Trainer

wackydeirdre said:

What is the best and most inexpensive trainer (the kind I can put my road bike onto and the kids mountain bikes for winter exercise). I need to continue training through the winter if I want any hope of racing in the spring.

Best and most inexpensive might be somewhat self-defeating in this case. I am not a racer, but I did research trainers last year, and bought mine.

I have a Kurt Kinetic that I like.

One caution with this (and I believe most trainers) is I understand that it is best to use smooth tires on them. This may preclude the mountain bikes.

You can probably do a search and find the benefits of the various types of trainers. But in a nutshell, this is my understanding:

Wind trainers: Inexpensive and noisy

Magnetic trainers: Moderately priced. Some require a switching between intensity levels. Some with a wired remote so you can adjust while you ride, some by getting off and setting them.

Fluid trainers: Expensive. Tend to automatically adjust intensity by providing more resistance the faster you go, so shifting the bike is your adjustment method.

I do recall seeing a friction type trainer, but I don't know anything about it.

It is my understanding that for race training, many prefer rollers, so that you also automatically work on holding your line etc... but these would probably not be great for the kids.

Good luck!

try going to your local shop - a lot of them set up trainers on the floor to sell them, fit people on bikes, teach people how to use clipless pedals, etc. inevitably they need to replace them with the new models. now would be the time to check with your local shops to see if any are getting rid of "last years" stock. in the US the Vegas trade show is in a couple weeks and a lot of companies have already released their new stuff, esp for trainers which come into season right now.

good luck
cdr

*edit* the Cyclops trainer I bought (off season, leftover, etc etc) came with a skewer especially for the trainer. It's the first trainer that has absolutely no movement between the bike and trainer. I've owned trainers since the RacerMate2, have ridden the Velodyne, Technogym, and numerous rear wheel mount trainers. For rear wheel mounts, this trainer is the most stable I've ridden. I do rides up to 4 hours on it during the winter and even now ride it weekly due to my work schedule.

for tires for the mountain bike, local shops will probably have either a take off or for smaller kids bikes, street BMX bike tires. knobbies won't work.

dgregory57 said:

Best and most inexpensive might be somewhat self-defeating in this case. I am not a racer, but I did research trainers last year, and bought mine.

I have a Kurt Kinetic that I like.

One caution with this (and I believe most trainers) is I understand that it is best to use smooth tires on them. This may preclude the mountain bikes.

You can probably do a search and find the benefits of the various types of trainers. But in a nutshell, this is my understanding:

Wind trainers: Inexpensive and noisy

Magnetic trainers: Moderately priced. Some require a switching between intensity levels. Some with a wired remote so you can adjust while you ride, some by getting off and setting them.

Fluid trainers: Expensive. Tend to automatically adjust intensity by providing more resistance the faster you go, so shifting the bike is your adjustment method.

I do recall seeing a friction type trainer, but I don't know anything about it.

It is my understanding that for race training, many prefer rollers, so that you also automatically work on holding your line etc... but these would probably not be great for the kids.

Good luck!

Dear Giant buddy,
I have an OCR 3 and love it, how do you like yours?
Thanks for the trainer info. I looked at a roller online last night, Don't think I'd be very comfortable with one. Also looked at kinectic. I like those better. I was looking at the tires last night after my daughter said it seemed like the cycle would require pegs in order to be able to use that type of trainer. She turned out to be correct (peg holes anyway). I will check into it further though. They must make some for both as many people both road and mountain bike

carpediemracing said:

try going to your local shop - a lot of them set up trainers on the floor to sell them, fit people on bikes, teach people how to use clipless pedals, etc. inevitably they need to replace them with the new models. now would be the time to check with your local shops to see if any are getting rid of "last years" stock. in the US the Vegas trade show is in a couple weeks and a lot of companies have already released their new stuff, esp for trainers which come into season right now.

good luck
cdr

*edit* the Cyclops trainer I bought (off season, leftover, etc etc) came with a skewer especially for the trainer. It's the first trainer that has absolutely no movement between the bike and trainer. I've owned trainers since the RacerMate2, have ridden the Velodyne, Technogym, and numerous rear wheel mount trainers. For rear wheel mounts, this trainer is the most stable I've ridden. I do rides up to 4 hours on it during the winter and even now ride it weekly due to my work schedule.

for tires for the mountain bike, local shops will probably have either a take off or for smaller kids bikes, street BMX bike tires. knobbies won't work.

great Idea! Do mountain riders generally not keep it up in the winter to keep form or is it just us crazy roadies? My initial thought was the mountain bikers would want to keep going so they don't have to train all over again in spring. I suppose a smooth ride is no substitute to rough terrain but we arent exactly dodging cars animals and looking out for people in our livingrooms, are we?

wackydeirdre said:

Dear Giant buddy,
I have an OCR 3 and love it, how do you like yours?
Thanks for the trainer info. I looked at a roller online last night, Don't think I'd be very comfortable with one. Also looked at kinectic. I like those better. I was looking at the tires last night after my daughter said it seemed like the cycle would require pegs in order to be able to use that type of trainer. She turned out to be correct (peg holes anyway). I will check into it further though. They must make some for both as many people both road and mountain bike

My Sedona has treated me well. I replaced the tires with smooth road tires, but otherwise I just pedal and it just keeps going.

I will be switching, and using it as a commuter bike, and start riding a cheap drop bar bike (the Univega) in the spring for some increased efficiency to do an imperial century next year (I did a metric century on my Sedona last October, but haven't spent the time in the saddle I had hoped to this year).

Toward the end of next year I was expecting to upgrade, and I was thinking of an OCR 2 or 3, along with some similar bikes from other manufacturers still on the list. I do like the LBS I use, and they sell Giants (although I bought my current bike on the west coast)

I am leaning toward the OCR 3 instead of 2 because I am cheap.... How do you like the OCR 3? How often do you wonder if you should have bought the OCR 2?

dgregory57 said:

My Sedona has treated me well. I replaced the tires with smooth road tires, but otherwise I just pedal and it just keeps going.

I will be switching, and using it as a commuter bike, and start riding a cheap drop bar bike (the Univega) in the spring for some increased efficiency to do an imperial century next year (I did a metric century on my Sedona last October, but haven't spent the time in the saddle I had hoped to this year).

Toward the end of next year I was expecting to upgrade, and I was thinking of an OCR 2 or 3, along with some similar bikes from other manufacturers still on the list. I do like the LBS I use, and they sell Giants (although I bought my current bike on the west coast)

I am leaning toward the OCR 3 instead of 2 because I am cheap.... How do you like the OCR 3? How often do you wonder if you should have bought the OCR 2?

I never have seen an OCR 2 but never look back either. I love my OCR 3 and put at least 15 miles a day on it no matter what the weather. I put blinking lights on it for low visibility weather so I am seen, 2 cages for water, a pump, a bag with a spare tube on back, and a cateye w/cadance computer, and speedplay pedals. I'm set and love my bike! I probably take better care of it than I do my car ~yes, definetly! Since I began riding I also realized how little I like driving. I do need to get the car in for a checkup though. A word of advice, When I bought my bike in November I knew nothing about bikes. The guy at the store said "if there's anything you want changed,pedals etc I'll do it now at no charge now. If you come back I'll have to charge you for it though so think about it before you leave". I had no Idea what to have changed and took it as was. I later regretted not having the pedals changed. The bike came with clips and straps.

wackydeirdre said:

I never have seen an OCR 2 but never look back either. I love my OCR 3 and put at least 15 miles a day on it no matter what the weather. I put blinking lights on it for low visibility weather so I am seen, 2 cages for water, a pump, a bag with a spare tube on back, and a cateye w/cadance computer, and speedplay pedals. I'm set and love my bike! I probably take better care of it than I do my car ~yes, definetly! Since I began riding I also realized how little I like driving. I do need to get the car in for a checkup though. A word of advice, When I bought my bike in November I knew nothing about bikes. The guy at the store said "if there's anything you want changed,pedals etc I'll do it now at no charge now. If you come back I'll have to charge you for it though so think about it before you leave". I had no Idea what to have changed and took it as was. I later regretted not having the pedals changed. The bike came with clips and straps.

Good news for me... I can't imagine I am going to move up to the OCR 2 now since I can save myself a couple of hundred bucks. The difference between the two is basically some upgrade of components, but basically the same bike. And since I am happy with my components which I think are a level below what is on the OCR 3, then I should be happy with it too. Of course, I do tend to be a geek about wanting the best I can afford, but at least now I have a chance of fighting the urge to buy higher up the scale.

Thanks for the feedback!

dgregory57 said:

Good news for me... I can't imagine I am going to move up to the OCR 2 now since I can save myself a couple of hundred bucks. The difference between the two is basically some upgrade of components, but basically the same bike. And since I am happy with my components which I think are a level below what is on the OCR 3, then I should be happy with it too. Of course, I do tend to be a geek about wanting the best I can afford, but at least now I have a chance of fighting the urge to buy higher up the scale.

Thanks for the feedback!

What exactly are the upgraded components? After my reply to you I looked at the OCR's and only see a slight difference. ...And then there is the OCR 1 which has a huge price difference but I only see slight differences there as well. You'd think it had a carbon frame. What color are you getting, pinkish red? One thing I would suggest is to go to a larger bike shop where they measure your dimensions and build the bike specifically to your body. I was at a shop last spring that did that and they actually charged less than I paid for my bike. Probably because they sell in such volume. They also had every shoe in every size which was important for me (and the reason I was there to begin with) because my feet are so wierd. I ended up getting Specialized road shoes with speedplay cleats. I have a previous injury from a ski accident where I severed a ligament in my left leg and really like the float they give. You just need to keep on top of them lubrication wise. Cycling has been wonderful for my leg - that and weight loss. Cycling mostly though. A doctor told me many years ago I could compensate for the missing ligament by exercising the muscles surrounding my knee. I did at the time and got it into shape but then I got pregnant, and then I got pregnant, and then I got pregnant, and then I got pregnant with twins. I had 5 children under the age of 5 - 3 of them in diapers. One day I was doing my very literal running around the house just to get things done (oh, did I mention I've been a single mom since the twins were born?) my mom rang the bell and I jumped down half a flight of stairs re injuring my leg (no time for thinking back in those days, I was always too busy doing). To make an even longer story short. Cycling has made my leg strong enough to run again, this time for fun!😄 I played kickball last spring with my sons classes. I even scored a run one day! I was very proud of myself. I'm not sure any of the parents knew what to make of it but there you are. I still wear a knee stabilizer to prevent further injury, but get this I'm gearing up to begin racing next spring, isn't it awesome? I'm going to ride in the Guide Dog Foundation fund raiser this weekend and am very psyched about it! 😎Sorry for going so totally off topic, we were talking about OCR's right?

wackydeirdre said:

What exactly are the upgraded components? After my reply to you I looked at the OCR's and only see a slight difference. ...And then there is the OCR 1 which has a huge price difference but I only see slight differences there as well. You'd think it had a carbon frame.

The components are the key... a lot of expense is invested in components.

The lower the number on the OCR model, the higher in the Shimano line the components are...

For an Ultegra rear derailleur (no cables, levers or anything) I see costs of $90... The components on the higher end bikes are ridiculously expensive. I would like to ride an Ultegra or Dura-Ace equipped bike to see what the fuss is about, but then I am afraid I would feel compelled to buy higher end.

I saw one place that had an Ultegra Road Set (all Ultegra level components) listed for over $1300... and this doesn't include a frame. Dura-Ace was $2100+ (Giant doesn't use Dura-Ace on the OCR, I was just curious)

That is $800 to move from next to the best, to the best... And other than knowing that this is the ranking, I have never had anyone describe what one gains by spending that much. In fact, I basically heard that unless you want to shave seconds off of a ride for racing that the higher end is not relevant to the typical rider.

[quote="dgregory57"]The components are the key... a lot of expense is invested in components.

The lower the number on the OCR model, the higher in the Shimano line the components are...

For an Ultegra rear derailleur (no cables, levers or anything) I see costs of $90... The components on the higher end bikes are ridiculously expensive. I would like to ride an Ultegra or Dura-Ace equipped bike to see what the fuss is about, but then I am afraid I would feel compelled to buy higher end.

I saw one place that had an Ultegra Road Set (all Ultegra level components) listed for over $1300... and this doesn't include a frame. Dura-Ace was $2100+ (Giant doesn't use Dura-Ace on the OCR, I was just curious)

That is $800 to move from next to the best, to the best... And other than knowing that this is the ranking, I have never had anyone describe what one gains by spending that much. In fact, I basically heard that unless you want to shave seconds off of a ride for racing that the higher end is not relevant to the typical rider.[/QUOTE

How much do you honestly shave off of a ride using a carbon frame. As you may notice this is all new to me. I don't plan on getting a new bike any time soon but would like to know as much as possible about everything.

wackydeirdre said:

What is the best and most inexpensive trainer (the kind I can put my road bike onto and the kids mountain bikes for winter exercise). I need to continue training through the winter if I want any hope of racing in the spring.

Armstrong likes to use a Tacx swing if that helps. These trainers are used all year by many Pro teams & get some real punishment.

wackydeirdre said:

How much do you honestly shave off of a ride using a carbon frame. As you may notice this is all new to me. I don't plan on getting a new bike any time soon but would like to know as much as possible about everything.

There are threads that discuss how much time is saved by weight etc. You would probably get good information by trying some searches. Since you mentioned racing in the spring, it may be something you would find interesting. I am pretty sure that you have seen some messages that say that it is best to work on the engine... And the best weight reduction component is to lay off the bacon... 😉 Your objective to get a trainer expresses that you are working on the engine.

From your exchange in this thread, I assume that your racing aspirations are for personal improvement and to exercise your competitive spirit... If you find yourself needing the few extra seconds, I am sure you will dig in and find out.

For competition, light weight is important, but so are stiffness and drag.

In honesty, your bike is not designed for racing, it is designed for a relatively comfortable and stable ride, though I suspect from your attitude you will make a good run of whatever races you join. How much faster you would be on a different bike is something I can't answer, having never raced, but you can get plenty of coments if you search here, and on other forums.

thanks, I'll definetly look into it!

Phil Stone said:

Armstrong likes to use a Tacx swing if that helps. These trainers are used all year by many Pro teams & get some real punishment.

wackydeirdre said:

How much do you honestly shave off of a ride using a carbon frame. As you may notice this is all new to me. I don't plan on getting a new bike any time soon but would like to know as much as possible about everything.

although not the original topic 🙂

the OCR was designed to be a little more upright - the headtube and stem are higher up. this is more comfortable than the TCR where the headtube/stem are lower.

carbon doesn't do much technically but having cracked two AL frames, I think cf might be more durable in its current usage. to optimize performance on a race bike, you want to optimize (my opinion):
1. position, including your saddle
2. wheels/tires (weight, stiffness, aero)
3. shoes/pedals/cranks (weight, stiffness)
4. stem/bar (weight, stiffness)
The frame material is a long way down the list, although frame makers might disagree.

for an immediate upgrade, have someone tighten up the spokes (if you have normal wheels) and put the lightest tires possible on the bike. or borrow someone else's "nice" wheels. you'll notice a different right away.

notice drivetrain is unimportant too - if it's working and reasonable in weight, it's fine.

for men, the OCR might make it difficult to get #1 right - the bars might be too high. for women, it might be optimal - shorter top tube for a given seat height.

currently my main bike is a TCR carbon and my backup is a TCR aluminum. I have one AL frame with a gouge that will crack shortly and a "new" AL frame that I'll be building up shortly for winter/training use. my build dictates a long top tube, short seat tube, and low bars. The TCR is perfect for that.

carpediemracing said:

although not the original topic 🙂

the OCR was designed to be a little more upright - the headtube and stem are higher up. this is more comfortable than the TCR where the headtube/stem are lower.

carbon doesn't do much technically but having cracked two AL frames, I think cf might be more durable in its current usage. to optimize performance on a race bike, you want to optimize (my opinion):
1. position, including your saddle
2. wheels/tires (weight, stiffness, aero)
3. shoes/pedals/cranks (weight, stiffness)
4. stem/bar (weight, stiffness)
The frame material is a long way down the list, although frame makers might disagree.

for an immediate upgrade, have someone tighten up the spokes (if you have normal wheels) and put the lightest tires possible on the bike. or borrow someone else's "nice" wheels. you'll notice a different right away.

notice drivetrain is unimportant too - if it's working and reasonable in weight, it's fine.

for men, the OCR might make it difficult to get #1 right - the bars might be too high. for women, it might be optimal - shorter top tube for a given seat height.

currently my main bike is a TCR carbon and my backup is a TCR aluminum. I have one AL frame with a gouge that will crack shortly and a "new" AL frame that I'll be building up shortly for winter/training use. my build dictates a long top tube, short seat tube, and low bars. The TCR is perfect for that.

I also have a very long torso but have short legs, arms and stubs for fingers. My bike is perfect for my torso and legs but I had the brakes moved in and downward when I had my bars re-taped so I could brake more comfortably. When I purchased the bike I was told it was a woman specific cycle. Don't know about that but it's comfy. The tires on the bike are the original ones. As far as that goes, it sounds like trainers are fairly grueling in tires. If I need new ones come spring I'll look into lighter ones. How hearty are they though? Am I going to be replacing tubes every ride or is it the same tire with different metals in the build?
You sort of shocked me when you said carbon was more durable than aluminum. I always thought it way the other way around.
In looking at your list I found it very interesting. I changed or adjusted nearly everything on it over time after purchasing the bike. Drivetrain? I lubricate all moing parts with a dry lube before each ride and clean the chain once in a while which keeps things running smoothly.Thanks for the advice. I'm still fairly ignorant compared to most people on the forum and all you can offer is welcome.

dgregory57 said:

My Sedona has treated me well. I replaced the tires with smooth road tires, but otherwise I just pedal and it just keeps going.

I will be switching, and using it as a commuter bike, and start riding a cheap drop bar bike (the Univega) in the spring for some increased efficiency to do an imperial century next year (I did a metric century on my Sedona last October, but haven't spent the time in the saddle I had hoped to this year).

Toward the end of next year I was expecting to upgrade, and I was thinking of an OCR 2 or 3, along with some similar bikes from other manufacturers still on the list. I do like the LBS I use, and they sell Giants (although I bought my current bike on the west coast)

I am leaning toward the OCR 3 instead of 2 because I am cheap.... How do you like the OCR 3? How often do you wonder if you should have bought the OCR 2?

Oh, I nearly forgot, I put a Terry saddle on also. The Giant saddle was so uncomfortable I found it near impossible to sit on. Giant also uses garbage tape on the bars which ripped after falling. I wasn't sad about it though, It was a great excuse to have the bars re-taped and the brakes adjusted. I now have cork tape on the bars which I really like. The Giant tape became soft and sticky when it was very hot in summer. I changed the color from gray to black. It looks awesome now and matches everything so nicely. My new saddle also is black as well as the middle part of the bars. The remaining parts of the bike are baby blue and silver.

OCR3 all the way.....
I got one recently as my first racer, nicest ride, good frameset for price. I suggest getting a different saddle (already done) and better tyres. The rest is all good except the pedals (I have lake cx200 shoes and no cleats and kept slipping out of the pedals on climbs) so I went clipless. All of this was very gradual, but if you have the money and want a really good value bike, go OCR 2

bobbyOCR said:

OCR3 all the way.....
I got one recently as my first racer, nicest ride, good frameset for price. I suggest getting a different saddle (already done) and better tyres. The rest is all good except the pedals (I have lake cx200 shoes and no cleats and kept slipping out of the pedals on climbs) so I went clipless. All of this was very gradual, but if you have the money and want a really good value bike, go OCR 2

Agreed! Saddle, I got a Terry. Pedals and cleats, I changed to Speed Play and got Specialized Body Geometry shoes. I'll work on changing tires in spring. Is the OCR2 really that much better than the OCR 3? Have you ridden both? The price difference between the two isn't really much from what I saw online. It's the price difference between the 2 and the 1 that is insane. Enjoy your bike, I really love mine! I brought it to the shop a couple of weeks ago after a crash and was experiencing withdrawal without it. I normally ride about 15miles a day. When it was in the shop for 3 days I was sooo... cranky! When It was ready and I told my kids I was finally able to pick it up they were practically shoving me out the door to go pick it up! The Giant tape is nasty compared to what was used when my bars were re- taped! Now I have nice cork tape instead of the sticky when exposed to sun original Giant put on the bike. The only difference is the Giant tape might have been slightly more cushioned.

wackydeirdre said:

I also have a very long torso but have short legs, arms and stubs for fingers. My bike is perfect for my torso and legs but I had the brakes moved in and downward when I had my bars re-taped so I could brake more comfortably. When I purchased the bike I was told it was a woman specific cycle. Don't know about that but it's comfy. The tires on the bike are the original ones. As far as that goes, it sounds like trainers are fairly grueling in tires. If I need new ones come spring I'll look into lighter ones. How hearty are they though? Am I going to be replacing tubes every ride or is it the same tire with different metals in the build?
You sort of shocked me when you said carbon was more durable than aluminum. I always thought it way the other way around.
In looking at your list I found it very interesting. I changed or adjusted nearly everything on it over time after purchasing the bike. Drivetrain? I lubricate all moing parts with a dry lube before each ride and clean the chain once in a while which keeps things running smoothly.Thanks for the advice. I'm still fairly ignorant compared to most people on the forum and all you can offer is welcome.

Tires - trainers make your tires silvery color but don't really wear them out. it's a great way to use up a nice but cut or otherwise compromised tire. I used the same tires for a very long Summer 2004 - Spring 2005, including the winter on the trainer, about 4 weeks just training in CA and FL, and only took them off during spring 2005 when I double flatted the tires on a training ride (pothole at 45 mph while drafting a truck) which put 1/2" cuts in both of them.

lighter tires typically have:
1. kevlar bead (hoop that holds tire on the rim) versus steel
2. higher thread per inch casing (tpi)
3. thinner sidewalls
4. thinner tread
5. less layers of material under tread
- kevlar beads allow the tire to fold up easily when removed from rim;
- higher tpi means a more supple casing, smoother than lower tpi casings at the same pressure. this means thinner sidewalls - if you have a 37 tpi, that means a one layer casing is 1/37" thick. if you have 128 tpi, the same single layer casing is 1/128" thick. thinner sidewalls increase the chance of a cut/blowout on the side.
- thinner tread - rubber is heavy, less is lighter. but usually the material is removed from the sides more than the "meat" of the tread so the tire won't wear out right away. I seem to cut or otherwise damage tires before I can wear them out, including the lightest Michelins, Specialized, and Vittorias.
- less layers of material - some tires tout their "puncture resistance" and have layers of kevlar or similar material under the tread. this adds weight. also it effectively stiffens the tire so that supple casing might not feel so supple. these tires help if you run over glass or other small/sharp objects. however, they don't help if you have under inflated tires, ride over gravel (sidewall gets cut), or hit a pothole at high speeds or high weight (i.e. you don't bunny hop the hole).

re: frame materials - aluminum is pretty easy to gouge. gouges are stress raisers and will initiate a crack. to make aluminum frames 1 kg (2.2 lbs) they've made the tubes super thin. dropping a chain onto the chainstay is a no-no - put protective tape or even metal (like on a carbon frame - Treks had them for a while) to protect it. My first Giant cracked on the chainstay, the second one will crack shortly on the top tube due to my cleat gouging it when I crashed it. I think the first one was simply defective, the second one I beat on much more and it was fine till I crashed it, so I bought another AL frame (still to be built). The carbon is good but i've only had it since March.

when comparing Giants within a family (OCR aluminum, TCR aluminum, etc), the frames are virtually identical. the forks differ a bit at the high end but if you repainted a TCR team, 1, 2, and 3 (are there that many?) I wouldn't be able to tell one from the other. from a performance point of view there is very little difference between similarly sized TCR AL and TCR carbon frames - I'd take one or the other, doesn't matter which. however, I think the carbon is better because I paid more than twice as much for it 🙂 No other good reason.

I haven't met a woman who doesn't like Terry's. Some high level pro women insist on more macho saddles but everyone willing to try one to keep ends up keeping it.

your drivetrain maintenance sounds good. if the chain appears dirty (or the cassette or the chainrings) then you should clean it. Make sure you get the cogs in the rear derailleur - they are soft plastic and hold an incredible amount of dirt, grease, gunk, etc. there was a time where I meticulously cleaned my drivetrain virtually daily (I saw an example set by the pros and tried to follow it). I also retaped my bars every couple weeks and kept getting new bottles. but now I clean my drivetrain once every few weeks (riding indoors most of the time helps avoid grit). I always wash it off after a ride in the rain, usually before I bring the bike in - I get off the bike at the end of the ride, degrease/clean/relube it, then go shower etc. and I retape my bars about once a year lol.

hope this helps
cdr