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Telegraph today

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UK and Europe
Published
26 September 2005
Last activity
29 September 2005
Original author
wafflycat
Posts
23
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  1. About cycling...

    <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=FJ5DOFPM3VQWPQFIQMGSM5OAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2005/09/26/nbike26.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/26/ixhome.html>

    "Towns get £5m to start cycle revolution"

    One can only hope it isn't spent on white paint...

    "At present, less than one and a half per cent of all journeys are by
    bicycle in England, but in Hull, Bristol, York, Cambridge, Oxford and
    London - all cycle-friendly towns - the figure is higher. In Hull, where
    there are 20mph limit zones, it is 12 per cent.
    In contrast, 25 per cent of trips in Holland are by bike, a situation which
    Mr Darnton described as "a dream". One way to encourage people to cycle more
    is to slow down traffic, he said. Danger from fast drivers was commonly
    cited, especially by women, as a reason they did not cycle.
    The cycling demonstration towns will show, he added, that cyclists get
    exercise, save money and tackle the pollution problem.
    Mr Darnton said investment was needed because we are "all completely
    car-centric". "Get out of your car, change a culture, change an attitude.""

    and

    <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=FJ5DOFPM3VQWPQFIQMGSM5OAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2005/09/26/nbike126.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/26/ixhome.html>

    "We are not all dreadlocked eco-warriors, so give us a break"

    Apparently the author does not like people who cycle fast ;-)
    Cheers, helen s

  2. And there's this one...

    <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=FJ5DOFPM3VQWPQFIQMGSM5OAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2005/09/26/ncows26.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/26/ixhome.html>

    "Children see father left close to death after cow attack"

    Cheers, helen s

  3. wafflycat said:

    And there's this one...

    <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=FJ5DOFPM3VQWPQFIQMGSM5OAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2005/09/26/ncows26.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/26/ixhome.html>

    "Children see father left close to death after cow attack"

    Cheers, helen s

    Does this mean you are admitting to reading that dreadful rag?

    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon

  4. wafflycat said:

    About cycling...

    <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=FJ5DOFPM3VQWPQFIQMGSM5OAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2005/09/26/nbike26.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/26/ixhome.html>

    "Towns get £5m to start cycle revolution"

    Funny, I looked at the photo caption and wondered why it wasn't "The
    grim reality of life for drivers in London"

    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon

  5. "Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    wafflycat said:

    And there's this one...

    <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=FJ5DOFPM3VQWPQFIQMGSM5OAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2005/09/26/ncows26.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/26/ixhome.html>
    "Children see father left close to death after cow attack"

    Cheers, helen s

    Does this mean you are admitting to reading that dreadful rag?

    I read various dreadful rags online from all ranges of the dreadful rag
    zone. Well, I don't go as far as Screws of the World or the Sun...

    Cheers, helen s

  6. wafflycat said:

    "We are not all dreadlocked eco-warriors, so give us a break"

    Apparently the author does not like people who cycle fast ;-)

    I didn't read it that way at all. I read it as saying that cycling does
    not /need/ to be treated like a sport, and given that the emphasis in
    the UK bike retail area is on sports machinery, or pretend sports
    machinery, and sporty clothing and accessories, then Hurrah! for that
    message.

    Have a look around a Dutch town and you'll see what he means. People
    riding in their day to day clothes doing their day to day things on
    bikes that wouldn't really gain from contrived padded shorts, clipless
    pedals and enormously expensive components weighing nothing. In short,
    cycling without a lot of fuss.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  7. "wafflycat" <waffles*$*A**T*v21net$*££*D*O*T*co*D£$£*O*T*uk> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    About cycling...

    <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=FJ5DOFPM3VQWPQFIQMGSM5OAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2005/09/26/nbike26.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/26/ixhome.html>

    "Towns get £5m to start cycle revolution"

    One can only hope it isn't spent on white paint...

    "At present, less than one and a half per cent of all journeys are by
    bicycle in England, but in Hull, Bristol, York, Cambridge, Oxford and
    London - all cycle-friendly towns - the figure is higher. In Hull, where
    there are 20mph limit zones, it is 12 per cent.

    Nice to see Kings Town upon Hull getting some decent press for a change!

    20 mph zones -> http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/page361.htm

    --
    Simon Mason
    http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

  8. "Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Nice to see Kings Town upon Hull getting some decent press for a change!

    20 mph zones -> http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/page361.htm

    --
    Simon Mason
    http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

    I like the ones for Newland Avenue, Barham Road & Hessle Road best

    Cheers, helen s

  9. Peter Clinch said:


    Have a look around a Dutch town and you'll see what he means. People
    riding in their day to day clothes doing their day to day things on
    bikes that wouldn't really gain from contrived padded shorts, clipless
    pedals and enormously expensive components weighing nothing. In short,
    cycling without a lot of fuss.

    You forget to mention without helmets too. In the days before my
    enlightenment our two children had an exchange trip with a Dutch family.
    They were very good about our insistence that our children wore
    helmets when cycling but viewed it as very quaint. Our children
    definitely felt the odd ones wearing helmets when out and about on their
    bikes.

    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon

  10. Tony Raven said:

    You forget to mention without helmets too.

    I think "In short, cycling without a lot of fuss" covers that particular
    base... ;-)

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  11. wafflycat' waffles*$*A**T*v21net$*££*D*O*T*co*D£$£*O*T*uk said:


    "Towns get £5m to start cycle revolution"

    One can only hope it isn't spent on white paint...

    It isn't enough to pay for much else.

    Tony.
    --
    f.a.n.finch <[email hidden]> http://dotat.at/
    WEST CENTRAL SECTION: WEST OR NORTHWEST 7 TO SEVERE GALE 9 BACKING SOUTHWEST
    6 TO GALE 8, DECREASING 4 OR 5 IN SOUTH. SHOWERS THEN RAIN. MODERATE OR GOOD.

  12. Tony Finch said:

    It isn't enough to pay for much else.

    White paint costs quite a bit. The sorts of measures suggested (like
    making training available) are quite potentially less.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  13. Tony Raven said:


    wafflycat said:

    And there's this one...

    <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=FJ5DOFPM3VQWPQFIQMGSM5OAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2005/09/26/ncows26.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/26/ixhome.html>

    "Children see father left close to death after cow attack"

    Cheers, helen s

    Does this mean you are admitting to reading that dreadful rag?

    It could explain a few things ;-)

    john B

  14. Just zis Guy said:

    I submit that on or about Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:25:36 +0100, the person
    known to the court as "wafflycat"
    <waffles*$*A**T*v21net$*££*D*O*T*co*D£$£*O*T*uk> made a statement
    (<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's bundle) to the
    following effect:

    Quoted message said:

    "At present, less than one and a half per cent of all journeys are by
    bicycle in England, but in Hull, Bristol, York, Cambridge, Oxford and
    London - all cycle-friendly towns - the figure is higher.

    I have to say that there is nothing particularly cyclist-friendly
    about either Oxford or London (certainly no more so than Reading); in
    my view there are just more cyclists, so people expect them and know
    how to interact with them.

    There are a good number of cyclists and the roads aren't particularly
    cyclist unfriendly. So it works..

    ...d

  15. I submit that on or about 26 Sep 2005 13:51:45 -0700, the person known
    to the court as "David Martin" <[email hidden]> made a
    statement (<[email hidden]> in
    Your Honour's bundle) to the following effect:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I have to say that there is nothing particularly cyclist-friendly
    about either Oxford or London (certainly no more so than Reading); in
    my view there are just more cyclists, so people expect them and know
    how to interact with them.

    Quoted message said:

    There are a good number of cyclists and the roads aren't particularly
    cyclist unfriendly. So it works..

    Indeed - but the city is not "cyclist friendly" in some mystical way.

    Guy
    --
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    "To every complex problem there is a solution which is
    simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

  16. wafflycat said:

    "Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    wafflycat said:

    And there's this one...

    <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=FJ5DOFPM3VQWPQFIQMGSM5OAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2005/09/26/ncows26.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/26/ixhome.html>
    "Children see father left close to death after cow attack"

    Cheers, helen s

    Does this mean you are admitting to reading that dreadful rag?

    I read various dreadful rags online from all ranges of the dreadful rag
    zone. Well, I don't go as far as Screws of the World or the Sun...

    they're on line? how do readers log on?, internet has 3 syllables

  17. Just zis Guy said:

    I submit that on or about 26 Sep 2005 13:51:45 -0700, the person known
    to the court as "David Martin" <[email hidden]> made a
    statement (<[email hidden]> in
    Your Honour's bundle) to the following effect:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I have to say that there is nothing particularly cyclist-friendly
    about either Oxford or London (certainly no more so than Reading);
    in my view there are just more cyclists, so people expect them and
    know how to interact with them.

    Quoted message said:

    There are a good number of cyclists and the roads aren't particularly
    cyclist unfriendly. So it works..

    Indeed - but the city is not "cyclist friendly" in some mystical way.

    Are you implying that it's the presence of other cyclists that makes a city
    cyclist friendly.
    --
    Ambrose

  18. Ambrose Nankivell said:

    Are you implying that it's the presence of other cyclists that makes a city
    cyclist friendly.

    No, it's the presence of friendly cyclists that makes a city.

    ...d

  19. David Martin said:
    Ambrose Nankivell said:

    Are you implying that it's the presence of other cyclists that makes
    a city cyclist friendly.

    No, it's the presence of friendly cyclists that makes a city.


    Which must be why my town still hasn't got its city charter yet.

    That said, I don't think Cannock Chase is a city, and the cyclists there on
    Sunday were most friendly, so I guess it's a necessary condition, not a
    sufficient condition.

    --
    Ambrose

  20. I submit that on or about Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:45:21 +0100, the person
    known to the court as "Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]>
    made a statement (<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's
    bundle) to the following effect:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    There are a good number of cyclists and the roads aren't particularly
    cyclist unfriendly. So it works..

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Indeed - but the city is not "cyclist friendly" in some mystical way.

    Quoted message said:

    Are you implying that it's the presence of other cyclists that makes a city
    cyclist friendly.

    It's a bit chicken-and-egg; some cities have a geography which
    naturally encourages cycling (like around the Oxford colleges, where
    many journeys turn out to be a five minute ride or a fifteen minute
    walk). That means you get lots of cyclists, and they encourage more
    cyclists. And then the council brags about how "cyclist friendly"
    they are, when they have largely done nothing in particular to help,
    and quite often the opposite (e.g. 18" wide cycle lanes).

    On paper Milton Keynes is cyclist friendly. But the geography sucks,
    distances are too great and parking too abundant to encourage riding,
    so it is a motorised wasteland.

    Guy
    --
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    "To every complex problem there is a solution which is
    simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

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