How long do race wheels last?

Mike said:

I have just purchased a set of Mavic SL race wheels.

I am reasonable new to the sport and wondered why most people only
get their good wheels out to race. I do realise that the reason for
this is to increase the life of the wheel.

I am interested to know how many km are a good wheelset supposed to
last???
Thanks

It depends on your riding style. If you are a lighter-weight, smooth rider,
Sillyums will last a plenty long time. If you're a heavier rider that
doesn't avoid potholes and crashes often, tomorrow may be the day you'll
need a new wheelset.

The factor here is serviceability. If you have a normal-spoke-count wheel
with J-bend spokes, all you would need to do generally is replace rims (and
maybe a couple of spokes) upon crashing. With boutique wheels, the spokes
may break, causing an end-of-ride, out-of-true wheel for which it takes two
weeks to get a replacement spoke.

People keep their race wheels away so that they have a lower probability of
breaking a spoke and damage in general. They're scared to ride their race
wheels because they'll have to go through the trouble and time-cost of
repair. They'll say, blah blah, blah, heavy wheels are good for training
but we know the real reason.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

hi...

i agree... all depends... i have an old set of campy wheels 7 speed with a
pair of rims so old that u guys wouldnt believe it (mavic gp4 1st gen)...
the rims are fine.. no problens with the spokes so far (alpina)... those
wheels should have like 15 years or more... still true... and have a lot of
kms to go...

Noname 🙂

Quoted message said:

The factor here is serviceability. If you have a normal-spoke-count
wheel with J-bend spokes, all you would need to do generally is
replace rims (and maybe a couple of spokes) upon crashing. With
boutique wheels, the spokes may break, causing an end-of-ride,
out-of-true wheel for which it takes two weeks to get a replacement
spoke.

People keep their race wheels away so that they have a lower
probability of breaking a spoke and damage in general. They're scared
to ride their race wheels because they'll have to go through the
trouble and time-cost of repair. They'll say, blah blah, blah, heavy
wheels are good for training but we know the real reason.

In article <YNLYe.121045$Ep.86336@lakeread02>,
"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Mike said:

I have just purchased a set of Mavic SL race wheels.

I am reasonable new to the sport and wondered why most people only
get their good wheels out to race. I do realise that the reason for
this is to increase the life of the wheel.

I am interested to know how many km are a good wheelset supposed to
last???
Thanks

It depends on your riding style. If you are a lighter-weight, smooth rider,
Sillyums will last a plenty long time. If you're a heavier rider that
doesn't avoid potholes and crashes often, tomorrow may be the day you'll
need a new wheelset.

The factor here is serviceability. If you have a normal-spoke-count wheel
with J-bend spokes, all you would need to do generally is replace rims (and
maybe a couple of spokes) upon crashing. With boutique wheels, the spokes
may break, causing an end-of-ride, out-of-true wheel for which it takes two
weeks to get a replacement spoke.

People keep their race wheels away so that they have a lower probability of
breaking a spoke and damage in general. They're scared to ride their race
wheels because they'll have to go through the trouble and time-cost of
repair. They'll say, blah blah, blah, heavy wheels are good for training
but we know the real reason.

A really boring but reasonable reason to keep the race wheels for race
day is that they're expensive, and any ride (especially a wet ride)
wears the rims, which are the true wear item on a typical wheel.

The rims, as you might imagine, come quite dear on many wheels.

I leave my racy rims on my race bike all year round, but I ride my rain
bike(s) in the winter. The race bike barely gets a nod between October
and March.

Yes, racy rims are often compromised in ways that don't encourage
routine use, whether that means riding off curbs a lot, riding in the
rain, riding on nasty roads, or just riding normally but spending more
time putting a wheel in harm's way, whatever that harm might be. Simple
reality: if your racy wheels are worth a couple grand (hardly
impossible; I saw a Western Washington University rider write off a Zipp
carbon wheel in the first training race of 2004: he was racing in the
"C" group), then putting them in harm's way at "non-important" times
(amateur racing, sure, but it can be taken seriously) isn't a good plan.

My racy rims earn a hard life and lots of training-ride use, but they're
also not that racy (1500g, normal spokes, aluminum rims), and cost an
order of magnitude less than really racy wheels (say, Zipp 404s). I'd
buy really racy wheels if I had the free funds, but at present the
cost/fun ratio of them would seem to be zero or less. Unless they were
the margin between winning and placing in a big race, of course. But I
think my off-season calisthenics will fill that gap, and cheaply.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Mike said:

I have just purchased a set of Mavic SL race wheels.

I am reasonable new to the sport and wondered why most people only get their
good wheels out to race. I do realise that the reason for this is to
increase the life of the wheel.

I am interested to know how many km are a good wheelset supposed to last???

Thanks

People only use their fancy wheels to race for several
reasons...extending the life of the wheel is only one reason.

*Because race wheels are lighter, they often go out of true quicker.
No need to incur the maintenance hassle for training.
*Race wheels often have lightweight, quick-wearing and expensive race
tires and cassettes. Why use these up with training miles?

Quality hubs, properly serviced, can have almost an infinite life, many
tens of thousands of miles. Rim life is dependent on how often they
are ridden in the wet, which wears MUCH more than dry mileage, and on
the thickness of the rim wall. I have a set of Open Pro rims with
maybe 25k miles on them, though they will need to be retired soon.

Quoted message said:

Mike said:

I have just purchased a set of Mavic SL race wheels.

I am interested to know how many km are a good wheelset supposed to
last???

If you purchase a set of campy wheels with mavic open pro rims, then
I'd expect the hubs to last 40 years; the rims to last maybe 3-5 years
until you crash or hit a pothole large enough to pretzle them. These
wheels cost $269 shipped to your house from PerformanceBike if you use
the 20% off coupon code (6001231) today. A lot of the durability
depends on the road maintenance in your area and tire size. Roadside
repairs are possible and any shop can true your wheels in 24 hours.

If you purchased a set of boutique wheels like Mavic SL then you'll
probably get sick of the hassles of fixing them and they may not last
6 months if you ride them often. If you put them on the shelf, they
have a shelf-life of many years I suppose ...

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Quoted message said:

Mike said:

I have just purchased a set of Mavic SL race wheels.

I am interested to know how many km are a good wheelset supposed to
last???

If you purchase a set of campy wheels with mavic open pro rims, then
I'd expect the hubs to last 40 years; the rims to last maybe 3-5 years
until you crash or hit a pothole large enough to pretzle them. These
wheels cost $269 shipped to your house from PerformanceBike if you use
the 20% off coupon code (6001231) today. A lot of the durability
depends on the road maintenance in your area and tire size. Roadside
repairs are possible and any shop can true your wheels in 24 hours.

If you purchased a set of boutique wheels like Mavic SL then you'll
probably get sick of the hassles of fixing them and they may not last
6 months if you ride them often. They will not last because you will
sell them on ebay to get rid of them. If you put them on the shelf,
they have a shelf-life almost as long as that of twinkies ...

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Also, another reason to have a pair of wheels dedicated to racing is
that you can keep the tires in top shape. As soon as my racing
clinchers get worn I take them off and reserve them for training (with
a tire liner).

JT

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Mike said:

I have just purchased a set of Mavic SL race wheels.

I am reasonable new to the sport and wondered why most people only get their
good wheels out to race. I do realise that the reason for this is to
increase the life of the wheel.

I am interested to know how many km are a good wheelset supposed to last???

Thanks

Problem is that some get stoopid light wheels to race on and hope they
last long enough. Many 'race wheels' are also tubular and some seem to
think those should only be raced on. A good set of wheels, designed and
built well, can be used for racing and training and should last for
years...

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike

Quoted message said:

I have just purchased a set of Mavic SL race wheels.

I am reasonable new to the sport and wondered why most people only get their
good wheels out to race. I do realise that the reason for this is to
increase the life of the wheel.

I am interested to know how many km are a good wheelset supposed to last???

Thanks

Mike,

Super light wheels come with the expense of super light material used
on the rims of the wheelset. Since rotational weight should be
minimized on racing wheels to improve acceleration from stop to go, the
most often ways all wheel builders do to shave off grams are to employ
light weight materials (super light aluminum) or carbon on the outer
edge of the wheels (rims). Which means, the braking area on the rim
would be thinner than say a normal rim. Thinner rims make for a
lighter wheel. But ofcourse, thinner rims make for a shorter lifespan
if you ride and brake a lot under extreme foul weather. Road sand and
grit that got stuck on the brake pads act as sand paper which will sand
away an already thin braking area on the rim..

That's why, race wheels are only to be used for racing to extend the
life span of these wheels.

However, TDF pros don't ride aluminium wheels anymore -- they ride
carbon aero tubulars. Now, carbon aero tubulars are a different breed
altogether. They are super expensive, require special brake pads and
don't stop all that well in wet weather compared to aluminium wheels.
Flat changing can be tough for a beginner who is used to clinchers.
Having said that, I know people who ride carbon aero tubies on
centuries and for training purposes and if they've got a flat, they
whip out those Tufo stickies and slap on a new tuby with the same time
as us clinchers change our flats. Rider weight restriction riding
these carbon tubies should be less than 200lbs.

David.

Mike said:

I am reasonable new to the sport and wondered why most people only
get their good wheels out to race. I do realise that the reason
for this is to increase the life of the wheel.

There's no way to answer that without knowing your weight, riding
style, and tires. Of those factors the most important is tires. If
you ride a fat tire the rims will last longer, much longer in some
cases. For example: I used a 32h GEL280 on the front wheel for
three years, and cycled many dirt roads on it, with no problems,
thanks to Vittoria Special Pave tires (27 or 28c depending on how
you measure them).

Since Vittoria no longer imports these fine tires, and there are no
other quality fat tubies, I'll likely be switching to clinchers for
training sometime soon. Probably run 25c Axial Carbons with light
rims when that happens.

--
Roger Marquis
http://www.roble.net/marquis/

Mike Medley said:

I have just purchased a set of Mavic SL race wheels.

Quoted message said:

I am reasonable new to the sport and wondered why most people only
get their good wheels out to race. I do realise that the reason for
this is to increase the life of the wheel.

I'm not so sure about that as a reason. I think it's more that these
wheels were bought because they promise the user some advantage that
other wheels do not have and that rather than use them daily under the
belief that wheels fail from use, they choose to ride conventional
wheels.

Quoted message said:

I am interested to know how many km are good wheels supposed to
last?

What sort of failures do you foresee that might end the life of these
wheels? If they are any good and you are not riding in wet weather,
they should outlast many tires or tens of thousands of kilometers. On
the other hand, in wet weather, and mountainous riding, brakes wear
through rim side walls in as little as 3000 km, dependent on how many
hard braking kilometers are encountered while it is raining.

From the way you ask, I think you should first do some riding and
become aware of what your regimen does to equipment. There is a
valuable learning time with any sport, and you cannot buy that. I
take it you haven't ridden much or you wouldn't ask. That you haven't
ridden much means you don't need to ask in the first place because
fancy wheels will not make any difference to the outcome of your
races, experience being far more important than sheer strength and
equipment, although advertising would let you believe that with
suitable equipment you will be a winner.

Jobst Brandt

David said:

Super light wheels come with the expense of super light material used
on the rims of the wheelset. Since rotational weight should be
minimized on racing wheels to improve acceleration from stop to go, the
most often ways all wheel builders do to shave off grams are to employ
light weight materials (super light aluminum) or carbon on the outer
edge of the wheels (rims).

Mass of bicycle and rider determines energy required to accelerate a
bicycle from 'stop to go'. Where the weight is on a wheel, altho
measurabe, is so teeny, is lost in the noise.

Which means, the braking area on the rim

Quoted message said:

would be thinner than say a normal rim. Thinner rims make for a
lighter wheel. But ofcourse, thinner rims make for a shorter lifespan
if you ride and brake a lot under extreme foul weather. Road sand and
grit that got stuck on the brake pads act as sand paper which will sand
away an already thin braking area on the rim..

..

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

David said:

Super light wheels come with the expense of super light material used
on the rims of the wheelset. Since rotational weight should be
minimized on racing wheels to improve acceleration from stop to go, the
most often ways all wheel builders do to shave off grams are to employ
light weight materials (super light aluminum) or carbon on the outer
edge of the wheels (rims).

Mass of bicycle and rider determines energy required to accelerate a
bicycle from 'stop to go'. Where the weight is on a wheel, altho
measurabe, is so teeny, is lost in the noise.

from rider to rider, yes, but for any individual, the rider is a
constant and the variable is the bike. for them, lighter gear makes a
difference.

Quoted message said:

Which means, the braking area on the rim

Quoted message said:

would be thinner than say a normal rim. Thinner rims make for a
lighter wheel. But ofcourse, thinner rims make for a shorter lifespan
if you ride and brake a lot under extreme foul weather. Road sand and
grit that got stuck on the brake pads act as sand paper which will sand
away an already thin braking area on the rim..

.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Mike Medley said:

I have just purchased a set of Mavic SL race wheels.

Quoted message said:

I am reasonable new to the sport and wondered why most people only
get their good wheels out to race. I do realise that the reason for
this is to increase the life of the wheel.

I'm not so sure about that as a reason. I think it's more that these
wheels were bought because they promise the user some advantage that
other wheels do not have and that rather than use them daily under the
belief that wheels fail from use, they choose to ride conventional
wheels.

Quoted message said:

I am interested to know how many km are good wheels supposed to
last?

What sort of failures do you foresee that might end the life of these
wheels? If they are any good and you are not riding in wet weather,
they should outlast many tires or tens of thousands of kilometers. On
the other hand, in wet weather, and mountainous riding, brakes wear
through rim side walls in as little as 3000 km, dependent on how many
hard braking kilometers are encountered while it is raining.

From the way you ask, I think you should first do some riding and
become aware of what your regimen does to equipment. There is a
valuable learning time with any sport, and you cannot buy that. I
take it you haven't ridden much or you wouldn't ask. That you haven't
ridden much means you don't need to ask in the first place because
fancy wheels will not make any difference to the outcome of your
races, experience being far more important than sheer strength and
equipment, although advertising would let you believe that with
suitable equipment you will be a winner.

Jobst: this is true, but wins and podiums at all categories of racing
are routinely decided by margins of victory that are less than the
calculated advantages that one wheel or another might confer over other
likely wheel choices.

The classic maxim holds true: lose five pounds off your body before you
buy a bike that weighs five pounds less. Do more workouts rather than
buy more go-fast equipment of any flavour.

But given that, the logical answer for why the expensive stuff only
comes out on race day is elementary: it's because usage and wear on days
where victory is even less meaningful than at a Cat 4 training crit is
best accumulated on cheaper equipment. This isn't so much an assertion
that racy wheels are fragile (though they can be) as that they are more
expensive. And that means more expensive to replace the rim (only this
weekend, a friend mentioned a price quote of $200 to re-rim his
Ksyriums; I point this out as a datum, not a damnation).

For my commuter bike, I use pedestrian rims that could be cheaply
replaced. For my racy bike, I use some race wheels that are cheaper than
any lighter wheels, and lighter than any cheaper wheels.

With gear in general, cyclists seem to be especially obsessed with
weight, well in excess of its actual effects on performance. On the
other hand, they are generally under-obsessed (er...) with aerodynamics.
I think this is mainly because it's hard to measure aero advantages
without specialized equipment.

But turning back to the specific gear at hand, I must say that Ksyriums
strike me as a bit much for what they are, unless those fatty spokes
really are especially aero. From a weight point of view they're nothing
special.

-RjC, closeted weight weenie.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

But turning back to the specific gear at hand, I must say that Ksyriums
strike me as a bit much for what they are, unless those fatty spokes
really are especially aero. From a weight point of view they're nothing
special.

They are probably ok from an aero view... according to Zipp's testing
they are nearly as good as the 202s until you have large sidewinds.

I calculated the speed difference to be nearly 0.5mph for high efforts
on a flat road... compared to a GL330 with 32 round spokes. As you
mentioned earlier this is not a small amount, and decent aero wheels
are a good idea if you are racing... but the same benefit could be had
for a lot less money than the Ksyriums.

jim beam said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

David said:

Super light wheels come with the expense of super light material used
on the rims of the wheelset. Since rotational weight should be
minimized on racing wheels to improve acceleration from stop to go, the
most often ways all wheel builders do to shave off grams are to employ
light weight materials (super light aluminum) or carbon on the outer
edge of the wheels (rims).

Mass of bicycle and rider determines energy required to accelerate a
bicycle from 'stop to go'. Where the weight is on a wheel, altho
measurabe, is so teeny, is lost in the noise.

from rider to rider, yes, but for any individual, the rider is a
constant and the variable is the bike. for them, lighter gear makes a
difference.

But since the weight of the gear is only about 10% of the total and
where the weight is on a wheel(the OPs point, and the subject of my
response), small weight differences make for small acceleration rates,
often more affected by breakfast for the rider than the weight of
anything. The rider is anything but constant, in terms of performance
day to day.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

jim beam said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

David wrote:

>Super light wheels come with the expense of super light material used
>on the rims of the wheelset. Since rotational weight should be
>minimized on racing wheels to improve acceleration from stop to go, the
>most often ways all wheel builders do to shave off grams are to employ
>light weight materials (super light aluminum) or carbon on the outer
>edge of the wheels (rims).

Mass of bicycle and rider determines energy required to accelerate a
bicycle from 'stop to go'. Where the weight is on a wheel, altho
measurabe, is so teeny, is lost in the noise.

from rider to rider, yes, but for any individual, the rider is a
constant and the variable is the bike. for them, lighter gear makes a
difference.

But since the weight of the gear is only about 10% of the total and
where the weight is on a wheel(the OPs point, and the subject of my
response), small weight differences make for small acceleration rates,
often more affected by breakfast for the rider than the weight of
anything. The rider is anything but constant, in terms of performance
day to day.

i understand the rider's individual performance is anything but constant
from day to day, but that's not the point and not what i was saying.
the rider is whatever they are. for /them/, regardless of condition or
breakfast, the lighter bike is easier to accelerate. it's pretty basic
physics.

jim beam said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

jim beam said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

>David wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

i understand the rider's individual performance is anything but constant
from day to day, but that's not the point and not what i was saying.
the rider is whatever they are. for /them/, regardless of condition or
breakfast, the lighter bike is easier to accelerate. it's pretty basic
physics.

No argument!! But the 'easier' is a small amount, my point. A 1 pound
lighter bicycle used how much less energy to accelerate than the
heavier one? 'easier' is a small 'e'....

This has drifted from the gent who said a heavy rim is much different
than a light rim, in terms of going from stop to go...which is also
small, small....

Roger Marquis said:

Since Vittoria no longer imports these fine tires, and there are no
other quality fat tubies, I'll likely be switching to clinchers for
training sometime soon.

Yellowjersey.org has the Challenge "Paris Roubaix", 27mm width, though
not cheap.