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Which GPS

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
8 September 2005
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2 October 2005
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  1. Hi,

    I am looking at getting both an HRM and a GPS for training.

    The HRM, simply to keep in zones, work intervals, but also to keep track
    of the general trend of my hr at rest.

    The GPS, mainly to find total length of my runs, especially when going on
    new routes (so I don't have to go back with my bycicle to find out). I
    might use it for running at given pace, but I find that I start to get a
    really good feeling for this.

    Anyway, I have been looking at the timex (the 5c391, the new body link)
    and the Garmin Forerunners. I have read a few reports that these units
    have reception problems as soon as one is in a covered area. What's your
    experience ?

    Also, are there independant small GPS that work better than these big
    combo ? I'm thinking I could work with a cheap hrm, and a separate gps,
    especially if I get better quality, and possibly cheaper overall price.

    Thanks.

    Yves.
    ----
    Yves Dorfsman
    http://www.cuug.ab.ca/dorfsmay
    http://www.SollerS.ca

  2. I have had a Garmin F301 since March. As a triathlete I use it for biking
    and running. My opinion is as follows:

    Instantaneous speed - poor. Average speed not too bad.
    Total distance - with good satellite reception generally within one percent
    except at the track. It does not like the bends - typical accuracy 6% over
    estimate, runs wide on the bends. Speed and distance functions useless for
    track workouts.
    Static position - generally within 20 meters
    Altitude - poor.
    Special features such as AutoLearn (LT determination) - useless in my case
    15 to 20 beats out.
    HRM poor - I have always experienced a few drop outs and spikes per work out
    but recently the performance has deteriorated to the point of being useless.
    If I cannot get any improvement in the next couple of workouts its going
    back to the manufacturers.

    In summary. Concept - brilliant. Implementation poor.

    Graham.

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:ndQTe.143090$Hk.114669@pd7tw1no...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi,

    I am looking at getting both an HRM and a GPS for training.

    The HRM, simply to keep in zones, work intervals, but also to keep track
    of the general trend of my hr at rest.

    The GPS, mainly to find total length of my runs, especially when going on
    new routes (so I don't have to go back with my bycicle to find out). I
    might use it for running at given pace, but I find that I start to get a
    really good feeling for this.

    Anyway, I have been looking at the timex (the 5c391, the new body link)
    and the Garmin Forerunners. I have read a few reports that these units
    have reception problems as soon as one is in a covered area. What's your
    experience ?

    Also, are there independant small GPS that work better than these big
    combo ? I'm thinking I could work with a cheap hrm, and a separate gps,
    especially if I get better quality, and possibly cheaper overall price.

    Thanks.

    Yves.
    ----
    Yves Dorfsman
    http://www.cuug.ab.ca/dorfsmay
    http://www.SollerS.ca

  3. GPS will have the reception problem with such a small antennae,

    You might also check out Suunto products.

    Polar also has a unit that uses an accelerometer. There are problems with
    that technology as well.

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:ndQTe.143090$Hk.114669@pd7tw1no...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi,

    I am looking at getting both an HRM and a GPS for training.

    The HRM, simply to keep in zones, work intervals, but also to keep track
    of the general trend of my hr at rest.

    The GPS, mainly to find total length of my runs, especially when going on
    new routes (so I don't have to go back with my bycicle to find out). I
    might use it for running at given pace, but I find that I start to get a
    really good feeling for this.

    Anyway, I have been looking at the timex (the 5c391, the new body link)
    and the Garmin Forerunners. I have read a few reports that these units
    have reception problems as soon as one is in a covered area. What's your
    experience ?

    Also, are there independant small GPS that work better than these big
    combo ? I'm thinking I could work with a cheap hrm, and a separate gps,
    especially if I get better quality, and possibly cheaper overall price.

    Thanks.

    Yves.
    ----
    Yves Dorfsman
    http://www.cuug.ab.ca/dorfsmay
    http://www.SollerS.ca

  4. The only thing a GPS can tell a jogger, is where the closest mouth
    breather is to the unit.

  5. I use the Timex Bodylink system. Here in Florida, the mountainous
    terrain has not posed a problem for reception. The main benefit I get
    out of the system is to help me keep track of my pace, as I'm training
    for the the NYC marathon. Hopefully it will work there. I'm also a
    geek, so I enjoy downloading the numbers and comparing pace and HR data
    across different runs. I do regret not purchasing the Garmin, since
    from what I read, Garmin also provides the longitude and latitude data
    that allows you to chart your runs against a map.

  6. "Graham Steer" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    HRM poor - I have always experienced a few drop outs and spikes per work
    out
    but recently the performance has deteriorated to the point of being
    useless.
    If I cannot get any improvement in the next couple of workouts its going
    back to the manufacturers.

    In summary. Concept - brilliant. Implementation poor.

    I, too am quite annoyed at the drop-outs and funny readings I get from my
    HRM.

    Have you used electrode cream? My brother (a mtn bike racer) swears by it.
    I used it a couple of times when visiting him in the dry Aspen, CO air, and
    I got perfect performance.

    The brand he uses is called Buh Bump, and you can google to find a supplier.

    I'm going to order some today, after a frustrating LT run with good readings
    only about 50% of the time. (NFI)

    -- Dan

  7. The Magnetic Positioning System in Pigeons

    The Magnetic Positioning System in Pigeons
    A recent experiment has provided important support for the theory that
    homing pigeons make use of the Earth's magnetic field to determine their
    direction.
    Since ancient times human beings have used pigeons to carry their
    messages to recipients at distant locations. There is evidence, for
    example, that pigeons were used for the purpose of transmitting messages
    in Baghdad in 1150.

    Homing pigeons are capable of traveling very long distances. The
    distance record for a pigeon that succeeded in returning home again is
    1689 miles (approximately 2719 km).

    Up until the present day the question of how the pigeons, known by the
    scientific name Columba livia, manage to locate their homes was a
    mystery. Among the possible explanations a powerful sense of smell and
    the ability to perceive magnetic fields predominated. Following decades
    of research, scientists have revealed that pigeons genuinely do possess
    the ability to perceive magnetic fields.

    Cordula Mora, a biologist at the University of North Carolina at Chapel
    Hill, and her co-workers placed the pigeons in a wooden tunnel. When the
    magnetic coils on the exterior of the tunnel were switched on, a
    magnetic field that attained its highest level in the center of the
    tunnel was formed. Mora trained four pigeons to fly to one side of the
    tunnel if the magnetic field inside the tunnel was undisturbed, and to
    the other side if the coils were on. The pigeons' ability to detect the
    magnetic field was then measured. The pigeons made the correct choice in
    55% to 65% of 24 experiments carried out to that end.

    Researchers had previously discovered magnetite inside the homing
    pigeons' beaks. In order to test whether or not this region was the
    center of the bird's magnetic sense, Mora attached small magnets that
    would weaken their ability to detect magnetic fields to each bird's
    beak. As a result, a significant decrease in magnetic field detection
    occurred. The success rate fell to below 50%. However, the birds adapted
    to the distortion caused by the magnets, and it was observed that the
    success rate rose again parallel to this.
    An experimental homing pigeon with a magnet attached to its beak.
    However, when non-magnetic materials (made of brass, for example) were
    attached to their beaks, magnetic field detection was unaffected. In the
    same way, the surgical severing of the olfactory nerves in the birds'
    beak region also failed to weaken this ability.
    These findings reinforced the theory that pigeons navigate by the
    magnetic field surrounding the Earth.

    It was known that migrating birds made use of other visual clues, such
    as the sun, moon, stars and memorized landmarks. Mora now added the
    Earth's magnetic field to these, stating that it contributes to accurate
    navigation, and said:

    "Every point on Earth has a unique combination of magnetic intensity and
    magnetic inclination. This would help the pigeon know where it was in
    relation to its goal."

    Other researchers also interpret this finding as a major step forward in
    understanding pigeons' sensory systems.
    On the other hand, this magnetic positioning system illuminated in the
    latest study is also compatible with a system based on advanced
    technology.

    The Global Positioning System
    GPS, a sensitive positioning system, is based on advanced technology and
    is a product of intelligent design.
    An examination of the pigeon's magnetic positioning system immediately
    puts one in mind of the Global Positioning System (GPS). GPS is a
    satellite monitoring system used in determining the location of any
    object. In this system a team of at least 24 satellites is employed. The
    use of GPS, designed and controlled by the US Defense Department, is
    open to everybody and free of charge. The system consists of three
    elements: space, the control and the user. The space element refers to
    the GPS satellites. The control element refers to ground stations in
    various regions of the world. These stations monitor the satellites'
    course, synchronize sensitive timepieces in the satellites, and load
    onto the satellites the information they will transmit. The user element
    consists of the GPS receiver. A GPS receiver decodes the signals coming
    from several satellites and locates the position. This location is
    performed using a technique known as trilateration.

    Trilateration is a method of determining objects' relative position
    using geometry. This calculation, performed with the assistance of the
    geometry of circles, requires at least three reference points. The logic
    behind these calculations can easily be grasped from the diagram below:
      In the diagram to the left, imagine that you are traveling
    somewhere between points P1, P2 and P3 and that you wish to know your
    exact location. (Ignore the different colored circles at this stage.
    Imagine you can only see points P1, P2 and P3.) If you tell a caller "I
    am between points P1, P2 and P3" you have not stated your exact
    location. However, if you know your distance from these three points it
    will be possible for you to give your exact position. The following
    stages will be sufficient for this: the calculation of r1 reduces your
    possible location to the area of the pink circle. Then, the measurement
    of r2 reduces your possible position to one of two points, A and B.
    Finally, measurement of r3 firmly establishes that you are at point B.
    Your coordinates are thus established. The points referred to as P1, P2
    and P3 in this description represent the satellites in the GPS system.

    Striking Similarities
    Striking similarities in terms of their functioning can be seen between
    the GPS system and homing pigeons' magnetic positioning system. Both
    contain an environment capable of transmitting data about a position on
    the Earth's surface. While data from satellites are transmitted through
    the atmosphere in GPS, it is thought that it is the Earth's magnetic
    field that performs this function in the pigeon system. Both contain
    systems to detect these data (signals) coming from outside; in other
    words panels in satellites and cells containing magnetite in the
    pigeon's beak. Systems that interpret these data also exist in both. In
    GPS, geometrical measurements are performed by computers and other
    digital equipment (as in the trilateration technique outlined above),
    whereas in pigeons the brain assumes the responsibility for interpreting
    the signals forwarded to it by means of sense.
    In addition, many airline companies are today installing GPS in their
    planes, integrating it with their flight control systems. The fact that
    the pigeon cells containing magnetite have been positioned in its beak,
    in the same way that an aircraft's electronic flight systems are located
    in its nose, is a most significant similarity.
    There is absolutely no doubt that the GPS system and all its satellites
    and ground control systems have been specially designed. The system is
    made up of components planned to serve a specific purpose and
    constituting a whole. The many electronic devices in the satellite and
    control systems work in harmony together in the light of this objective.
    The magnetic positioning system in homing pigeons also bears such
    evident signs of design. The cells containing magnetite that permit
    interaction with the Earth's magnetic field, the nerves that transmit
    the data detected by these cells, and the brain that interprets all
    these, work in perfect harmony together. Thanks to this, the bird is
    able to determine the exact location of its home thousands of kilometers
    away with a totally accurate calculation. This is literally a perfect
    ability, because in terms of the thousands of kilometers traveled by the
    pigeon, its home is no more than a tiny speck.
    Yet how could the system that permits such a superior location
    determining ability have come into being? Could coincidences, devoid of
    any consciousness, have given rise to the pigeon with its perfect
    design, endowed it with perfect physiological systems, installed the
    magnetite containing cells in its beak and thus formed a flawless
    sensory system? Of course, not.
    All the features in the GPS are evidence leaving no doubt that it was
    designed by engineers. In a similar way, a system that exhibits the same
    design features must also have been designed, in other words created.
    There is no doubt that Almighty God, the Lord of the worlds, is the
    Creator Who brought the pigeon into being with His infinite might and
    knowledge and gave it the systems enabling it to locate a point
    thousands of kilometers away with unerring accuracy. God reveals the
    following in the Qur'an:
    He to Whom the kingdom of the heavens and the earth belongs. He does not
    have a son and He has no partner in the Kingdom. He created everything
    and determined it most exactly. (Qur'an, 25:2)
    ----------------------------------------------
    References:
    Kathleen Wong, "A Magnetic Attraction to Home,"
    http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2004/1124/3 James
    Owen, "Magnetic Beaks Help Birds Navigate, Study Says,"
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/1124_041124_magnetic_birdshtml
    ----------------------------------------------

  8. I have the Forerunner 201. It is useful as a mean to keep track of the
    total distance I ran (504 miles so far this year). It is not too
    useful for monitoring my actual speed during the run. Its measurements
    are only good enough as a rough guide. I use the lap pace with each
    lap set as 1/4 mile instead of the realtime pace, the realtime pace is
    pretty much useless.

    I use a Timex HRM to help me pace my runs. I find that very useful. I
    can run without any discomfort if I keep my HR in the 150s. This is
    useful for me because heat affects me greatly. My idea running
    temperature is in the low 40s.

    I have considered the Forerunner 301 but it is still a little too
    pricey for me. Also, I read the Garmin is starting to use new GPS
    chips in their designs. I guess I am waiting for Forerunner 401. I'll
    probably get it if it comes with an audio player that supports WMA.
    This way I can reduce the number of items I wear during my runs.

  9. I watched the movie "The Core" last week and it had birds crashing into
    windows as the result of the earth's magnetic field being damaged. I
    think the director had the birds confused with bats but at least now I
    see some ligitimacy for the notion that magnetic fields influence a
    bird's sense of direction. Wonder what happens when birds fly near
    high voltage lines as they induce a locally strong magnetic field?

  10. BillX said:

    Wonder what happens when birds fly near
    high voltage lines as they induce a locally strong magnetic field?

    They evaporate, you moron.
    TBR

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
    more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
    the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
    White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
    "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
    but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

  11. "I watched the movie "The Core" last week
    And it had birds crashing into windows
    As the result of the earth's magnetic field
    Being damaged.

    I think the director had the birds confused
    With bats, but at least now I see
    Some ligitimacy

    For the notion that magnetic fields
    Influence a bird's sense of direction.

    Wonder what happens
    When birds fly near high voltage lines,

    As such magnetic fields
    Induce a locally strong magnetic field?"
    ~ BillX

    "Heck, yeah ~ !
    Fried brain ~ dirtied byrd."
    ~ Folly

  12. ~ * Nice Royal Byrd
    Society ~ !

    Remember a very nice byrd
    Today ~ FTD
    A nice pretty bouquet ~ !

    !STOP Byrd Suicide!

    Morning Wood Supports
    Le Parc Too ...

    The Only Natural Preserve
    That includes Reptiles & Amphibians Too.

    http://www.rspb.org.uk/england/north/index.asp

    ~ * ~

  13. ~ * Le
    Parc Place * ~

    http://www.parcplace.org/about.html

  14. Le PARC is a unique conservation
    Network because ~

    * PARC includes all reptiles and amphibians ~ !

    * PARC is habitat focused

    * PARC includes all individuals, organizations,
    and agencies that have an interest
    in reptile and amphibian conservation

    * PARC focuses on endangered and threatened species
    and keeping common native species common

  15. Chick joy as rare harriers
    Raise fantastic five ~ !

    A round-the-clock guard
    on the North Pennines nest of a pair
    of England's rarest birds of prey has resulted
    in a baby boom this summer.

  16. Twittering One said:

    Embattled Brown Resigns As FEMA Chief

    Not sure why.

    tkb

  17. Hi all. I'm just curious about whether you guys are buying your HRMs
    and GPS units online or at your local shop.

    Cheers,

    Brian

  18. Quoted message said:

    Hi all. I'm just curious about whether you guys are buying your HRMs
    and GPS units online or at your local shop.

    Cheers,

    Brian


    I bought hrm at
    http://www.sarkproducts.com/
    so I could trade in old model.

    GPS at http://www.tigergps.com/
    because of fair shipping prices to Alaska (big issue for me, maybe not
    for you).

    Both have good service in my limited experience.
    Wal-Mart and other big-box stores do carry some name-brand gps's
    (hunting or outdoor department), but they (Wal-Mart) didn't have the
    ones I wanted in stock and didn't get them in stock in reasonable time,
    so I went elsewhere.

    Dot

    --
    "It's not football, but it is trail running." - Julie Udchachon, Women's
    US 50k trail champion 2005

  19. Dan Stumpus said:

    "Graham Steer" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Have you used electrode cream? My brother (a mtn bike racer) swears by it.
    I used it a couple of times when visiting him in the dry Aspen, CO air, and
    I got perfect performance.

    As a mountain bike racer, road trainer, and now runner, I can relate to
    the problem. Saliva works just as well as electrode cream, however, in
    my extensive experience. I have the goop but I never use it; I just
    smear spit on the transmitter and go. Once you work up a sweat failed
    data has nothing to do with this issue. When my HRM doesn't work (on
    the bike) it's for two reasons: interference or wind. When running, the
    only problem is interference. The gel cannot cure either problem, and
    I've tried everything, believe me, including literally strapping my
    watch around the transmitter, to no avail. If spit grosses you out,
    then the cream is perfect.

  20. Quoted message said:

    Hi all. I'm just curious about whether you guys are buying your HRMs
    and GPS units online or at your local shop.

    Cheers,

    Brian

    Weakest troll post ever

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