?

make that "who is".

:>
:> :>>
:> :>>If so, I'll definitely stop. BTW, the bike is a hardtail... no
:> :>>rear suspension.
:> :>
:> :> When I went to test ride the bike I ultimately bought, a full
:> :> suspension MTB, the first thing I did was to drop from a curb,
:> :> about six or eight inches and instead of posting (standing bent
:> :> kneed on the pedals) I kept
:> :> my butt on the seat in order to feel all the bone jarring
:> :> excitement my
:> :> old hardtails used to deliver. Well, when I landed on what felt
:> :> like a marshmallow, I was in love, and bought that bike the next
:> :> day. --
:> :>
:> :> JK

Leo Lichtman said:

"Justín Käse" wrote" (clip) the first thing I did was to drop from a curb,
about six or eight inches and instead of posting (standing bent kneed on the
pedals) (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was not familiar with that term (posting) but I am very familiar with the
technique. A heavy rider allowing the rear wheel to drop off an 8 or 9"
curb, with full weight on the seat, would definitely stress the bike.
Besides punishing the rear wheel, think of the bending load this puts on the
seat post, and the prying action this then applies to the top of the seat
tube and clamp.

Okay, thats it... this makes sense. I've been a complete bonehead
regarding the stress this places on the bike and wheels.

No more dropping off curbs. This was a self-induced failure. I'm lucky
it was not more catastrophic or further from home.

In light of this I'm considering having all the rear spokes replaced in
case some of them are weakened and ready to fail... spokes are cheap.

In
Message-ID:<[email hidden]>

posted on Sat said:

"Justín Käse" wrote" (clip) the first thing I did was to drop from a curb,
about six or eight inches and instead of posting (standing bent kneed on the
pedals) (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was not familiar with that term (posting) but I am very familiar with the
technique.

Comes from horse riding,
called trot posting I think,
at least that's where I first learned the technique as a kid.

Quoted message said:

A heavy rider allowing the rear wheel to drop off an 8 or 9"
curb, with full weight on the seat, would definitely stress the bike.
Besides punishing the rear wheel, think of the bending load this puts on the
seat post, and the prying action this then applies to the top of the seat
tube and clamp.

It was the stores demo model (no expense to me if it failed)
of what they claimed to be the sturdiest thing they had.
I gave it my make or break litmus test, I'm about 250lbs.
It passed, I bought it!
A 2005 model 19" Giant AC described here: http://tinyurl.com/eyn26
and reviewed by some enthusiasts here: http://tinyurl.com/7386m
--

JK

Joe Canuck said:

The wheels have 1500 miles since May 2000 on a Giant Yukon.

Quoted message said:

It is a mountain bike that was never used as such, but rather
adapted to urban use on pavement and some gravel.

Quoted message said:

The only harsh treatment, relatively speaking, has been dropping off
curbs on a regular basis where that rear wheel likely hits the
ground fairly hard. I'm 230 lbs.

Spokes may break at some incident of sudden loading such as the
re-tensioning after landing from a drop off (like a curb) but these
failures are fatigue cracks that have cracked most of the way through
as you can see if you inspect the face of the fracture. Most of it
will be dirty and only the final failure will be metallically shiny.

Most of these failures arise because the wheel was never tightened
sufficiently to stress relive the spokes and improve the spoke line to
prevent repeated flexing of a semi-loose spoke.

Quoted message said:

Agreed on learning the repairs. I've never had a failure, so I
suppose I've been extremely lucky.

Well, that depends. If you were riding 10000 miles per year, you
would be lucky not to have a failure but many folks riding less than
2000 miles per year get away with no spoke failures.

Jobst Brandt

Joe Canuck [email protected] said:

Quoted message said:

At 230lbs I would -not- recommend jumping off curbs "fairly hard".
Any reason you feel you need to do this? You do realize that a
$200-300 bike does not, (imo) have the quality of shocks that would
support this kind of treatment. I'd avoid it in the future or
learn how to jump up on the curb so that you land both wheels,
lightly.

Quoted message said:

Well, "jumping" was the wrong word... riding off curbs is likely a
better phrase to describe what happens. It is about a 6 to 8" drop
that I ride over slow and drop down to the lower surface. I'm by no
means flying through the air.

Quoted message said:

Are the bikes that fragile these days that a so called "mountain
bike" at $800 CDN cannot drop slowly off a 6 - 8" inch drop without
eventually suffering a mechanical failure?

Not to worry, as I said, spokes only get loosened when the wheel is
loaded from such an exercise and with fat tires the shock isn't nearly
as harsh as it is for road bicycles with 100psi thin tires that do
this often. Whether your frame complains about this is another
subject but even these generally don't have a catastrophic failure if
you are aware of the noises a frame makes when developing cracks.

Quoted message said:

If so, I'll definitely stop. BTW, the bike is a hardtail... no rear
suspension.

Unless you are compressing your spine as you sit on the saddle in such
drops, you aren't overloading the rear end. Don't worry about it.

Jobst Brandt

Leo Lichtman said:

"Just?n K?se" wrote" (clip) the first thing I did was to drop from a
curb, about six or eight inches and instead of posting (standing
bent kneed on the pedals) (clip)

Quoted message said:

I was not familiar with that term (posting) but I am very familiar
with the technique. A heavy rider allowing the rear wheel to drop
off an 8 or 9" curb, with full weight on the seat, would definitely
stress the bike. Besides punishing the rear wheel, think of the
bending load this puts on the seat post, and the prying action this
then applies to the top of the seat tube and clamp.

I think you should try this on a hard-tail before imagining that
someone would do it. You could get permanent spinal damage from an 8"
drop with no suspension under your buttocks.

Jobst Brandt

Leo Lichtman said:

"Justín Käse" wrote" (clip) the first thing I did was to drop from a curb,
about six or eight inches and instead of posting (standing bent kneed on the
pedals) (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was not familiar with that term (posting) but I am very familiar with the
technique. A heavy rider allowing the rear wheel to drop off an 8 or 9"
curb, with full weight on the seat, would definitely stress the bike.
Besides punishing the rear wheel, think of the bending load this puts on the
seat post, and the prying action this then applies to the top of the seat
tube and clamp.

Mountain bikes are designed to take such loads, even though most are
never actually ridden off the pavement. I have used relatively
inexpensive frames and wheels to ride off-road for many years, often
pulling a trailer (or trailer-bike) in addition to my 230 lb body. I
have had too few broken spokes to remember, and I think most of those
had been chain nicked.

MTB wheels are very strong. If a wheel is breaking spokes it's likely
from no stress relief and under-tension. Even the cheap wheels on $250
bikes seem to take hard off-road riding well once they have been gone
over. 8-9" drops are nothing -- it's common to ride a succession of such
drops (AKA stairs), and that's one of the tamer things to do with a
mountain bike -- real trail riding is usually much more demanding.

I'm 6'10" and use a 425mm seatpost on my mountain bike. I assume the
designers realized that a long seatpost would actually be used with its
full length, and that some riders would exceed 200 lb. If not, a weight
limit would be needed. To date, I have not broken a seatpost, either --
despite bearing an additional load of 100+ lb coupled to the base of the
post (trailer/trailer-bike). I have broken one saddle -- a lightweight
titanium railed one -- cracking the rails from bouncing on the nose, but
that's about it from a decade of weekly+ MTB rides over steep and rocky
hiking trails.

Your concerns/advice are obviously based on speculation, not experience
or familiarity with the equipment. That isn't helpful.