Danielson moves up...

There's too big a gap between Danielson and those in front of him to
make up now. He will finish in 8th unless something happens to drop him
lower.

His TT skills are really good but everyone in the top 10 except Heras
can be considered a TT threat.

What is amazing is Heras TT performances over the last two years.
(Well, his good performances which are WAY better than anything he ever
did before. I guess that wind-tunnel testing he did made a huge impact
on him.)

YEA HERAS!!!

Tom Kunich said:

What is amazing is Heras TT performances over the last two years.
(Well, his good performances which are WAY better than anything he ever
did before. I guess that wind-tunnel testing he did made a huge impact
on him.)

That may be true, but then it may be not. The young pre-USP Heras was
not that bad at TTs when in form
Giro 1999, stage 9, Ancona - Ancona ITT, 31 kms:
20. Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 2.18
Giro 1999, Stage 18, Treviso - Treviso ITT, 45 kms:
22. Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 3.20
Tour 2000, Stage 19 - July 21: Fribourg-En-Brisgau - Mulhouse, 58.5 km

19 Roberto Heras (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 5.07
Vuelta 2000, Stage 21 - September 17: Madrid-Madrid ITT, 38 km
9 Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 1.59

Sure he's improved, but IMO maturing as a rider was as much a factro as
wind-tunnel testing.

Jenko

Jenko said:

Sure he's improved, but IMO maturing as a rider was as much a factro as
wind-tunnel testing.

Jenko

Like when Pantani started placing highly in time trials?

Dan

It is a bit discouraging to say the least to see the implications of
doping opening pinned on any rider who does better that the others.

You know, we used to have this summer evening ride. Everyone showed up
and I would ride in the group up to the top of this road with a slight
rise and then we'd bomb back. I was always riding on or near the front
on most days and was always in the pack at the sprint.

Now in the first 100 yards they drop me. Where we used to hit 28 mph
everyone else is now hitting 32 mph. Where we used to brag about being
able to hit 32 a couple of the guys are now saying 38 mph. My times are
the same or even a little better now but the group is so much faster
that we are on separate rides.

So is this due to doping?

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is a bit discouraging to say the least to see the implications of
doping opening pinned on any rider who does better that the others.

You know, we used to have this summer evening ride. Everyone showed up
and I would ride in the group up to the top of this road with a slight
rise and then we'd bomb back. I was always riding on or near the front
on most days and was always in the pack at the sprint.

Now in the first 100 yards they drop me. Where we used to hit 28 mph
everyone else is now hitting 32 mph. Where we used to brag about being
able to hit 32 a couple of the guys are now saying 38 mph. My times are
the same or even a little better now but the group is so much faster
that we are on separate rides.

So is this due to doping?

No, it's due to a lack of doping 🙂

Tom Kunich said:

It is a bit discouraging to say the least to see the implications of
doping opening pinned on any rider who does better that the others.

Generally the pinning occurs when a mature rider shows sudden improvement,
such as when he suddenly starts to excel at a discipline at which he previously
did not.

And, in any case, I never said anything about doping, simply that Heras'
sudden aptitude in time trials reminded me of Pantani's same improvement
around 1997-1998.

Dan

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

It is a bit discouraging to say the least to see the implications of
doping opening pinned on any rider who does better that the others.

Generally the pinning occurs when a mature rider shows sudden improvement,
such as when he suddenly starts to excel at a discipline at which he
previously
did not.

However, there were plenty of articles about Heras using the wind tunnel at
Texas and about Lance trying to make sure that they didn't get too effective
in Heras case because they didn't want him "getting ideas". And also the
improvements in Heras TT date from this same time. And since they Heras has
shown steady improvement in his TT ability. Also add the fact that this was
an insanely difficult Vuelta and that Heras obviously was having a good day
here and there and you have to wonder why those who turned in such great
times are being denigrated instead of congratulated.

Why would anyone suggest that Heras was cheating because he turned in an
trophy time whereas Pena not? Where do we draw the line at doping
suspicions? 5th place? 7th place? 20th? Or maybe we can use the Lafferty
Standard and just say "Everyone cheats"?

Quoted message said:

And, in any case, I never said anything about doping, simply that Heras'
sudden aptitude in time trials reminded me of Pantani's same improvement
around 1997-1998.

And of COURSE that wasn't an implication. Come on Dan!

Dan Connelly said:

And, in any case, I never said anything about doping, simply that Heras'
sudden aptitude in time trials reminded me of Pantani's same improvement
around 1997-1998.

Delgado, Virenque, Simoni* also had a comparable improvement. I believe
Van Impe was a similar case. They are all riders that only learned how
to keep a high and steady pace in the flats late in their careers. The
wattage they had it from the beginning.

Jenko, who is not aware of any doping technique that only improves
performance in TTs