Mudguard problem!

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:18:19 +0100, Dave B <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As winter set in I decided to replace my weedy crud guards with some
full length mudguards (SKS P65). My bike is a ridgeback cyclone with
26x1.6 wheels. (http://www.ridgebackbikes.co.uk/bikes/bike.asp?bikeID=193)

Good choice, you'll be amazed at how effective they are at keeping you
clean and dry.

Quoted message said:

Very fiddly, especially at the front because of plastic safety devices
(I had to use nuts as spacers to get the guard on straight), however I
got the front and back guards on and it looked good. All I needed to do
was reset my 'V' breaks and I was ready to go........ Aaahhhrg! It would
seem that my 'V' breaks do not fit with the guards! I cant close them!

Have I done something fundametally wrong (if so I can't see it!) or do I
have the wrong guards for the bike!

You're right that fitting mudguards is a fiddly job. It gets easier
once you've done it a few times but it's always a bit of a faff
aligning them properly. The good thing about SKS is that once fitted
they stay fitted, you'll probably not have to touch them from one year
to the next.

Now, your brakes, you say they won't close...

You've bought P65's, the medium width model, and I'd be very surprised
if they're too wide, so you probably just need to drop the guard down
a bit - it's common to have to do this.

Fitted directly to the hole in the fork steerer they will often foul
the brakes, so a drop bracket of some description is required. See
these photo's of mine:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gareth.evans490/Mudguards/

You just need a bit of stock with a couple of holes in it, use it to
extend the mudguard fixing tab/wotsit. If you haven't got something
suitable kicking about then a local hardware store should sort you
out.

It's usually only a problem at the front, but I suppose the rear might
need similar attention on some bikes.

Incidently, you've used nuts to space the front Secu-clips away from
the forks... whenever I've had that problem I've just carved a bit of
the plastic away with a stanley knife until the clip will sit flush on
its own. Just another approach to consider.

Post again if I've misunderstood your problem and have therefore been
bugger all help 😉

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

Call me Bob said:

You're right that fitting mudguards is a fiddly job. It gets easier
once you've done it a few times but it's always a bit of a faff
aligning them properly. The good thing about SKS is that once fitted
they stay fitted, you'll probably not have to touch them from one year
to the next.

Now, your brakes, you say they won't close...

You've bought P65's, the medium width model, and I'd be very surprised
if they're too wide, so you probably just need to drop the guard down
a bit - it's common to have to do this.

Fitted directly to the hole in the fork steerer they will often foul
the brakes, so a drop bracket of some description is required. See
these photo's of mine:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gareth.evans490/Mudguards/

You just need a bit of stock with a couple of holes in it, use it to
extend the mudguard fixing tab/wotsit. If you haven't got something
suitable kicking about then a local hardware store should sort you
out.

It's usually only a problem at the front, but I suppose the rear might
need similar attention on some bikes.

Yippee! :-) Yes that's my problem exactly! I will need a drop bracket
on both the front and the rear. I'm off tomorrow, so a wee trip down to
my local hardware store is on the cards.

I should have thought of that but I was far to grumpy yesterday (my 13
week old son doesn't let me sleep quite as much these days!)

Quoted message said:

Incidently, you've used nuts to space the front Secu-clips away from
the forks... whenever I've had that problem I've just carved a bit of
the plastic away with a stanley knife until the clip will sit flush on
its own. Just another approach to consider.

Yes I did consider carving a bit of the plastic but I think I would have
needed to take too much off, so using the nuts as spacers seems to have
done the trick.

Quoted message said:

Post again if I've misunderstood your problem and have therefore been
bugger all help 😉

"Bob"

On the contrary! You have saved me buying another set of mudguards. Big
puddles here I come...... :-P

Cheers

Dave

Be those conti sport contacts I spy in those pics?

What's your impression of them?

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:39:00 +0100, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Be those conti sport contacts I spy in those pics?

Yus, 26 x 1.3.

Quoted message said:

What's your impression of them?

Pretty good. They don't have major mileage on them yet but so far I'm
very happy. Run at about 85psi they seem fast and grippy. I tried
these as an alternative to my usual Specialized FatBoys and I'd gladly
recommend them.

They seem a bit heavier and thicker than the FatBoys, but also more
rugged. I've run them over plenty of [censored] surfaces and broken glass
with no sign of damage or punctures yet.

Incidently, I've just had an excellent experience with Continental
customer services, who replaced free of charge a pair of second hand
(but low mileage) tyres that I wasn't happy with. I'm definitely in
favour of giving my business to firms who support their products, so
that's another reason to recommend Sport Contacts.

My only grumble with these tyres is that they're a [censored] to get on
my rims. I also have a pair of 20" Sport Contacts on another bike and
they are a complete and utter [censored] to get on. Can't have it all,
eh?

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

Call me Bob said:

You're right that fitting mudguards is a fiddly job. It gets easier
once you've done it a few times but it's always a bit of a faff
aligning them properly. The good thing about SKS is that once fitted
they stay fitted, you'll probably not have to touch them from one year
to the next.

Now, your brakes, you say they won't close...

You've bought P65's, the medium width model, and I'd be very surprised
if they're too wide, so you probably just need to drop the guard down
a bit - it's common to have to do this.

Fitted directly to the hole in the fork steerer they will often foul
the brakes, so a drop bracket of some description is required. See
these photo's of mine:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gareth.evans490/Mudguards/

"Bob"

Thanks once again Bob for the advice. However, it was even more fiddly
than I imagined! I had to shorten the back mudguard as it was impinging
on my front gears, and I had to cut chunks out so that the breaks could
close! Is it normally this much of a faff to fit mudguards! Just as well
I am handy with a hacksaw, although I don't think anyone would want
themsecond hand!

Anyway they are on now, though they rattle a bit more than I would like.
I will see what I can tighten up tonight when I get home.

Cheers
Dave

Dave B said:

Is it normally this much of a faff to fit mudguards!

It depends on the bike setup. Where the manufacturer has not seen fit
to think about it, it can be a royal PITA. Of course, where the
manufacturer has thought about it they often come fitted in any case,
especially on urban utility bikes.

Unfortunately they are not "sporty", and many manufacturers seem to
think that selling stuff that isn't "sporty" is doomed in the UK market,
so they don't bother trying :-(

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

I fitted the new mudguards to my folder yesterday. The old ones were
of the "big loop at the end of the stays which goes behind the
wheelnut" type and as the new ones are the more conventional M5 Allen
key type I searched for P clips to no avail. Then I noticed that the
front forks had a perfectly good hole drilled in them already; the one
where those safety clip things locate into. So I simply dispensed with
the safety clips. Apart from a failsafe for riders who only do the nuts
up finger tight is there any reason for having the safety clips? they
are a fairly recent requirement.

MartinM said:

where those safety clip things locate into. So I simply dispensed with
the safety clips. Apart from a failsafe for riders who only do the nuts
up finger tight is there any reason for having the safety clips? they
are a fairly recent requirement.

A nasty accident is possible without the safety clips. It is possible
for a tyre to pick up some rubbish/twig/whatever that will then jam
between the mudguard and the tyre resulting in an unexpected emergency
stop, and subsequent loss of control (even over the handle bars).

The idea of the safety clips is to prevent wheel locking. However
unless you are unlucky there is no problem directly attaching the
mudguard directly afterall thats how millions of people have done it
for years.

Ian Blake said:

MartinM said:

where those safety clip things locate into. So I simply dispensed with
the safety clips. Apart from a failsafe for riders who only do the nuts
up finger tight is there any reason for having the safety clips? they
are a fairly recent requirement.

A nasty accident is possible without the safety clips. It is possible
for a tyre to pick up some rubbish/twig/whatever that will then jam
between the mudguard and the tyre resulting in an unexpected emergency
stop, and subsequent loss of control (even over the handle bars).

The idea of the safety clips is to prevent wheel locking. However
unless you are unlucky there is no problem directly attaching the
mudguard directly afterall thats how millions of people have done it
for years.

No these safety clips are nothing to do with the mudguard; there are
extra washers inside the nuts with a lug which locates into a hole in
the fork; thus the wheel nut needs to undo several turns before the
wheel can slided out of the bottom of the fork, in fact the lug needs
to be released by hand. Alloy/carbon forks with quick release use a
recessed dropout or moulded lugs below the axle for the same purpose.

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:14:49 +0100, Ian Blake <NoNotMe@NotAnywhere>

Quoted message said:

A nasty accident is possible without the safety clips. It is possible
for a tyre to pick up some rubbish/twig/whatever that will then jam
between the mudguard and the tyre resulting in an unexpected emergency
stop, and subsequent loss of control (even over the handle bars).

I should add. With flexible mudguards (eg modern SKS) the blade can
be accidently kicked in to the tyre and the edge of the guard will
catch in the tread. The mudguard will fold up and jam between the fork
crown resulting in the sudden unexpected lock up. Chris Juden of the
CTC highlighted this problem a few years ago. ESGE/SKS then produced
the safety clip solution which would unclip preventing the problem.

Peter Clinch said:

It depends on the bike setup. Where the manufacturer has not seen fit
to think about it, it can be a royal PITA. Of course, where the
manufacturer has thought about it they often come fitted in any case,
especially on urban utility bikes.

Unfortunately they are not "sporty", and many manufacturers seem to
think that selling stuff that isn't "sporty" is doomed in the UK
market, so they don't bother trying :-(

Pete.

I blame you Peter, itwas you that recommended full mudguards to me! ;-)

I'm just waiting for some heavy rain to test them out, I don't think
I'll have to wait long.....

Cheers

Dave

Dave B said:

I blame you Peter, itwas you that recommended full mudguards to me! ;-)

It was, and I think you'll be glad of spending the time hacking them a
bit once it gets wet. Which we both know full well *will* happen in
Glasgow... ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Simon Brooke said:

We're talking /very/ cheap'n'nasty Chinese or Vietnamese bike, here. Yes,

Yes, probably; it's Giant (Called a Folding, not a Halfway or anything
that good) but I think most of the money (£249) went on the snazzy
alloy folding frame; the front forks are very nasty indeed. It hasn't
even got a folding stem, just a stem with a lever instead of a nut and
you yank the whole stem out or turn it sideways. It _seemed_ like in
good buy in the LBS compared to the horrible Phillips offerings.

Quoted message said:

I've seen the things you refer to, but they aren't common. You don't
need them and can safely take them off, provided you remember to do up
the quick release or (more probably, on a bike at this level) wheel nuts

That's what I thought, thanks.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

MartinM (') said:

No these safety clips are nothing to do with the mudguard; there are
extra washers inside the nuts with a lug which locates into a hole in
the fork;

to which Simon Brooke responded:

Quoted message said:

We're talking /very/ cheap'n'nasty Chinese or Vietnamese bike, here. Yes,
I've seen the things you refer to, but they aren't common. You don't
need them and can safely take them off, provided you remember to do up
the quick release or (more probably, on a bike at this level) wheel nuts
adequately tightly.

Unless I am very much mistaken I've got those on my Brompton. That is
neither Chinese, Vietnamese or even cheap'n'nasty.

--
Chris

According to all the latest reports, there was no truth in any of the
earlier reports.

Chris Slade said:

Unless I am very much mistaken I've got those on my Brompton. That is
neither Chinese, Vietnamese or even cheap'n'nasty.

well it's certainly not the first 3 ;-) I did weigh up the cheapo (C?)
Brompton but the Giant won hands down on spec and price. I've only had
to fold it about 4 times in 18 months so size not an immense promble.