kona bikes

in message <[email hidden]>, m0rk

(') said:

Anyone any experience of the Kona Smoke, Dew or Dew Deluxe?

http://www.macdonaldcycles.com/acatalog/Kona_City_Bikes.html

Look, don't keep poking at pretty pictures in catalogues, or you'll only
get another 'thing' to clutter up the back of the garage. What is is, in
a bike, that /you/ need? Ask that question first, sort out the answer,
and /then/ work out which manufacturer makes one.

But for the record, Smoke: poor value for money at this discount - a
Claud Butler Classic is better specced for £50 less
<URL:http://www.falconcycles.co.uk/2005/HYBRID/classicM.html>

Dew: marginal value for money at this discount - an Edinburgh Revolution
Courier Race is better specced for less
<URL:http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/> -> 'Revolution Urban Bikes'

Dew Deluxe: fashion victim's bike. Yes, the Hayes disks are quite nice,
but in urban conditions they confer absolutely no benefit and having
spent half the budget on the brakes the rest of the build kit really
isn't special at this price point.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

---===***<<< This space to let! >>>***===---
Yes! You, too, can SPAM in the Famous Brooke Rotating .sig!
---===***<<< Only $300 per line >>>***===---

"m0rk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone any experience of the Kona Smoke, Dew or Dew Deluxe?

http://www.macdonaldcycles.com/acatalog/Kona_City_Bikes.html

26" wheels roll slower than 700s. Even when fitted with slicks. Lots slower.

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"m0rk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone any experience of the Kona Smoke, Dew or Dew Deluxe?

http://www.macdonaldcycles.com/acatalog/Kona_City_Bikes.html

26" wheels roll slower than 700s. Even when fitted with slicks. Lots
slower.

Indeed. Well known fact. The end to end tandem record was on a bike fitted
with 700s for just that reason. Oops - no it wasn't, it was on a 26" wheeled
machine.

The fastest upright TT machines had full size (700/27"😉 front wheels for
that reason. Oops - no they didn't, they used 650 or 24" wheels.

Racing HPVs all use 700c wheels to go faster. Or do they? I think you might
be able to guess the answer.

Go and learn about the works of Dr Moulton. There's nothing intrinsically
slow about small wheels.

cheers,
clive

Doki said:

"m0rk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone any experience of the Kona Smoke, Dew or Dew Deluxe?

http://www.macdonaldcycles.com/acatalog/Kona_City_Bikes.html

26" wheels roll slower than 700s. Even when fitted with slicks. Lots
slower.

Just because they're wider with a bigger contact patch?

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck
MARS Flight Crew http://www.mars.org.uk/
UKRA #1108 Level 2 UYB
Tripoli UK Member #9527 LSMR

in message <[email hidden]>, Doki

(') said:

"m0rk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone any experience of the Kona Smoke, Dew or Dew Deluxe?

http://www.macdonaldcycles.com/acatalog/Kona_City_Bikes.html

26" wheels roll slower than 700s. Even when fitted with slicks. Lots
slower.

Do they? Really? They're only a couple of percent smaller in diameter.
Given similar tyres with similar pressures I'd expect nearly identical
performance - indeed, some time trialists use 650c front wheels
to /increase/ their speed.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Diplomacy, American: see Intelligence, Military

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Doki

(') said:

"m0rk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone any experience of the Kona Smoke, Dew or Dew Deluxe?

http://www.macdonaldcycles.com/acatalog/Kona_City_Bikes.html

26" wheels roll slower than 700s. Even when fitted with slicks. Lots
slower.

Do they? Really? They're only a couple of percent smaller in diameter.
Given similar tyres with similar pressures I'd expect nearly identical
performance - indeed, some time trialists use 650c front wheels
to /increase/ their speed.

There is an intrinsic slowerness about smaller wheels as regards rollng
resistance on anything other than a flat (ie perfectly smooth) road
with a completely elastic tyre. Smaller wheels lose energy qucker over
the small bumps, and there is a greater distortion of the tyre carcass,
again absorbing energy.

The tradeoff is that there is much reducd air resistance for a smaller,
thinner tyre, so for speed, even though a smaller tyre rolls 'slower'
you will travel faster AOTBE..

It is not a simple small = worse. What you lose on the roundabouts you
make up on the swings.

...d

Quoted message said:

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Diplomacy, American: see Intelligence, Military

"Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"m0rk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone any experience of the Kona Smoke, Dew or Dew Deluxe?

http://www.macdonaldcycles.com/acatalog/Kona_City_Bikes.html

26" wheels roll slower than 700s. Even when fitted with slicks. Lots
slower.

Indeed. Well known fact. The end to end tandem record was on a bike fitted
with 700s for just that reason. Oops - no it wasn't, it was on a 26"
wheeled machine.

Perhaps it's due to your average 26" rim being wider than a road rim. I can
tell you that Schwalbe city jets work a lot less well (harder to pedal and
less comfy) then similar width tyres on road bikes IME. I didn't intend to
suggest that it's all down to diameter.

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Perhaps it's due to your average 26" rim being wider than a road rim. I
can tell you that Schwalbe city jets work a lot less well (harder to pedal
and less comfy) then similar width tyres on road bikes IME. I didn't
intend to suggest that it's all down to diameter.

How different are the bikes otherwise? Position, handlehars, weight? These
will all dwarf the changes due to the differences between slicks.

cheers,
clive

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, m0rk

(') said:

Anyone any experience of the Kona Smoke, Dew or Dew Deluxe?

http://www.macdonaldcycles.com/acatalog/Kona_City_Bikes.html

Look, don't keep poking at pretty pictures in catalogues, or you'll only
get another 'thing' to clutter up the back of the garage. What is is, in
a bike, that /you/ need? Ask that question first, sort out the answer,
and /then/ work out which manufacturer makes one.

..... 🙁 but I like poking at pretty pictures in catalogues :-P

seriously ... the bikes I already have arn't upto the job and im not
upto sorting them out mechanically and paying someone else to do it will
still only end up with a poorly equiped cheap and nasty bike and doesnt
seem economical to me.

hence wanting a new one ... im not bothered about shiny fancy colours,
in fact id rather have higher quality components and a dull nondescript
colour.

Quoted message said:

But for the record, Smoke: poor value for money at this discount - a
Claud Butler Classic is better specced for £50 less
<URL:http://www.falconcycles.co.uk/2005/HYBRID/classicM.html>

Dew: marginal value for money at this discount - an Edinburgh Revolution
Courier Race is better specced for less
<URL:http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/> -> 'Revolution Urban Bikes'

Dew Deluxe: fashion victim's bike. Yes, the Hayes disks are quite nice,
but in urban conditions they confer absolutely no benefit and having
spent half the budget on the brakes the rest of the build kit really
isn't special at this price point.

I do need a push in the right direction as when I look at a list of
components it means didly squat to me .... one shimano this or that
doesnt tell me if it is better quality than this other shimano this or
that.

So, thanks for the recommendations

in message <[email hidden]>, m0rk

(') said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, m0rk

(') said:

Anyone any experience of the Kona Smoke, Dew or Dew Deluxe?

http://www.macdonaldcycles.com/acatalog/Kona_City_Bikes.html

Look, don't keep poking at pretty pictures in catalogues, or you'll
only get another 'thing' to clutter up the back of the garage. What is
is, in a bike, that /you/ need? Ask that question first, sort out the
answer, and /then/ work out which manufacturer makes one.

.... 🙁 but I like poking at pretty pictures in catalogues :-P

seriously ... the bikes I already have arn't upto the job and im not
upto sorting them out mechanically and paying someone else to do it
will still only end up with a poorly equiped cheap and nasty bike and
doesnt seem economical to me.

hence wanting a new one ... im not bothered about shiny fancy colours,
in fact id rather have higher quality components and a dull nondescript
colour.

OK, seriously, it may not sound like it but I am trying to help.

What motivates you? What are the things you get a buzz out of? I
understand you want to get cycling for exercise and to help you lose
weight and regain fitness, but actually just losing weight and regaining
fitness is a long tedious process with a lot of setbacks and long
periods when you don't see encouraging progress. Particularly if you're
getting fitter and trading fat for muscle, which is denser. So if you
don't get a buzz out of your cycling you won't go on doing it.

Do you like getting around the place and seeing pretty little villages
and stuff? If so, then the sort of hybrids you've been looking at may be
OK, but a tourer or a recumbent would allow you to do greater distances
in more comfort - which may be important if you're struggling with
weight problems.

Are you competitive and like comparing your performance against other
people? If so, some form of racing (probably, if weight is an issue,
time trialling) is what will get you going, and if so a proper time
trial bike is worth a lot of seconds.

Somewhere in the middle between those two is Audax -
not-really-competitive long distance events which really work for fat
burning, and again the right bike helps.

Are you motivated by skill and mastery? Do you like doing things which
are challenging and difficult, and working out how to tackle a problem
and overcome it? If so, the technical end of mountain biking would be a
good place to start, and you want a light hard-tail.

Are you an adrenaline junky? Do you like thrills and speed and risk? If
so get something with a couple of hundred millimetres suspension travel
at both ends and some body armour and go downhilling.

And again, there's a middle way between those two - what gets called 'all
mountain' or 'freeride': a bike strong enough and with enough suspension
travel to take seriously rough terrain in its stride, but still light
and responsive enough to ride up hills; and that's a bike on which you
can have a lot of fun.

A city hybrid is just a city hybrid. It's not going to be fast because
the riding position is too upright; it's not going to be comfortable on
long rides because it has flat bars; it's not going to be competent on
rough terrain. It's fine for relatively short commuting, utility or
recreational journeys in town, but frankly that isn't very exciting and,
like I say, if you don't find something that grabs you, that motivates
you to get off the sofa, then it's just going to moulder at the back of
the garage with the others.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Copyright (c) Simon Brooke; All rights reserved. Permission is
granted to transfer this message via UUCP or NNTP and to store it
for the purpose of archiving or further transfer. Permission is
explicitly denied to use this message as part of a 'Web Forum', or
to transfer it by HTTP.

Doki said:

Perhaps it's due to your average 26" rim being wider than a road rim. I can
tell you that Schwalbe city jets work a lot less well (harder to pedal and
less comfy) then similar width tyres on road bikes IME. I didn't intend to
suggest that it's all down to diameter.

I suspect that as the recumbent market increases and 26" road wheels
become more common, we'll see a wider range of tyres for them including
the narrower ones currently available for 700C.

Jon

"Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Perhaps it's due to your average 26" rim being wider than a road rim. I
can tell you that Schwalbe city jets work a lot less well (harder to
pedal and less comfy) then similar width tyres on road bikes IME. I
didn't intend to suggest that it's all down to diameter.

How different are the bikes otherwise? Position, handlehars, weight? These
will all dwarf the changes due to the differences between slicks.

The MTB was an XC bike, with a pretty decent setup position wise. The bike
with road wheels was what I'd call a town bike - high handlebars, upright
position, and heavier than the XC bike.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, m0rk

(') said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, m0rk
([email hidden]'😉 wrote:

> Anyone any experience of the Kona Smoke, Dew or Dew Deluxe?
>
> http://www.macdonaldcycles.com/acatalog/Kona_City_Bikes.html

Look, don't keep poking at pretty pictures in catalogues, or you'll
only get another 'thing' to clutter up the back of the garage. What is
is, in a bike, that /you/ need? Ask that question first, sort out the
answer, and /then/ work out which manufacturer makes one.

.... 🙁 but I like poking at pretty pictures in catalogues :-P

seriously ... the bikes I already have arn't upto the job and im not
upto sorting them out mechanically and paying someone else to do it
will still only end up with a poorly equiped cheap and nasty bike and
doesnt seem economical to me.

hence wanting a new one ... im not bothered about shiny fancy colours,
in fact id rather have higher quality components and a dull nondescript
colour.

OK, seriously, it may not sound like it but I am trying to help.

What motivates you? What are the things you get a buzz out of? I
understand you want to get cycling for exercise and to help you lose
weight and regain fitness, but actually just losing weight and regaining
fitness is a long tedious process with a lot of setbacks and long
periods when you don't see encouraging progress. Particularly if you're
getting fitter and trading fat for muscle, which is denser. So if you
don't get a buzz out of your cycling you won't go on doing it.

Do you like getting around the place and seeing pretty little villages
and stuff? If so, then the sort of hybrids you've been looking at may be
OK, but a tourer or a recumbent would allow you to do greater distances
in more comfort - which may be important if you're struggling with
weight problems.

Are you competitive and like comparing your performance against other
people? If so, some form of racing (probably, if weight is an issue,
time trialling) is what will get you going, and if so a proper time
trial bike is worth a lot of seconds.

Somewhere in the middle between those two is Audax -
not-really-competitive long distance events which really work for fat
burning, and again the right bike helps.

Are you motivated by skill and mastery? Do you like doing things which
are challenging and difficult, and working out how to tackle a problem
and overcome it? If so, the technical end of mountain biking would be a
good place to start, and you want a light hard-tail.

Are you an adrenaline junky? Do you like thrills and speed and risk? If
so get something with a couple of hundred millimetres suspension travel
at both ends and some body armour and go downhilling.

And again, there's a middle way between those two - what gets called 'all
mountain' or 'freeride': a bike strong enough and with enough suspension
travel to take seriously rough terrain in its stride, but still light
and responsive enough to ride up hills; and that's a bike on which you
can have a lot of fun.

A city hybrid is just a city hybrid. It's not going to be fast because
the riding position is too upright; it's not going to be comfortable on
long rides because it has flat bars; it's not going to be competent on
rough terrain. It's fine for relatively short commuting, utility or
recreational journeys in town, but frankly that isn't very exciting and,
like I say, if you don't find something that grabs you, that motivates
you to get off the sofa, then it's just going to moulder at the back of
the garage with the others.

Ah ... ok ... I see where your coming from now. Thinking cap on.

Well ... I guess for me its the fact of just being out there, under my
own power, generally seeing things differently from when im driving
around .. doesnt need to be pretty landscapes or country village
although I do get that feeling when in that surrounding of ... oooh isnt
it nice to be alive - providing it isnt hammering down with rain and im
freezing me bits off.

I get the most buzz from completing longer rides - the longest I did way
back was a Birmingham - London charity ride put on by a group of sikh's
where we cycled from Birmingham to Luton, stayed over in a sikh temple
and continued on to London the following day - about 85 miles the first
day and 45 the next - we returned by coach, that was a very
interestingly different ride.

Longer term I guess thats the sort of riding I want to do, not charity
riding specifically ...... mainly day rides to here or there.

So, putting brain into gear the tourer is the sort of bike I probably
should be going for ... when trying to get back into cycling before I
never did go for tourer because of price and that thought must have
lodged as I havent priced up current tourers although have looked
longingly at some of those pretty pictures in catalogues!

"m0rk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, putting brain into gear the tourer is the sort of bike I probably
should be going for ... when trying to get back into cycling before I
never did go for tourer because of price and that thought must have
lodged as I havent priced up current tourers although have looked
longingly at some of those pretty pictures in catalogues!

Being a formerly hugely obese person, I find my tourer could take my weight
without hassle. Even when it had me and full panniers to cope with 🙂 It's
still my 'everyday bike' Indeed Gino is so well-used he's now in need of a
respray.

Cheers, helen s

m0rk said:

I get the most buzz from completing longer rides - the longest I did way
back was a Birmingham - London charity ride put on by a group of sikh's
where we cycled from Birmingham to Luton, stayed over in a sikh temple
and continued on to London the following day - about 85 miles the first
day and 45 the next - we returned by coach, that was a very
interestingly different ride.

Longer term I guess thats the sort of riding I want to do, not charity
riding specifically ...... mainly day rides to here or there.

So, putting brain into gear the tourer is the sort of bike I probably
should be going for ... when trying to get back into cycling before I
never did go for tourer because of price and that thought must have
lodged as I havent priced up current tourers although have looked
longingly at some of those pretty pictures in catalogues!

Sounds like a tourer/Audax style bike then. Fast[1] but comfortable on
the roads. Able to carry loads and generally a pleasure to ride without
being too demanding in terms of handling.

The sort of bike I'd like as midway between my road bike (oout and out
race geometry) and MTB (too laid back and sluggish really for good road
riding) though I have done long rides on both.

...d

"m0rk" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A city hybrid is just a city hybrid. It's not going to be fast because
the riding position is too upright; it's not going to be comfortable on
long rides because it has flat bars;

I'm interested in the "not going to be comfortable on long rides because it
has flat bars" bit.
Could you elaborate. I've only ever done much riding with flat bars and
always found drops on borrowed bikes awkward.
Maybe I should persist?

"POHB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"m0rk" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A city hybrid is just a city hybrid. It's not going to be fast because
the riding position is too upright; it's not going to be comfortable on
long rides because it has flat bars;

I'm interested in the "not going to be comfortable on long rides because
it has flat bars" bit.
Could you elaborate. I've only ever done much riding with flat bars and
always found drops on borrowed bikes awkward.
Maybe I should persist?

I'd not used drops until my personal bike mechanic bought me Gino. Prior to
that, the bikes I'd owned had flat bars. It took a while to get used to
drops - but now I am I'd not willingly go back to flat bars. On a long ride
drops offer so many more places to put your hands so it's just more
comfortable over a long ride.

Cheers, helen s

wafflycat said:

I'd not used drops until my personal bike mechanic bought me Gino. Prior
to that, the bikes I'd owned had flat bars. It took a while to get used
to drops - but now I am I'd not willingly go back to flat bars. On a
long ride drops offer so many more places to put your hands so it's just
more comfortable over a long ride.

It's a chicken and egg thing to some extent though. On many flat barred
bikes the seating position is more upright, so less weight goes on your
arms, so there's less need for a load of different positions for your
hands. The more leaned forwards you are for aerodynamics the more drops
become an asset, but also more of a requirement.

A sit up and beg bike doesn't have drop bars and is very comfortable
(given a good saddle), even on a long ride. Only one hand position is a
moot point, because they're not holding up any weight. But it certainly
isn't very quick into the wind, and if you're factoring in speed as well
then the drops start to look like a better option. Unless you go
recumbent of course, where the comfort increase improves your
aerodynamics too.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Last spring I test rode lots of hybrids in an effort to replace my
reasonably fast Ridgeback Genesis Day 00. A decent enough bike let down by
wheels that can't take London abuse (wheels replaced by supplier free of
charge with Mavic Cosmos).

I test rode it on a wet day and was impressed by the speed and stopping
power of it. So much so that I estimate I test rode it around London for
about 10 miles.
The brakes are excellent, but you won't notice how good they are until one
wet day you're on a bike that doesn't have hydraulics. The frame and build
give you great confidence and the rigid feel really lets you put down the
power, legs allowing.

A little difference in speed in my commute going from the Day0 with 700x23
to the Dr Dew with 700x38, but that changed when I replaced the little
knobblies with Armadillo 700x28.

Rack takes some doing, may have problems getting mudguards to fit, maybe one
of Zefal's will do it.

Happy hunting

Bob.

"m0rk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone any experience of the Kona Smoke, Dew or Dew Deluxe?

http://www.macdonaldcycles.com/acatalog/Kona_City_Bikes.html

Im definately edging for a new bike, will ebay my other two not quite
suitable bikes - just not prepared to spend time with my poor mechanical
skills and will end up with a garage full of bits and no complete bike
to sell 😉

It will be mainly evening and weekend use, will want to have mudguards
for starters and to fit a rack later on.