I hit a kid

kerch said:

I hit a kid on a bike on Monday. I was approaching a one way going to my
right. I slowed at the crosswalk and there were pedestrians approaching on
my right well back from the corner. I checked to my left and the walk light
said stop. I still had a red light. But no one was aproaching the crosswalk.
I crept through the crosswalk and about 2/3 way through while I was looking
left for oncoming traffic the kid came out of nowhere and I bumped him with
my right side bumper. I didn't really knock him hard or off the bike but he
went down on one hand. His thumb nail was bent back and was bleeding a
little. His front wheel and front brakes were bent. No damage to my car -
1968 fairlane. Some witnesses said I did not come to a complete stop. He did
not cry but was a little shook up as was I. He was riding a Supercycle or
something. Some kind of cheap 1 year old bike. A fireman was there
immediately and there were other witnesses. Police and ambulance were called
and all info was noted. No charges laid. I at first offered to fix anything
on the bike but later I decided for $150.00 I could get him a new bike. I
offered this to his mother and she seemed okay. Now it seems they are
putting in a claim with my insurance. Now I feel bad and feel it was
certainly partly my fault but this kid was riding the wrong way on the
sidewalk riding through a crosswalk, without a helmet(not really relevant,
he did not come near to hitting his head, but it is the law.). I think he is
just as much at fault. Does he bear any responsibility

It probably depends partly on your provincial/state highway code or
municipal by-laws but I'd say unless you did not come to a complete
stop before edging forwad to make a right hadn turn then he bears
complete and total responsibility. A bicycle in my jurisdiction is a
vehicle and it is not intended to be ridden on the sidewalk and at
least in some jurisditions it is illegal to ride across a crosswalk.

It is just plain dangerous to ride on a sidewalk. One of the main
problems, at least in my opinion, is that drivers (and myself when
riding a bike) do not monitor sidewalks for cyclists. We look for
pedestrians travelling about 4-6km/hr not a sidewalk cowboy on a bike
riding quite possibly at 20-25km/hr.
John Kane
Kingston

I saw a minor run-in between a cyclist and an automobilist one morning
when I was riding to work. The rider rode into the crosswalk as the
driver was starting a righthand on red turn. I don't remember now if
the rider was actually hurt or just shaken but I do remember handing
the driver my card in case he needed a witness. IIRC, I didn't have my
usual business card so I handed him my Citizens for Safe Cycling
Director's business card. He was totally in the right.

"kerch" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

I hit a kid on a bike on Monday. I was approaching a one way going to my
right. I slowed at the crosswalk and there were pedestrians approaching on
my right well back from the corner. I checked to my left and the walk light
said stop. I still had a red light. But no one was aproaching the
crosswalk. I crept through the crosswalk and about 2/3 way through while I
was looking left for oncoming traffic the kid came out of nowhere and I
bumped him with my right side bumper. I didn't really knock him hard or off
the bike but he went down on one hand. His thumb nail was bent back and was
bleeding a little. His front wheel and front brakes were bent. No damage to
my car - 1968 fairlane. Some witnesses said I did not come to a complete
stop. He did not cry but was a little shook up as was I. He was riding a
Supercycle or something. Some kind of cheap 1 year old bike. A fireman was
there immediately and there were other witnesses. Police and ambulance were
called and all info was noted. No charges laid. I at first offered to fix
anything on the bike but later I decided for $150.00 I could get him a new
bike. I offered this to his mother and she seemed okay. Now it seems they
are putting in a claim with my insurance. Now I feel bad and feel it was
certainly partly my fault but this kid was riding the wrong way on the
sidewalk riding through a crosswalk, without a helmet(not really relevant,
he did not come near to hitting his head, but it is the law.). I think he
is just as much at fault. Does he bear any responsibility

You admitted fault when you offered to pay for repairs/buy the kid a bike.
Best thing to do would have been to wait until the police assigned fault,
then offer to buy the kid a bike if you were at fault. What does the law in
your area say about cycling on sidewalks? Even if it's legal to cycle on
sidewalks, he seems to have crossed against a red pedestrian light.
--
mark

"kerch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I hit a kid on a bike on Monday. I was approaching a one way going to my
right. I slowed at the crosswalk and there were pedestrians approaching on
my right well back from the corner. I checked to my left and the walk light
said stop. I still had a red light. But no one was aproaching the
crosswalk. I crept through the crosswalk and about 2/3 way through while I
was looking left for oncoming traffic the kid came out of nowhere and I
bumped him with my right side bumper. I didn't really knock him hard or off
the bike but he went down on one hand. His thumb nail was bent back and was
bleeding a little. His front wheel and front brakes were bent. No damage to
my car - 1968 fairlane. Some witnesses said I did not come to a complete
stop. He did not cry but was a little shook up as was I. He was riding a
Supercycle or something. Some kind of cheap 1 year old bike. A fireman was
there immediately and there were other witnesses. Police and ambulance were
called and all info was noted. No charges laid. I at first offered to fix
anything on the bike but later I decided for $150.00 I could get him a new
bike. I offered this to his mother and she seemed okay. Now it seems they
are putting in a claim with my insurance. Now I feel bad and feel it was
certainly partly my fault but this kid was riding the wrong way on the
sidewalk riding through a crosswalk, without a helmet(not really relevant,
he did not come near to hitting his head, but it is the law.). I think he
is just as much at fault. Does he bear any responsibility

You're lucky, and the kid is luckier! My next door neighbor informed us last
night that her nephew was hit and killed while riding his bike.

(Make's my broken pelvis seem like a little boo-boo now.)

Tue, 6 Sep 2005 13:50:48 -0700, <[email hidden]>,
"kerch" <[email hidden]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

the kid came out of nowhere

How's that possible without some kind of inter-dimensional hanky
panky?

Quoted message said:

Now it seems they are putting in a claim with my insurance.

As they well should since it's still too early to know the full extent
of the kid's injuries.

Quoted message said:

Now I feel bad and feel it was certainly partly my fault

You chose to buckle into the scud, so there you are. Suck it up.
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

Tue, 6 Sep 2005 13:50:48 -0700, <[email hidden]>,
"kerch" <[email hidden]> wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

the kid came out of nowhere

How's that possible without some kind of inter-dimensional hanky
panky?

Quoted message said:

Now it seems they are putting in a claim with my insurance.

As they well should since it's still too early to know the full extent
of the kid's injuries.

Quoted message said:

Now I feel bad and feel it was certainly partly my fault

You chose to buckle into the scud, so there you are. Suck it up.

That's Zoot's way of saying "hang in there". He'd blame a PARKED car if a
kid on skates crashed into it (long lost thread, IIRC)...

Talk to your insurance company. Emphasize the sidewalk riding, wrong way
(?), no helmet, etc. Then let them handle it and thank your lucky stars it
wasn't worse. Worst thing that'll happen is your rates will go up; could
have been a LOT more serious than that...

kerch said:

I hit a kid on a bike on Monday. I was approaching a one way going to my
right. I slowed at the crosswalk and there were pedestrians approaching on
my right well back from the corner. I checked to my left and the walk light
said stop. I still had a red light. But no one was aproaching the crosswalk.
I crept through the crosswalk and about 2/3 way through while I was looking
left for oncoming traffic the kid came out of nowhere and I bumped him with
my right side bumper. I didn't really knock him hard or off the bike but he
went down on one hand. His thumb nail was bent back and was bleeding a
little. His front wheel and front brakes were bent. No damage to my car -
1968 fairlane. Some witnesses said I did not come to a complete stop. He did
not cry but was a little shook up as was I. He was riding a Supercycle or
something. Some kind of cheap 1 year old bike. A fireman was there
immediately and there were other witnesses. Police and ambulance were called
and all info was noted. No charges laid. I at first offered to fix anything
on the bike but later I decided for $150.00 I could get him a new bike. I
offered this to his mother and she seemed okay. Now it seems they are
putting in a claim with my insurance. Now I feel bad and feel it was
certainly partly my fault but this kid was riding the wrong way on the
sidewalk riding through a crosswalk, without a helmet(not really relevant,
he did not come near to hitting his head, but it is the law.). I think he is
just as much at fault. Does he bear any responsibility

*Generally* speaking if the kid were an adult he would share
responsibility but he wasn't an adult, he was a kid (age?) so he's not
likely to be held to an adult standard but questions like this are best
left to legal professionals in your particular jurisdiction. You have
insurance and your insurance company has lawyers. Let them worry about
it. That's why you pay premiums.
Just as an aside- sidewalk riding and wrong way riding are usually bad
ideas but unless that sidewalk and crosswalk were marked as one way he
couldn't very well have been "riding the wrong way on the sidewalk
riding through a crosswalk", could he? Unexpected? Yes. Wrong way? No.
Best of luck to both of you.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

6 Sep 2005 16:43:45 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,

Bob said:

You have
insurance and your insurance company has lawyers. Let them worry about
it. That's why you pay premiums.

His insurance company and the kid's insurance company are the same,
Insurance Corporation of British Columbia. That way the insurance
company can't lose.

Believe it or not, if the kid had creamed a pedestrian in the x-walk
he'd have exactly the same coverage as a driver as long as somebody in
his household has a valid drivers license.
--
zk

"Bob" wrote: (clip) he wasn't an adult, he was a kid (age?) so he's not
likely to be held to an adult standard but questions like this are best left
to legal professionals (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Of course. We're not giving legal advice, or iossuing rulings. We're
talking to each other. So, as long as we're just talking--it's true that a
minor is not held to the same legal standards as an adult. However, this
does not say that the responsibility automatically moves to the other party
in an accident. It could very well be the responsibility of the parents for
permitting the minor to behave in an unsafe manner. It would be illogical
and unjust to hold an adult responsible, just because the other party is a
minor.

Bill Sornson said:

That's Zoot's way of saying "hang in there". He'd blame a PARKED car if a

kid on skates crashed into it (long lost thread, IIRC)...

Zoot Katz would never go off on this newsgroup if the subject were motor
vehicles and their operators, now would he?

--
Sock Puppet

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kerch said:

I hit a kid on a bike on Monday. I was approaching a one way going to my
right. I slowed at the crosswalk and there were pedestrians approaching on

my right well back from the corner. I checked to my left and the walk
light
said stop. I still had a red light. But no one was aproaching the
crosswalk.
I crept through the crosswalk and about 2/3 way through while I was
looking
left for oncoming traffic the kid came out of nowhere and I bumped him
with
my right side bumper. I didn't really knock him hard or off the bike but
he
went down on one hand. His thumb nail was bent back and was bleeding a
little. His front wheel and front brakes were bent. No damage to my car -
1968 fairlane. Some witnesses said I did not come to a complete stop. He
did
not cry but was a little shook up as was I. He was riding a Supercycle or
something. Some kind of cheap 1 year old bike. A fireman was there
immediately and there were other witnesses. Police and ambulance were
called
and all info was noted. No charges laid. I at first offered to fix
anything
on the bike but later I decided for $150.00 I could get him a new bike. I
offered this to his mother and she seemed okay. Now it seems they are
putting in a claim with my insurance. Now I feel bad and feel it was
certainly partly my fault but this kid was riding the wrong way on the
sidewalk riding through a crosswalk, without a helmet(not really relevant,

he did not come near to hitting his head, but it is the law.). I think he
is
just as much at fault. Does he bear any responsibility

The parent(s) of the child are at fault for letting him ride unsupervised
when he does not yet have the training and/or ability to ride as a vehicular
cyclist.

--
Sock Puppet

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Here's some free legal advice. Don't post anything more about this to
Usenet. Hire an attorney.

--

alan

Anyone who believes in a liberal media has never read the "Daily Oklahoman."

"kerch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I hit a kid on a bike on Monday.

kerch said:

I hit a kid on a bike on Monday. I was approaching a one way going to my
right. I slowed at the crosswalk and there were pedestrians approaching on
my right well back from the corner. I checked to my left and the walk light
said stop. I still had a red light. But no one was aproaching the crosswalk.
I crept through the crosswalk and about 2/3 way through while I was looking
left for oncoming traffic the kid came out of nowhere and I bumped him with
my right side bumper. I didn't really knock him hard or off the bike but he
went down on one hand. His thumb nail was bent back and was bleeding a
little. His front wheel and front brakes were bent. No damage to my car -
1968 fairlane. Some witnesses said I did not come to a complete stop. He did
not cry but was a little shook up as was I. He was riding a Supercycle or
something. Some kind of cheap 1 year old bike. A fireman was there
immediately and there were other witnesses. Police and ambulance were called
and all info was noted. No charges laid. I at first offered to fix anything
on the bike but later I decided for $150.00 I could get him a new bike. I
offered this to his mother and she seemed okay. Now it seems they are
putting in a claim with my insurance. Now I feel bad and feel it was
certainly partly my fault but this kid was riding the wrong way on the
sidewalk riding through a crosswalk, without a helmet(not really relevant,
he did not come near to hitting his head, but it is the law.). I think he is
just as much at fault. Does he bear any responsibility

In this claims happy, law suit happy, society we live in it is best in
instances like this to do what most insurance companies advise. That is
render necessary immediate aid (which you did) and do not discuss fault
(which you did not do). By offering to fix everything and/or buy a new bike
you essentially said that you felt that you were at fault.
I don't know what the laws are where you live but chances are that legally
the kid was not properly crossing the cross walk.
I would now remain in close contact with your insurance company to see which
way they are leaning as far as making a settlement. I would also let them
know that you do not think that a settlement is appropriate and would seek
separate legal advise if your insurance company seems to want to make any
more than a token settlement. In view of the fact that the parent(s) have
made a insurance claim against you I would also let the mother know that you
are withdrawing your previous offer.
Chuck

kerch wrote:

My advice to you mr. kerch is to not get too
excited about claims against your insurance.
Just be thankful you didn't run over the kid and
kill him. Put your energy into being more careful.

Robert

Leo Lichtman said:

"Bob" wrote: (clip) he wasn't an adult, he was a kid (age?) so he's not
likely to be held to an adult standard but questions like this are best left
to legal professionals (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Of course. We're not giving legal advice, or iossuing rulings. We're
talking to each other. So, as long as we're just talking--it's true that a
minor is not held to the same legal standards as an adult. However, this
does not say that the responsibility automatically moves to the other party
in an accident. It could very well be the responsibility of the parents for
permitting the minor to behave in an unsafe manner. It would be illogical
and unjust to hold an adult responsible, just because the other party is a
minor.

Your point that we're just talking among ourselves is taken. That said,
if you can convince a jury that lack of adequate parental supervision
is to blame when a child riding his bicycle on a sidewalk and crossing
at a controlled intersection is hit by a car turning right on red then
Leo, you're my first choice if I ever need a defense lawyer whether you
have a law degree or not. :-)

Regards,
Bob Hunt

kerch wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

I think he is
just as much at fault. Does he bear any responsibility

This is a little kid you're talking about right?

Since kids are generally allowed (encouraged) to ride
sidewalks almost everywhere, especially outside of
business districts, it seems you would be at fault
even if you did come to a complete stop, mr. 'some
witnesses said I did not come to a complete stop.'

Cool car though.

Of course I would simultaneously advise 'the kid' to
take more responsibility for his own safety and not
just ride out in front of Fairlanes that are in the
process of blowing red lights. But that's an entirely
different sort of responsibility than what you're
talking about.

Robert

Kerch said:

I hit a kid on a bike on Monday.
...
I slowed at the crosswalk...
...
I still had a red light.
...
Some witnesses said I did not come to a complete stop.

You're screwed. Pay up and don't let it go to court, because then you'll
be *really* screwed.

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

"Bob" wrote: (clip) if you can convince a jury that lack of adequate
parental supervision is to blame (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This case is not even close to going before a jury. Kerch was driving a
car, so, presumably has liability coverage, and an insurance company to
defend against THEIR loss. The kid was riding a bicycle, so I would assume
that no insurance company is representing him. They may reach a settlement
with the child's parents, just to shut them up--how much could it be? A
bicycle and a fingernail. OTOH, if the parents want to make a big deal out
of this, they will have to retain an attorney and file suit. Will an
attorney take a case this small on contingency? I wouldn't, and I don't
even have a law degree.

Wed, 07 Sep 2005 06:40:37 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, "Leo

Lichtman said:

Kerch was driving a
car, so, presumably has liability coverage, and an insurance company to
defend against THEIR loss. The kid was riding a bicycle, so I would assume
that no insurance company is representing him.

Simply judging by his address, his insurance company is the same as
the kid's, the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia. And, as long
as one of the kid's parent's has a driver's license the kid is equally
covered for the basic liability.

A MV owner may purchase additional insurance from ICBC or an
independent insurance company but they _must_ buy their basic coverage
from ICBC.

ICBC will pay the medical bills regardless of who is at fault.
--
zk

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

kerch wrote:

My advice to you mr. kerch is to not get too
excited about claims against your insurance.
Just be thankful you didn't run over the kid and
kill him. Put your energy into being more careful.

That's good advice. The parents are doing the right thing by filing a claim.
They may have taken their son to the ER to be checked out, for one thing,
and a trip to the ER will be vastly more expensive than a $150 bike.