Exercise Program for Cyclists

Bill said:

Quoted message said:

No,
Got 100% on the stupid Army IQ test and was accused of cheating.
Who in the hell cheats to get drafted?

BTW, just to be accurate, no one volunteered to be drafted. One
volunteered to join, but the draft being a conscription process was
involuntary.

* con·scrip·tion (Pronunciation: k&n-'skrip-sh&n)
Function: noun
compulsory enrollment of persons especially for military service :
DRAFT

* draft (Pronunciation: 'draft, 'dr[a']ft)
Function: noun
9 a (1) : a system for or act of selecting individuals from a group (as
for compulsory military service) (2) : an act or process of selecting
an individual (as for political candidacy) without the individual's
expressed consent b : a group of individuals selected especially by
military draft

- rick, who joined to avoid reporting when drafted so he could avoid
infantry duty

My experience with the army during the Viet Nam era was that if you
could fog a mirror with your breath you made the cut.

Bill your preposterous anecdotes on not being accepted only adds to the
folklore about you. Well done!

gds said:

My experience with the army during the Viet Nam era was that if you
could fog a mirror with your breath you made the cut.

Bill your preposterous anecdotes on not being accepted only adds to the
folklore about you. Well done!

I think we should resurrect an old Dirty Harry line and apply it to
Bill:

"He's a legend in his own mind."

- rick

Rick said:

Bill said:

No,
Got 100% on the stupid Army IQ test and was accused of cheating.
Who in the hell cheats to get drafted?

BTW, just to be accurate, no one volunteered to be drafted. One
volunteered to join, but the draft being a conscription process was
involuntary.

Sorry, but to be 100% accurate, they were getting so much [censored] over the
draft that they came up with the plan of volunteering for the draft and
asking only 2 years instead of 3. The regulars looked down on the
involuntary draftees, but the voluntary draftees got some measure of
respect and one less year of Viet Nam. Basically I put myself on the
short list and hoped not to get called, but knew that if I did then I
could tolerate 2 years. Check your history a little better.

Quoted message said:

* con·scrip·tion (Pronunciation: k&n-'skrip-sh&n)
Function: noun
compulsory enrollment of persons especially for military service :
DRAFT

* draft (Pronunciation: 'draft, 'dr[a']ft)
Function: noun
9 a (1) : a system for or act of selecting individuals from a group (as
for compulsory military service) (2) : an act or process of selecting
an individual (as for political candidacy) without the individual's
expressed consent b : a group of individuals selected especially by
military draft

- rick, who joined to avoid reporting when drafted so he could avoid
infantry duty

OK, so you got out of the front line infantry by joining, I wanted to
join the Air Force but by the time I graduated high school in 1966 there
was a requirement for 2 years college and then a waiting list. The
recruiter told me the Air Force and the Navy were both overwhelmed with
guys who did not like the idea of wallowing in the mud while getting
shot at, and I was one of them. You may not have heard of it if you were
a regular but there really was a volunteer draft, maybe 6 months basic
and 18 months of mud and jungle. Most guys I know who went came back
very different, and some in boxes. That was a waste of a 'war'. We
should have just nuked Hanoi and dared the Chinese to do something about
it. Kind of like Iraq these days, people are getting sick of hearing
every day about more soldiers being killed over oil. At least we didn't
hear a daily report on 'Nam.
Bill Baka, done with off topic.

gds said:

My experience with the army during the Viet Nam era was that if you
could fog a mirror with your breath you made the cut.

Bill your preposterous anecdotes on not being accepted only adds to the
folklore about you. Well done!

Check the records for the Oakland induction center for about 1967. The
only guy who got outright turned down had his trigger finger cut off
while working at a pizza place. Five more got turned on when the other
half of the room had to bend over and 'spread them cheeks.'. As a fringe
benefit the bus taking us from San Jose broke down and we had to wait
for an hour for another bus to take us the rest of the way. No anecdote,
just facts here, no bike, no HRM, Pre-Lance being born even.
No [censored].
Bill Baka

Rick said:

gds said:

My experience with the army during the Viet Nam era was that if you
could fog a mirror with your breath you made the cut.

Bill your preposterous anecdotes on not being accepted only adds to the
folklore about you. Well done!

I think we should resurrect an old Dirty Harry line and apply it to
Bill:

"He's a legend in his own mind."

- rick

I could have joined the marines but I don't have "Stupid" on my forehead.
Bill

Rick said:

Bill said:

That may well hold true for the modern couch potato/gamer but not for my
generation who was looking at Viet Nam. I never made the military even
though I volunteered for the dreaded draft. Passed all the tests at the
Oakland pre-induction center but got a letter that my personality was at
odds with taking orders.
Figure that one out.

I don't think that comes as any surprise to any regular reader of this
group. Actually, seems rather consistent. How were things on the
Group W Bench (for those too young to understand that, you really must
listen to Arlo Guthrie's "Alice's Restaurant".

- rick

Great song, even at 27 minutes, and you had to listen to all the words
for it to make sense. I had it on an upscale reel to reel tape deck
hooked into an outrageous stereo. Didn't everyone have super component
systems back then?
Bill

Bill (Baka) said:

I could have joined the marines but I don't have "Stupid" on my
forehead.

It's in code. Get some 3D movie glasses and you'll see it.

(Shhh. No one tell him it's backwards, too, so he'll need a small mirror to
read it.)

Heh.

Bill said:

Rick said:

Bill said:

No,
Got 100% on the stupid Army IQ test and was accused of cheating.
Who in the hell cheats to get drafted?

BTW, just to be accurate, no one volunteered to be drafted. One
volunteered to join, but the draft being a conscription process was
involuntary.

Sorry, but to be 100% accurate, they were getting so much [censored] over the
draft that they came up with the plan of volunteering for the draft and
asking only 2 years instead of 3. The regulars looked down on the
involuntary draftees, but the voluntary draftees got some measure of
respect and one less year of Viet Nam. Basically I put myself on the
short list and hoped not to get called, but knew that if I did then I
could tolerate 2 years. Check your history a little better.

Bill,

I doubt if you know what accurate means. Your revisionist history does
not stand in the light of reality. I know, I was there, and have a
great grasp for facts and history. Now for some facts:

1) Everyone going into the military in that era had a 6 year
committment, draftee or voluntary. The difference was the active duty
segment; draftees got 2 years, volunteer committments were 2,3 or 4
(not counting re-enlistments).

2) *ALL* tours to Viet Nam were 1 year. There was no difference
between inductees and volunteers, no extra length for inductees. Only
a select few in special job categories got longer tours; I know, I was
one of those select few. My tours were 1 year each, they just inserted
a short reassignment to the states for 'training' between consecutive
tours. There were very few of us in that category, just those in
highly skilled job categories where they could not insert Joe Draftee.
BTW, I flew aerial recon missions for almost 3 years over there, have
the Air Medals to prove it. I worked directly out of 7th AF HQ, which
was the command center for SEAPAC, in other words where it all
happenned. I held a security clearance higher than you can imagine,
had access to ALL the highest levels of information, even had a direct
phone to the National Security Director during my last year there. I
*know* the Viet Nam era from the top down, so don't try to foist your
misinformation off on me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OK, so you got out of the front line infantry by joining, I wanted to
join the Air Force but by the time I graduated high school in 1966 there
was a requirement for 2 years college and then a waiting list. The
recruiter told me the Air Force and the Navy were both overwhelmed with
guys who did not like the idea of wallowing in the mud while getting
shot at, and I was one of them. You may not have heard of it if you were
a regular but there really was a volunteer draft, maybe 6 months basic
and 18 months of mud and jungle. Most guys I know who went came back
very different, and some in boxes. That was a waste of a 'war'. We
should have just nuked Hanoi and dared the Chinese to do something about
it. Kind of like Iraq these days, people are getting sick of hearing
every day about more soldiers being killed over oil. At least we didn't
hear a daily report on 'Nam.

Boy, you are out of touch with reality. We did get daily reports on
deaths for Viet Nam; that was the birth live war journalism. Lots of
the big names in journalism made their reputations during that period,
not the least of which was Dan Rather.

"Nuking Hanoi" was the solution proposed by Curtis LeMay, same solution
he recommended for Hiroshima and later Havana. That would have been
incredibly stupid. It would not have ended the war, it would have
killed thousands and poisoned the earth, but would have done nothing to
stop the war. The war was in the hearts of the people, it was
distributed in nature. Hanoi was the capital, but not the center of
the war. Anyone who knew the war or read the writing of Vo Nguyen Giap
(in Vietnames; I have) would understand that. Kennedy and McNamara had
come to that conclusion by '63 and were planning to withdraw. Watch '
Fog of War' someday, McNamara's comments might sink in. Further, you
intimate that China was controlling things. Nothing could be further
from the truth. China supplied some weapons but there was deep
animosity between the Vietnamese and Chinese; the two were at war
within weeks of the fall of Saigon (there was a popular song in Viet
Nam at the time by a singer, Khanh Ly, still popular in the US
Vietnamese community; the words, translated, said something to the
effect of 'a 1000 years as slaves of the Chinese, a 100 year as lackeys
of the French ...'; that was in South Viet Nam). The USSR was much more
involved, with thousands of 'advisors' on the ground in SEA to help the
Vietnamese, much more logistical support, too. [ironically, the guy I
work with most closely is Russian and his father was an advisor in Viet
Nam at the same time I was there ].

Again, there was no such thing as an 18 month tour to 'Nam for the
field soldiers. You are talking of things of which you have no
knowledge, but that is nothing new. As I suggested the other day, you
might want to do some research before posting 'facts'.

- rick

Rick said:

Bill said:

Rick said:

Bill wrote:

>No,
>Got 100% on the stupid Army IQ test and was accused of cheating.
>Who in the hell cheats to get drafted?

BTW, just to be accurate, no one volunteered to be drafted. One
volunteered to join, but the draft being a conscription process was
involuntary.

Sorry, but to be 100% accurate, they were getting so much [censored] over the
draft that they came up with the plan of volunteering for the draft and
asking only 2 years instead of 3. The regulars looked down on the
involuntary draftees, but the voluntary draftees got some measure of
respect and one less year of Viet Nam. Basically I put myself on the
short list and hoped not to get called, but knew that if I did then I
could tolerate 2 years. Check your history a little better.

Bill,

I doubt if you know what accurate means. Your revisionist history does
not stand in the light of reality. I know, I was there, and have a
great grasp for facts and history. Now for some facts:

1) Everyone going into the military in that era had a 6 year
committment, draftee or voluntary. The difference was the active duty
segment; draftees got 2 years, volunteer committments were 2,3 or 4
(not counting re-enlistments).

2) *ALL* tours to Viet Nam were 1 year. There was no difference
between inductees and volunteers, no extra length for inductees. Only
a select few in special job categories got longer tours; I know, I was
one of those select few. My tours were 1 year each, they just inserted
a short reassignment to the states for 'training' between consecutive
tours. There were very few of us in that category, just those in
highly skilled job categories where they could not insert Joe Draftee.
BTW, I flew aerial recon missions for almost 3 years over there, have
the Air Medals to prove it. I worked directly out of 7th AF HQ, which
was the command center for SEAPAC, in other words where it all
happenned. I held a security clearance higher than you can imagine,
had access to ALL the highest levels of information, even had a direct
phone to the National Security Director during my last year there. I
*know* the Viet Nam era from the top down, so don't try to foist your
misinformation off on me.

Quoted message said:

OK, so you got out of the front line infantry by joining, I wanted to
join the Air Force but by the time I graduated high school in 1966 there
was a requirement for 2 years college and then a waiting list. The
recruiter told me the Air Force and the Navy were both overwhelmed with
guys who did not like the idea of wallowing in the mud while getting
shot at, and I was one of them. You may not have heard of it if you were
a regular but there really was a volunteer draft, maybe 6 months basic
and 18 months of mud and jungle. Most guys I know who went came back
very different, and some in boxes. That was a waste of a 'war'. We
should have just nuked Hanoi and dared the Chinese to do something about
it. Kind of like Iraq these days, people are getting sick of hearing
every day about more soldiers being killed over oil. At least we didn't
hear a daily report on 'Nam.

Boy, you are out of touch with reality. We did get daily reports on
deaths for Viet Nam; that was the birth live war journalism. Lots of
the big names in journalism made their reputations during that period,
not the least of which was Dan Rather.

At least the daily reports were not with daily video and were not the
very first thing we saw every day on the news. The only thing that has
finally displaced Iraq is Katrina and the second hurricane, the one that
hit Texas.

Quoted message said:

"Nuking Hanoi" was the solution proposed by Curtis LeMay, same solution
he recommended for Hiroshima and later Havana. That would have been
incredibly stupid. It would not have ended the war, it would have
killed thousands and poisoned the earth, but would have done nothing to
stop the war. The war was in the hearts of the people, it was
distributed in nature. Hanoi was the capital, but not the center of
the war. Anyone who knew the war or read the writing of Vo Nguyen Giap
(in Vietnames; I have) would understand that. Kennedy and McNamara had
come to that conclusion by '63 and were planning to withdraw. Watch '
Fog of War' someday, McNamara's comments might sink in. Further, you
intimate that China was controlling things. Nothing could be further
from the truth. China supplied some weapons but there was deep
animosity between the Vietnamese and Chinese; the two were at war
within weeks of the fall of Saigon (there was a popular song in Viet
Nam at the time by a singer, Khanh Ly, still popular in the US
Vietnamese community; the words, translated, said something to the
effect of 'a 1000 years as slaves of the Chinese, a 100 year as lackeys
of the French ...'; that was in South Viet Nam). The USSR was much more
involved, with thousands of 'advisors' on the ground in SEA to help the
Vietnamese, much more logistical support, too. [ironically, the guy I
work with most closely is Russian and his father was an advisor in Viet
Nam at the same time I was there ].

Again, there was no such thing as an 18 month tour to 'Nam for the
field soldiers. You are talking of things of which you have no
knowledge, but that is nothing new. As I suggested the other day, you
might want to do some research before posting 'facts'.

You probably have me there since I did not go, but there was a volunteer
for the draft program. If I went through the pre-induction routine at
Oakland and was not a draftee, how do you explain that?
Bill

Quoted message said:

- rick

Bill Sornson said:

Bill (Baka) said:

I could have joined the marines but I don't have "Stupid" on my
forehead.

It's in code. Get some 3D movie glasses and you'll see it.

(Shhh. No one tell him it's backwards, too, so he'll need a small mirror to
read it.)

Heh.

Maybe for wasting my time with this group.
Bill

Bill said:

Rick wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Again, there was no such thing as an 18 month tour to 'Nam for the
field soldiers. You are talking of things of which you have no
knowledge, but that is nothing new. As I suggested the other day, you
might want to do some research before posting 'facts'.

You probably have me there since I did not go, but there was a volunteer
for the draft program. If I went through the pre-induction routine at
Oakland and was not a draftee, how do you explain that?

*ALL* people entering the military, involuntary (draftees) and
volunteers (not draftees) were processed through the same centers.
There was no need to replicate the functionality. When I went through
most of the folks were draftees, a minority were volunteers.

Re-read the definitions - there is no such thing as a volunteer
draftee, never was. Draftees were conscripts, involuntarily sent. You
could volunteer up to the date you were to report if you got a draft
notice. If you did volunteer, you were not a draftee (figure if I
write it enough time it might sink in). But if you had a notice and
volunteered to get out of it, some other poor slob got drafted so your
local draft board could make their quota.

- rick

Rick said:

Bill said:

Rick wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Again, there was no such thing as an 18 month tour to 'Nam for the
field soldiers. You are talking of things of which you have no
knowledge, but that is nothing new. As I suggested the other day, you
might want to do some research before posting 'facts'.

You probably have me there since I did not go, but there was a volunteer
for the draft program. If I went through the pre-induction routine at
Oakland and was not a draftee, how do you explain that?

*ALL* people entering the military, involuntary (draftees) and
volunteers (not draftees) were processed through the same centers.
There was no need to replicate the functionality. When I went through
most of the folks were draftees, a minority were volunteers.

Re-read the definitions - there is no such thing as a volunteer
draftee, never was. Draftees were conscripts, involuntarily sent. You
could volunteer up to the date you were to report if you got a draft
notice. If you did volunteer, you were not a draftee (figure if I
write it enough time it might sink in). But if you had a notice and
volunteered to get out of it, some other poor slob got drafted so your
local draft board could make their quota.

- rick

I am not going to bother searching all over the web for the info to
prove you wrong but it did happen.
End of story/thread, whatever.
Bill

Bill said:

Rick said:

Bill said:

Rick wrote:

Quoted message said:

>Again, there was no such thing as an 18 month tour to 'Nam for the
>field soldiers. You are talking of things of which you have no
>knowledge, but that is nothing new. As I suggested the other day, you
>might want to do some research before posting 'facts'.

You probably have me there since I did not go, but there was a volunteer
for the draft program. If I went through the pre-induction routine at
Oakland and was not a draftee, how do you explain that?

*ALL* people entering the military, involuntary (draftees) and
volunteers (not draftees) were processed through the same centers.
There was no need to replicate the functionality. When I went through
most of the folks were draftees, a minority were volunteers.

Re-read the definitions - there is no such thing as a volunteer
draftee, never was. Draftees were conscripts, involuntarily sent. You
could volunteer up to the date you were to report if you got a draft
notice. If you did volunteer, you were not a draftee (figure if I
write it enough time it might sink in). But if you had a notice and
volunteered to get out of it, some other poor slob got drafted so your
local draft board could make their quota.

- rick

I am not going to bother searching all over the web for the info to
prove you wrong but it did happen.
End of story/thread, whatever.

Ernest T. Bass,

Only in your mind. Which seems to be rather fertile ... hmmmmm.

- rick