Viking range quality

Quoted message said:

I considering getting a Viking dual fuel 48" range for the houe were
building. I've read old posts of Viking's quality is not good. I'm
wondering if the quality of their products has gone up since the late
90's, early 2000's. If the quality is not up there what would you get
instead?

I had a Viking range. I had a hard time baking things in it. I was
advised to use better baking pans because it was "high efficiency".
Results were better but not great. A few years ago I got a Maytag. Things
that turned out badly in the Viking were excellent in the Maytag, and the
only difference was the range.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Smith said:

Quoted message said:

I considering getting a Viking dual fuel 48" range for the houe were
building. I've read old posts of Viking's quality is not good. I'm
wondering if the quality of their products has gone up since the late
90's, early 2000's. If the quality is not up there what would you get
instead?

I had a Viking range. I had a hard time baking things in it. I was
advised to use better baking pans because it was "high efficiency".
Results were better but not great. A few years ago I got a Maytag. Things
that turned out badly in the Viking were excellent in the Maytag, and the
only difference was the range.

This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
of heat. Many people buy copper for the looks and/or because they see that
top chefs prefer it, but it isn't easy to cook with. It requires skill.
It's more so true when using the burners, but it is true of ovens as well.

I cooked in a large commercial kitchen and it's not quite so simple as throwing
something in and setting a timer like many people are used to. You can do
fabulous things with that equipment that you could never do with the Maytag,
but if you aren't searing ahi, broiling meats, or baking soufflees regularly
then there is no benefit and in fact a real danger of burning food.

Dimitri

"D. Gerasimatos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
of heat. Many people buy copper for the looks and/or because they see that
top chefs prefer it, but it isn't easy to cook with. It requires skill.
It's more so true when using the burners, but it is true of ovens as well.

Could you explain this a bit more. What I gathered was she mixed up a batter
or whatever, put it in the oven, but the results were not as good If you set
the oven at say, 350, it should reach 350 and give the same results in any
oven at 350. Same pan and recipe at 350 in one oven should be identical to
the same pan and recipe at 350 in another oven. Differences are poor heat
distribution, wide temperature swings. I fail to see why the individual
would be at fault here.

D. Gerasimatos said:

Quoted message said:

I had a Viking range. I had a hard time baking things in it. I was
advised to use better baking pans because it was "high efficiency".
Results were better but not great. A few years ago I got a Maytag. Things
that turned out badly in the Viking were excellent in the Maytag, and the
only difference was the range.

This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
of heat. Many people buy copper for the looks and/or because they see that
top chefs prefer it, but it isn't easy to cook with. It requires skill.
It's more so true when using the burners, but it is true of ovens as well.

I cooked in a large commercial kitchen and it's not quite so simple as throwing
something in and setting a timer like many people are used to. You can do
fabulous things with that equipment that you could never do with the Maytag,
but if you aren't searing ahi, broiling meats, or baking soufflees regularly
then there is no benefit and in fact a real danger of burning food.

I am not talking about specialized commercial ovens. I am talking about regular
private use home oven for domestic use. I used the same recipes and the same
cooking pans for years. I use those old pans in the replacement range and have good
luck. It was that one unit where things would never cook properly. Cookies that
used to turn out every time would melt, spread and burn on the bottom. Roasts
would never be cooked properly despite having used the same temperature and time
combinations in numerous ovens. It was this one unit that screwed up just about
everything we ever tried to cook in it.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:54:16 +0000 (UTC),

(D. Gerasimatos) said:

This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
of heat.

Howdy,

I am confused by your comment above...

Should not two ovens each set to, say, 375F, each stay at
about that temperature?

I certainly can understand the issue of two range tops
producing (radically) different amounts of heat, but ovens
would seem to be a different matter.

So, perhaps you can amplify:

What would it mean for one oven at 375F to have more heat
than another at the same temperature?

Thanks,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Edwin Pawlowski said:

"D. Gerasimatos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
of heat. Many people buy copper for the looks and/or because they see that
top chefs prefer it, but it isn't easy to cook with. It requires skill.
It's more so true when using the burners, but it is true of ovens as well.

Could you explain this a bit more. What I gathered was she mixed up a batter
or whatever, put it in the oven, but the results were not as good If you set
the oven at say, 350, it should reach 350 and give the same results in any
oven at 350. Same pan and recipe at 350 in one oven should be identical to
the same pan and recipe at 350 in another oven. Differences are poor heat
distribution, wide temperature swings. I fail to see why the individual
would be at fault here.

Hi Edwin,

Please forgive me... I just posted the very same thought but
did it before I read your post. I guess I should read more
of the thread before I start a-clickin'.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:54:16 +0000 (UTC),

(D. Gerasimatos) said:

This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
of heat.

Howdy,

I am confused by your comment above...

Should not two ovens each set to, say, 375F, each stay at
about that temperature?

I certainly can understand the issue of two range tops
producing (radically) different amounts of heat, but ovens
would seem to be a different matter.

So, perhaps you can amplify:

What would it mean for one oven at 375F to have more heat
than another at the same temperature?

Thanks,
--
Kenneth

Some ovens have less height. So, "cooking with rack in the center" can have
lots of different meanings. Or, maybe the Viking range has a convection fan.
The OP said something about "high efficiency", whatever that means in an
oven.

Edwin Pawlowski said:

"D. Gerasimatos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
of heat. Many people buy copper for the looks and/or because they see that
top chefs prefer it, but it isn't easy to cook with. It requires skill.
It's more so true when using the burners, but it is true of ovens as well.

Could you explain this a bit more. What I gathered was she mixed up a batter
or whatever, put it in the oven, but the results were not as good If you set
the oven at say, 350, it should reach 350 and give the same results in any
oven at 350. Same pan and recipe at 350 in one oven should be identical to
the same pan and recipe at 350 in another oven. Differences are poor heat
distribution, wide temperature swings. I fail to see why the individual
would be at fault here.

I'm a she?? :-)
But you are right. I was cooking the same things, using the same recipes that I
had used with other ovens, and same temperature setting. That oven was totally
unreliable. The same recipes in the Maytag which replaced that piece of [censored]
turned out well. We had problems with everything we cooked in that oven.
Roasts were either overcooked or undercooked, but we never had problems like
that before or since that unit.

Doug Kanter said:

"Kenneth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:54:16 +0000 (UTC),

(D. Gerasimatos) said:

This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
of heat.

Howdy,

I am confused by your comment above...

Should not two ovens each set to, say, 375F, each stay at
about that temperature?

I certainly can understand the issue of two range tops
producing (radically) different amounts of heat, but ovens
would seem to be a different matter.

So, perhaps you can amplify:

What would it mean for one oven at 375F to have more heat
than another at the same temperature?

Thanks,
--
Kenneth

Some ovens have less height. So, "cooking with rack in the center" can have
lots of different meanings. Or, maybe the Viking range has a convection fan.
The OP said something about "high efficiency", whatever that means in an
oven.

All I know is that almost all of our baked goods came out better when we
replaced a 1940s vintage wall oven with a 2004 model. The new oven is
huge by comparison and holds 350 +/- 12 degrees. The old oven was _all_
over the map.

Matthew

--
Thermodynamics and/or Golf for dummies: There is a game
You can't win
You can't break even
You can't get out of the game

Matthew L. Martin said:

Doug Kanter said:

"Kenneth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:54:16 +0000 (UTC),
[email hidden] (D. Gerasimatos) wrote:

>This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
>lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
>copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
>of heat.

Howdy,

I am confused by your comment above...

Should not two ovens each set to, say, 375F, each stay at
about that temperature?

I certainly can understand the issue of two range tops
producing (radically) different amounts of heat, but ovens
would seem to be a different matter.

So, perhaps you can amplify:

What would it mean for one oven at 375F to have more heat
than another at the same temperature?

Thanks,
--
Kenneth

Some ovens have less height. So, "cooking with rack in the center" can have
lots of different meanings. Or, maybe the Viking range has a convection fan.
The OP said something about "high efficiency", whatever that means in an
oven.

All I know is that almost all of our baked goods came out better when we
replaced a 1940s vintage wall oven with a 2004 model. The new oven is
huge by comparison and holds 350 +/- 12 degrees. The old oven was _all_
over the map.

Matthew

Howdy,

I'll try again...

I was responding to the notion that some ovens have "a lot
of heat."

That makes little sense to me.

Do ovens differ? Of course they do and often in the way that
you describe, that is some fluctuate wildly in temperature.

But I doubt that many would understand that to be an issue
of some having "a lot of heat" while others have less.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Doug Kanter said:

"Kenneth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:54:16 +0000 (UTC),

(D. Gerasimatos) said:

This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
of heat.

Howdy,

I am confused by your comment above...

Should not two ovens each set to, say, 375F, each stay at
about that temperature?

I certainly can understand the issue of two range tops
producing (radically) different amounts of heat, but ovens
would seem to be a different matter.

So, perhaps you can amplify:

What would it mean for one oven at 375F to have more heat
than another at the same temperature?

Thanks,
--
Kenneth

Some ovens have less height. So, "cooking with rack in the center" can have
lots of different meanings.

Oven height makes not a whit of difference.

Or, maybe the Viking range has a convection fan.

Still no difference... convection ovens mainly permit one to load up an
oven while compensating for loss of natural convection.

Quoted message said:

The OP said something about "high efficiency", whatever that means in an
oven.

Like "Super Deluxe"... means "hyperpbole".

An oven set at 375ºF is the same 375ºF regardless which oven... so
long as that's the actual temperature inside the oven. Whenever an
oven's performance is suspect the very first thing to do is monitor the
oven temperature with an oven thermomneter... could easily be a faulty
thermostat or the thermostat simply needs adjustment. Most all oven
thermostats are easily adjustable. If that doesn't solve the problem
the next thing to check is the oven door gasket, especially with older
ovens... draughty ovens simply don't perform well, plus they waste
energy... change the gasket. Btw, never place anything on an open oven
door, it is not a shelf. Besides the danger factor from tipping, the
hinge mechanism will spring and the door will no longer close properly,
even with a new gasket. Even if it's a wall oven that can't tip, once
the hinge mechanism springs the only remedy is an entire new mechanism,
ofen a new door as well, can be a ridiculously costly affair... you'll
never place anything on your open oven door again.

Also, the biggest killer of oven thermostats is excessive use of the
auto-clean cycle.

Sheldon

"D. Gerasimatos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Smith said:

Quoted message said:

I considering getting a Viking dual fuel 48" range for the houe were
building. I've read old posts of Viking's quality is not good. I'm
wondering if the quality of their products has gone up since the late
90's, early 2000's. If the quality is not up there what would you get
instead?

I had a Viking range. I had a hard time baking things in it. I was
advised to use better baking pans because it was "high efficiency".
Results were better but not great. A few years ago I got a Maytag. Things
that turned out badly in the Viking were excellent in the Maytag, and the
only difference was the range.

This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
of heat. Many people buy copper for the looks and/or because they see that
top chefs prefer it, but it isn't easy to cook with. It requires skill.
It's more so true when using the burners, but it is true of ovens as well.

I cooked in a large commercial kitchen and it's not quite so simple as
throwing
something in and setting a timer like many people are used to. You can do
fabulous things with that equipment that you could never do with the
Maytag,
but if you aren't searing ahi, broiling meats, or baking soufflees
regularly
then there is no benefit and in fact a real danger of burning food.

Quoted message said:

Dimitri

While I'm reading this, I'm thinking about a Corvette I once drove. I had
only driven ordinary cars. When I put on the brakes and came to stop at the
curb, I almost hit the telephone pole and scared my passenger quite badly.
Just too darned powerful for the uninitiated. While I think I would love a
high-powered stove, I don't kid myself that I can cook like Mario. (I'm not
saying that the poster isn't a Mario, tho, but we can't all be that good.)
Dee Dee

Dee Randall said:

"D. Gerasimatos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Smith said:

[email hidden] wrote:

> I considering getting a Viking dual fuel 48" range for the houe were
> building. I've read old posts of Viking's quality is not good. I'm
> wondering if the quality of their products has gone up since the late
> 90's, early 2000's. If the quality is not up there what would you get
> instead?
>

I had a Viking range. I had a hard time baking things in it. I was
advised to use better baking pans because it was "high efficiency".
Results were better but not great. A few years ago I got a Maytag. Things
that turned out badly in the Viking were excellent in the Maytag, and the
only difference was the range.

This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
of heat. Many people buy copper for the looks and/or because they see that
top chefs prefer it, but it isn't easy to cook with. It requires skill.
It's more so true when using the burners, but it is true of ovens as well.

I cooked in a large commercial kitchen and it's not quite so simple as
throwing
something in and setting a timer like many people are used to. You can do
fabulous things with that equipment that you could never do with the
Maytag,
but if you aren't searing ahi, broiling meats, or baking soufflees
regularly
then there is no benefit and in fact a real danger of burning food.

Quoted message said:

Dimitri

While I'm reading this, I'm thinking about a Corvette I once drove. I had
only driven ordinary cars. When I put on the brakes and came to stop at the
curb, I almost hit the telephone pole and scared my passenger quite badly.
Just too darned powerful for the uninitiated. While I think I would love a
high-powered stove, I don't kid myself that I can cook like Mario. (I'm not
saying that the poster isn't a Mario, tho, but we can't all be that good.)
Dee Dee

Commercial _STYLE_ stoves ain't nothing, they're ordinary (sheep in
Wolf's clothing), only cost a whole lot more for nothing... they're all
show and no go. Hey, iffn you got more bucks than brain cells go for
it.

Sheldon

"Dave Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
..

Quoted message said:

I'm a she?? :-)

Wow, I blew that one. I'll have to get back to you with a good exuse. It
won't take me long to concoct something reasonably believable.

Kenneth said:

Matthew L. Martin said:

Doug Kanter said:

"Kenneth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:54:16 +0000 (UTC),
>[email hidden] (D. Gerasimatos) wrote:
>
>
>
>>This is, sad to say, probably a testament to your cooking ability - or
>>lack thereof. I don't mean that to offend you. However, just as with
>>copper pans, one has to be a skilled cook in order to cook with a lot
>>of heat.
>
>Howdy,
>
>I am confused by your comment above...
>
>Should not two ovens each set to, say, 375F, each stay at
>about that temperature?
>
>I certainly can understand the issue of two range tops
>producing (radically) different amounts of heat, but ovens
>would seem to be a different matter.
>
>So, perhaps you can amplify:
>
>What would it mean for one oven at 375F to have more heat
>than another at the same temperature?
>
>Thanks,
>--
>Kenneth

Some ovens have less height. So, "cooking with rack in the center" can have
lots of different meanings. Or, maybe the Viking range has a convection fan.
The OP said something about "high efficiency", whatever that means in an
oven.

All I know is that almost all of our baked goods came out better when we
replaced a 1940s vintage wall oven with a 2004 model. The new oven is
huge by comparison and holds 350 +/- 12 degrees. The old oven was _all_
over the map.

Matthew

Howdy,

I'll try again...

I was responding to the notion that some ovens have "a lot
of heat."

That makes little sense to me.

Do ovens differ? Of course they do and often in the way that
you describe, that is some fluctuate wildly in temperature.

But I doubt that many would understand that to be an issue
of some having "a lot of heat" while others have less.

All the best,

I thoroughly understand the difference. Please read my sig.

There is no way that the same recipe, prepared in the same pans and
baked "the same way" can turn out badly in one oven and well in another
and have the difference blamed on the cook instead of the cooker. If
"having more heat" is an advantage, then the results from such an oven
should be better. Care to explain why the results came out the way they did?

Matthew

--
Thermodynamics and/or Golf for dummies: There is a game
You can't win
You can't break even
You can't get out of the game

Quoted message said:

I considering getting a Viking dual fuel 48" range for the houe were
building. I've read old posts of Viking's quality is not good. I'm
wondering if the quality of their products has gone up since the late
90's, early 2000's. If the quality is not up there what would you get
instead?

Maybe it's a fluke, but a friend remodeled her kitchen during the time
you've stated and her Viking range has never given her trouble to date
and she cooks for a family of 6.

Edwin Pawlowski said:

Could you explain this a bit more. What I gathered was she
mixed up a batter or whatever, put it in the oven, but the
results were not as good If you set the oven at say, 350,
it should reach 350 and give the same results in any oven at
350. Same pan and recipe at 350 in one oven should be identical
to the same pan and recipe at 350 in another oven.

No, because the different ovens might have different humidities,
and they might have different degrees of air flow (convection).

If the Viking cooks faster than the Maytag at the same
temperature, then it probably has lower humidity, more
convection, or both. It's not correct to say it has "more heat".

Steve

sf sfpipeline_at_gmail.com said:

On 28 Sep 2005 07:19:27 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I considering getting a Viking dual fuel 48" range for the houe were
building. I've read old posts of Viking's quality is not good. I'm
wondering if the quality of their products has gone up since the late
90's, early 2000's. If the quality is not up there what would you get
instead?

Quoted message said:

Maybe it's a fluke, but a friend remodeled her kitchen during the time
you've stated and her Viking range has never given her trouble to date
and she cooks for a family of 6.

The concern seems to be Viking's oven behavior, not their
range quality.

(Crossposts got removed somewhere.)

Steve

Quoted message said:

I considering getting a Viking dual fuel 48" range for the houe were
building. I've read old posts of Viking's quality is not good. I'm
wondering if the quality of their products has gone up since the late
90's, early 2000's. If the quality is not up there what would you get
instead?

Thanks!

Reading down through this thread I saw several good comments. I can
readily visualize significant differences in manufacturing quality. For
instance, an oven that is poorly sealed will likely exhibit wider temperature
swings then a tight one. Likewise an oven of minimal thermal mass will
likely swing wider then a heavier one. Only a few companies manufacture
the thermocouples used to control ovens commonly seen in America.
Robert Shaw comes to mind as about the most common. I suppose one
could encounter a defective thermocouple and that would explain a lot.
My oven is a gas fired Jenn Air (Maytag). It is guilty of swinging widely until it has
had considerable time to warm up. It needs 20 minutes or so after it signals
proper temperature to actually achieve stability. Most foods that I cook in
the oven aren't affected by that, but if I were baking anything more critical,
I would certainly pay attention. This is the first time I have ever read criticim
(sp) about a Viking oven.
--
The Brick said that (Don't bother to agree with me, I have already changed my mind.)

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