Differential

Quoted message said:

I'm building a quad recumbent. I'm a big guy so I need the four wheels. I want something I can have fun on.
I'm looking into differentials but haven't really seen any diagrams or good pictures. I see alot of trikes just drive
one side. If I can't get one that's within my budget then my idea is to attach a cassette to a jack shaft and put
sprokets on the ends then have chains go back to regular wheels in the back. I know this bike is going to be heavy
I'm not concerned right now with that. Any ideas about this would be appreciated.

D

Your setup is used on some heavy-duty trikes. It works, but it tends to
add steering input because the wheel on the inside of the turn always
gets the power.

If you look around, you may be able to find an old Schwinn Town &
Country adult trike. These had true two-wheel drive, with a real
differential. The rear end and drivetrain essentially bolted on to the
rear of a standard bike frame, so converting a recumbent trike into a
quad is somewhat straightforward. There's a bunch of details to
consider, but it's easier than building your own rear axle.

Jeff

<[email hidden]> wrote in
news:1125883224.c023e86e94d90c0abcb41fa87ab6e2b9@ultrafeed:

Quoted message said:

I'm building a quad recumbent. I'm a big guy so I need the four
wheels. I want something I can have fun on. I'm looking into
differentials but haven't really seen any diagrams or good pictures. I
see alot of trikes just drive one side. If I can't get one that's
within my budget then my idea is to attach a cassette to a jack shaft
and put sprokets on the ends then have chains go back to regular
wheels in the back. I know this bike is going to be heavy I'm not
concerned right now with that. Any ideas about this would be
appreciated.

D

Check out the forum on...

http://www.atomiczombie.com

There are some detailed diff. photos there in one of the threads. Quads and
trikes.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1125883224.c023e86e94d90c0abcb41fa87ab6e2b9@ultrafeed...

Quoted message said:

I'm building a quad recumbent. I'm a big guy so I need the four wheels. I
want something I can have fun on.
I'm looking into differentials but haven't really seen any diagrams or
good pictures. I see alot of trikes just drive
one side. If I can't get one that's within my budget then my idea is to
attach a cassette to a jack shaft and put
sprokets on the ends then have chains go back to regular wheels in the
back. I know this bike is going to be heavy
I'm not concerned right now with that. Any ideas about this would be
appreciated.

D

Well, Hells Bells, why don't you get a name that the rest of us can live
with. You are not someone with a name like "someone" - you are no one. Get
yourself off to the graveyard and die, why don't you?

All quad recumbents are totally ridiculous. They are around strictly for the
"Freds" in this world. Are you a Fred?

Get yourself a nice trike and be done with it. The only way a quad makes any
sense at all is if you mount a motor on it, at which point you no longer
have a bike. You then have a motor vehicle.

By the way, I HATE all motor vehicles and I hope the price of gas goes to
$20. a gallon. That is what it will take for all the idiots in this world to
abandon their g.d. motor vehicles once and for all.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

What I put on my post for a name is my buisness. If it upsets you so
much I've changed it now. If you don't like quads then fine. But don't
diss anybody else for asking a question trying to get information. If
you want to make political statements then fine but do it in the right
place. Be careful what you wish for. You enjoy going online and
blasting people for simple question because they don't fall inline
with your ideals. How do you think that computer your typing on got to
the store.? Horse and buggy? I think not. You want fuel cost to go to
$20 a gallon then prepare for the price everything that you use in
your home to go through the roof if that happens.

Take the chip off your shoulder and help people not try an belittle
them. We're all here to get by most of the time. Just chill.

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:05:52 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1125883224.c023e86e94d90c0abcb41fa87ab6e2b9@ultrafeed...

Quoted message said:

I'm building a quad recumbent. I'm a big guy so I need the four wheels. I
want something I can have fun on.
I'm looking into differentials but haven't really seen any diagrams or
good pictures. I see alot of trikes just drive
one side. If I can't get one that's within my budget then my idea is to
attach a cassette to a jack shaft and put
sprokets on the ends then have chains go back to regular wheels in the
back. I know this bike is going to be heavy
I'm not concerned right now with that. Any ideas about this would be
appreciated.

D

Well, Hells Bells, why don't you get a name that the rest of us can live
with. You are not someone with a name like "someone" - you are no one. Get
yourself off to the graveyard and die, why don't you?

All quad recumbents are totally ridiculous. They are around strictly for the
"Freds" in this world. Are you a Fred?

Get yourself a nice trike and be done with it. The only way a quad makes any
sense at all is if you mount a motor on it, at which point you no longer
have a bike. You then have a motor vehicle.

By the way, I HATE all motor vehicles and I hope the price of gas goes to
$20. a gallon. That is what it will take for all the idiots in this world to
abandon their g.d. motor vehicles once and for all.

"Derick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1126356715.506ea038906998cb9cc72c769a2766cd@ultrafeed...

Why the hell don't you bottom post like most others here instead of top
posting. Top posting is ever the sign of a moron. Are you a moron?

Quoted message said:

What I put on my post for a name is my buisness. If it upsets you so
much I've changed it now.

I don't understand some of the user names that others think clever or
humorous. A user name ought to identify you in some manner. "Someone" was
ridiculous. Why not "Nobody"?

If you don't like quads then fine. But don't

Quoted message said:

diss anybody else for asking a question trying to get information.

There are others on this newsgroup who will supply answers to specific
questions. Jon Meinecke and Tom Sherman come immediately to mind. I am here
to question your basic enterprise. I am only trying to save you from
yourself - and this is the thanks I get!

Quads make no sense at all unless you are planning to mount a motor on them.
Once you do that, you no longer have a bike, you have a motor vehicle.

If

Quoted message said:

you want to make political statements then fine but do it in the right
place.

Every post to a newsgroup is nothing if not an opportunity to say something
that might be of interest to the reader outside the narrow range of a topic.
To stay on topic to the exclusion of everything else marks you as a dull
man. Are you a dull man?

Be careful what you wish for. You enjoy going online and

Quoted message said:

blasting people for simple question because they don't fall inline
with your ideals. How do you think that computer your typing on got to
the store.? Horse and buggy? I think not. You want fuel cost to go to
$20 a gallon then prepare for the price everything that you use in
your home to go through the roof if that happens.

Hells Bells, I am not even sure gas at $20. a gallon would get the average
idiot out of his private motor vehicle. I think it might have to be $100. a
gallon.

Light rail is the solution to getting around a metro and heavy rail is the
solution to getting around the country. Our forebears had it right, but we
getting stupider and stupider with every passing generation.

Quoted message said:

Take the chip off your shoulder and help people not try an belittle
them. We're all here to get by most of the time. Just chill.

Too much chilling puts me to sleep.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

...
Quads make no sense at all unless you are planning to mount a motor on them.
Once you do that, you no longer have a bike, you have a motor vehicle....

The primary disadvantages of a quad compared to a trike are the extra
weight, cost and complexity of the frame. However, the quad does have
certain advantages.

A quad has only 2 wheel tracks when traveling in a straight line and
for practical purposes can be considered to have only 2 wheel tracks
while performing large radius turns. A trike [1] will have 3 wheel
tracks, of course. This may lead to seriously increased rolling
resistance for the trike in snow or on certain other loose surfaces.

The second disadvantage of 3 wheel tracks compared to 2 wheel tracks is
that it becomes much more difficult to avoid smaller potholes and
debris. Unsuspended trikes can be quite hard on their riders on poor
surfaces, and adding suspension pushes a trike towards the same
category as an unsuspended quad in terms of cost, weight and
complexity.

The third advantage of a quad is greater rollover stability. For a
multi-track human powered vehicle (HPV) to remain upright, the
projection to the ground of the combined rider/HPV center of mass must
remain within the area defined by the tire/ground surface contact
points. Assuming the track of the quad is the same as the 2-wheel end
of the trike and the wheelbases of both HPV's are equal, the quad will
of course have a rectangular area defined by the contact patches that
is twice the area of that of the trike. [2]

[1] Barring such oddities as the Turner T-4-2 Tandem
<http://www.turnerrecumbents.com/images1/tandem_lg.jpg>. Whether this 3
wheel HPV should be called a trike could be a matter of contention.
[2] This of course does not mean "twice" the rollover stability, since
other factors come into play, most importantly seat height and how
close the combined center of mass is to the 2-wheel axle of the trike.
[3]
[3] This is why there have been very few LWB tadpole trikes, e.g. MASA
Slingshot.

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

Hey guys -

Tom's tutorial:

Quoted message said:

For a multi-track human powered vehicle (HPV) to remain
upright, the projection to the ground of the combined
rider/HPV center of mass must remain within the area
defined by the tire/ground surface contact points.

For fairly static vehicles on tilted surfaces this is a
valid comment. For the more common tipover threat of
taking tight corners a bit too fast, I think it might
be better stated as:

For a multi-track human powered vehicle (HPV) to remain
upright during lateral acceleration (flat wide turns), the
coupling moment resulting from that lateral acceleration
with a moment arm effectively the same as the height of
its center of mass must not exceed the counteracting
moment of the vehicle's total weight (acting downward)
with a moment arm equaling the distance between the
center of mass and a line between the two outboard wheels.

While on a quad with equal front and rear track width,
this line is parallel to the vehicle's longitudinal
axis, for a trike it's an an angle to that axis, and the
farther the center of mass is from the two-wheeled 'axle'
the easier it will be to tip the trike.

For a trike and a quad with the same weight, height of
center of mass and track width, the trike will be more
likely to tip since the stabilizing moment arm will be
shorter for any practical design. For example, in a
tadpole with equal weight distribution, this distance
(and therefore the vehicle's maximum lateral g-force)
would be about two-thirds that for a quad. Under real
world conditions, an aggressive tadpole rider will
compensate for this condition by shifting his body
weight (fairly radically) into the turn.

Regards,
Wayne

"LoGo USA" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey guys -

Tom's tutorial:

Quoted message said:

For a multi-track human powered vehicle (HPV) to remain
upright, the projection to the ground of the combined
rider/HPV center of mass must remain within the area
defined by the tire/ground surface contact points.

For fairly static vehicles on tilted surfaces this is a
valid comment. For the more common tipover threat of
taking tight corners a bit too fast, I think it might
be better stated as:

For a multi-track human powered vehicle (HPV) to remain
upright during lateral acceleration (flat wide turns), the
coupling moment resulting from that lateral acceleration
with a moment arm effectively the same as the height of
its center of mass must not exceed the counteracting
moment of the vehicle's total weight (acting downward)
with a moment arm equaling the distance between the
center of mass and a line between the two outboard wheels.

While on a quad with equal front and rear track width,
this line is parallel to the vehicle's longitudinal
axis, for a trike it's an an angle to that axis, and the
farther the center of mass is from the two-wheeled 'axle'
the easier it will be to tip the trike.

For a trike and a quad with the same weight, height of
center of mass and track width, the trike will be more
likely to tip since the stabilizing moment arm will be
shorter for any practical design. For example, in a
tadpole with equal weight distribution, this distance
(and therefore the vehicle's maximum lateral g-force)
would be about two-thirds that for a quad. Under real
world conditions, an aggressive tadpole rider will
compensate for this condition by shifting his body
weight (fairly radically) into the turn.

Regards,
Wayne

Wayne LoGo, the Poet of ARBR, ought to stick to his poetry and leave the
physics to Tom Sherman. Who knows who is right - and who cares. It is all
gobbledygook and there is not one person in a hundred who will know what
either one of them is talking about. That is one thing that can never be
said of me.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

...
Quads make no sense at all unless you are planning to mount a motor on
them.
Once you do that, you no longer have a bike, you have a motor vehicle....

The primary disadvantages of a quad compared to a trike are the extra
weight, cost and complexity of the frame. However, the quad does have
certain advantages.

A quad has only 2 wheel tracks when traveling in a straight line and
for practical purposes can be considered to have only 2 wheel tracks
while performing large radius turns. A trike [1] will have 3 wheel
tracks, of course. This may lead to seriously increased rolling
resistance for the trike in snow or on certain other loose surfaces.

The second disadvantage of 3 wheel tracks compared to 2 wheel tracks is
that it becomes much more difficult to avoid smaller potholes and
debris. Unsuspended trikes can be quite hard on their riders on poor
surfaces, and adding suspension pushes a trike towards the same
category as an unsuspended quad in terms of cost, weight and
complexity.

[...]

I remember when I got my first trike how the 3 tracks were something I had
to get used to. 3 tracks are a major complication of all trikes and
something that I don't like much for the reasons you state above. Bicycles,
with their single track, are ideal of course.

I do not think a quad with 2 tracks is much of an improvement over a trike.
But the main thing against quads is their weight. I have only experienced a
couple of quads and they were not only heavy but also clunky. Trikes are a
better way to go, but absolutely nothing can beat a bicycle (a single
track).

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

...
Quads make no sense at all unless you are planning to mount a motor on
them.
Once you do that, you no longer have a bike, you have a motor vehicle....

The primary disadvantages of a quad compared to a trike are the extra
weight, cost and complexity of the frame. However, the quad does have
certain advantages.

A quad has only 2 wheel tracks when traveling in a straight line and
for practical purposes can be considered to have only 2 wheel tracks
while performing large radius turns. A trike [1] will have 3 wheel
tracks, of course. This may lead to seriously increased rolling
resistance for the trike in snow or on certain other loose surfaces.

The second disadvantage of 3 wheel tracks compared to 2 wheel tracks is
that it becomes much more difficult to avoid smaller potholes and
debris. Unsuspended trikes can be quite hard on their riders on poor
surfaces, and adding suspension pushes a trike towards the same
category as an unsuspended quad in terms of cost, weight and
complexity.

[...]

I remember when I got my first trike how the 3 tracks were something I had
to get used to. 3 tracks are a major complication of all trikes and
something that I don't like much for the reasons you state above. Bicycles,
with their single track, are ideal of course.

Another area where a quad may be superior is on unimproved roads. Many
of these will have rutted tracks from motor vehicles (e.g. farm
equipment, logging trucks, etc.). It is much easier to straddle the
ruts with a 2 track HPV than with a 3 track HPV.
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

LoGo USA said:

...
For a trike and a quad with the same weight, height of
center of mass and track width, the trike will be more
likely to tip since the stabilizing moment arm will be
shorter for any practical design. For example, in a
tadpole with equal weight distribution, this distance
(and therefore the vehicle's maximum lateral g-force)
would be about two-thirds that for a quad. Under real
world conditions, an aggressive tadpole rider will
compensate for this condition by shifting his body
weight (fairly radically) into the turn.

Do women not ride trikes, or do they only ride trikes in a
"non-aggressive" manner?

I believe weight shift on a trike is often overstated. The human spine
is not that flexible laterally, so the shift in the rider's center of
mass relative to the trike will be fairly small (much less that the
rider of an upright bicycle or motorcycle can achieve). However,
leaning into the turn has a great psychological effect in that it makes
the trike feel much less likely to roll over. Motor vehicle driver will
also often lean into turns, even though the movement of the combined
center of mass is negligible for even a small motor vehicle (e.g.
Formula V car).
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

Edward Dolan said:

...
Wayne LoGo, the Poet of ARBR, ought to stick to his poetry and leave the
physics to Tom Sherman. Who knows who is right - and who cares. It is all
gobbledygook and there is not one person in a hundred who will know what
either one of them is talking about. That is one thing that can never be
said of me.

Why are people so proud of being technically ignorant? Much of the
incorrect "conventional wisdom" in cycling would never have come about
if people had a working knowledge of basis statics, kinematics,
dynamics and material behavior.
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

Hey guys -

Tom teased (I hope!):

Quoted message said:

Do women not ride trikes, or do they only ride
trikes in a "non-aggressive" manner?

I'm sorry. Is that two separate but related questions,
or multiple choice? ;-) If Tom's point was to register
an objection to my use of the pronoun 'his' as an
efficient reference to a tadpole rider regardless of
his/her/its gender, please, everyone, consider me cued.
There will no need for future repetitions.

However, also be aware that my PC is not PC, and simply
refuses to type 'his/her/its' unless it's serving some
useful purpose. In much the same way, I'll leave it to
you guys (here as always meaning both males and females,
as well as those with indeterminate gender and/or some
confusion about gender identity) to figure out what 'PC'
means in whichever context.

Quoted message said:

... the shift in the rider's center of mass relative to
the trike will be fairly small...

A modern narrow-track tadpole's center of gravity is less
than ten inches inboard from the effective axis of rotation
for a tip-over. If that equates to something like 0.6 Gs,
then the rider swinging his upper torso and head even five
inches inboard and forward (i.e., closer to the two-wheeled
'axle'😉 will give HIM(!) another 0.1 G or so pad. Even a
trike rider who lacks the typically large and heavy human
brain is likely to have a very thick skull of about equal
weight. One well-known trikey of this type indicates (often
and repeatedly) that he doesn't go fast enough for tipping
over to be an issue anyway.

Of course, leaning on a tadpole does not serve the same
function as on a bike - where it's almost essential. But
it certainly isn't only for the "psychological effect".

Quoted message said:

Motor vehicle driver [sic] will also often
lean into turns...

Only one driver does that? My point being: nobody's prefect
[Please note: apparent error intentional!]. Now is there
any chance that we will ever be able to keep on-topic
threads on topic, rather than pointlessly nitpicking?

Regards,
Wayne

"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

...
Wayne LoGo, the Poet of ARBR, ought to stick to his poetry and leave the
physics to Tom Sherman. Who knows who is right - and who cares. It is all
gobbledygook and there is not one person in a hundred who will know what
either one of them is talking about. That is one thing that can never be
said of me.

Why are people so proud of being technically ignorant? Much of the
incorrect "conventional wisdom" in cycling would never have come about
if people had a working knowledge of basis statics, kinematics,
dynamics and material behavior.

Why are technical people so proud of never being understood except by other
nerds. An engineer or scientist who can write in such a way that the common
man can understand what is being said is worth his weight in gold. You come
closer to this standard than does Wayne LoGo, the Poet of ARBR, which is why
I recommended that he stay on poetry and leave the technical explanations to
you.

You need to work more on your explanations so as to be more easily
understood. No no one will bother with technical terms and engineering
jargon. Most young people are turned off of science and engineering because
the teaching of those subjects is so bad.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

...
You need to work more on your explanations so as to be more easily
understood....

recumbents good

ReBike slowest recumbent

NoCom fastest recumbent

Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer [TM] most fun recumbent

ed dolan understand?

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

Hey guys -

First lots of long words, then Tom asked:

Quoted message said:

[TROLL] understand?

Those big old words are much too hard.
They hurt a mind that's dull and scarred

Quoted message said:

From long, long nights of too much wine.

Just use short words and he'll be fine.

If one rides straight (to go to town?),
His weight will help to hold him down,
But if he takes a turn too fast
(Which some strange folks think is a blast),
He'll feel a force like he might tip,
And trikes are, well, more apt to flip
Than quads, whose wheels are out so far
That one won't fall out on the tar.

If some poor TROLL does not quite get
The drift of this, he must not fret.
There is no test he has to pass;
At worst he'll fall out on his ass.

Bye,
Wayne

"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

...
You need to work more on your explanations so as to be more easily
understood....

recumbents good

ReBike slowest recumbent

NoCom fastest recumbent

Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer [TM] most fun recumbent

ed dolan understand?

Here is the complete previous post:

Quoted message said:

Why are technical people so proud of never being understood except by
other

nerds. An engineer or scientist who can write in such a way that the common
man can understand what is being said is worth his weight in gold. You come
closer to this standard than does Wayne LoGo, the Poet of ARBR, which is why
I recommended that he stay on poetry and leave the technical explanations to
you.

Quoted message said:

You need to work more on your explanations so as to be more easily

understood. No no one will bother with technical terms and engineering
jargon. Most young people are turned off of science and engineering because
the teaching of those subjects is so bad.

Tom Sherman has never learned how to properly edit. He only quotes so as to
make himself appear not to be overly stupid, but he never succeeds in that
endeavor with me. I know him to be fairly stupid on most subjects.

He is an engineering nerd who does not have a clue about what makes human
beings go round. Remember the type in college? They walk around with their
rules and measures and generally looked like the jerks that they were. Tom
Sherman continues to play the fool. He has never grown up. What he thinks is
funny is merely pathetic. He is the eternal klutz who thinks he is cool and
yet always comes across as a simpleton to any one who has the least
sophistication. I would feel sorry for him if I wasn't so disgusted with
him.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"LoGo USA" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey guys -

First lots of long words, then Tom asked:

Quoted message said:

[TROLL] understand?

Those big old words are much too hard.
They hurt a mind that's dull and scarred

Quoted message said:

From long, long nights of too much wine.

Just use short words and he'll be fine.

Just lose the physics jargon.

But why aren't you posting on your favorite subject - [censored] and cum? We want
to hear what you think of masturbation and of relieving yourself via the
anus as you have set yourself up as the expert on these two subjects. Do not
spare us any details either as we need to know what your expert opinion is.
X-rated Jim and Slugger will especially want to know what you have to say as
they are just as fascinated by these subjects as you are.
[...]

Quoted message said:

If some poor TROLL does not quite get
The drift of this, he must not fret.
There is no test he has to pass;
At worst he'll fall out on his ass.

Good! The ass is always something we want to know about. But hey, Wayne
LameBrain, are you referencing the ass with respect to the excretory
function or possibly the sexual function. Again, we need to know what you
are thinking in greater detail since you have set yourself up as the expert
on these subjects.

Wayne LameBrain knows all about [censored] and cum. He writes most eloquently on
these two subjects. There is no doubt at all that he speaks from personal
experience in both these spheres. I would like to know which he prefers
himself. Does he prefer to relieve himself via the rectum or genitally.
Perhaps he could elaborate on these mysteries in his next message to the
newsgroup. After all, we do not want a rich resource in the area of [censored] and
cum like Wayne LameBrain to go to waste when we could all benefit from his
wisdom.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
[...]

Quoted message said:

BTW, blank shooter, I've only accused you of sublimation by
mastrubating at the keyboard, never of self-flaggelation itself.

[...]

Having said the magic word:

dsafjoreiutvoreinvoreroadtofdoisnodnvojovnjovjo
roaditcoaeitvnoidtjbvnodnboijcvnodnvrdvnodfgjv

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota