Cycling and running ?

ko tko said:

I do Boxing and they say that if I want to build a good endurance. That I should run, but I can't run for a long periode. Because I have problems with my left foot. So now I want to do cycling for building a good endurance. So is cycling as good as running for endurance ?

I'm not sure how either one is going to help you in boxing. Read the article in this link...

http://www.sportsci.org/news/news9709/hatfield.html

The time-honoured -- but unfortunately ill-conceived -- practice of long, slow distance work as a conditioning regimen for boxers is what Evander learned from the training dinosaurs of his youth, and had continued with for years.

Doctor Morbius said:

I'm not sure how either one is going to help you in boxing. Read the article in this link...

sportsci.orghatfield.htmlOpen ↗

The time-honoured -- but unfortunately ill-conceived -- practice of long, slow distance work as a conditioning regimen for boxers is what Evander learned from the training dinosaurs of his youth, and had continued with for years.

Thanks for the link. In boxing endurance is very important. I already train anaerobic endurance. No I want to train my aerobic endurance.

So is cycling as good as running for aerobic endurance ?

ko tko said:

So is cycling as good as running for aerobic endurance ?

I searched the internet and I found this.

2. What's the best form of aerobic exercise?
Any form of steady exercise will be effective, in health terms, provided that it uses large muscle groups and can be sustained over time, preferably 30 to 45 minutes. Cross-country skiing and moderate-to-fast cycling are the most aerobically demanding sports, followed by running, swimming, aerobic dance and, finally, walking.

from this linkintelihealth.com37149.htmlOpen ↗

ko tko said:

Thanks for the link. In boxing endurance is very important. I already train anaerobic endurance. No I want to train my aerobic endurance.

So is cycling as good as running for aerobic endurance ?

As a general conditionning phase, cycling could be good I guess. But at one point in a training season, one must develop some specific aerobic endurance.

Also, I would trust swimming more than cycling to develop endurance, as swimming would at least put a great deal of stress on : Shoulders, Lattissimus dorsis, Pectorals, Tricieps, abdominals, and finally, legs. Also, a good swimming technique involve to apply some explosive forces. The arm, as it travels in the water, must accelarate all the way to the end. In free style (Crawl) and butterfly, the upper back (latissimus dorsis) and the triceps are the most sollicitated muscles.

But even if swimming involves more muscle groups, it would not be sufficient for a good specific endurance development. Aside from boxing, I beleive that " Circuit Training" can be good. Example :
In a gymn, repeat 3 times
- 10 minutes cycling (begining slow, accelarate, finish hard)
- 60 pushups
- Some pliometry exercices
- Sit ups with medecine balls
- could add more exercices
- NO REST between the exercices
- You do it with a Heart rate monitor

After that, you do some boxing

I think that kind of endurance training could be beneficial for a boxer, as it would delay the muscle fatigue, more that simply cycling.

ko tko said:

I do Boxing and they say that if I want to build a good endurance. That I should run, but I can't run for a long periode. Because I have problems with my left foot. So now I want to do cycling for building a good endurance. So is cycling as good as running for endurance ?

To me there is nothing as intense as a good long run. When Iam done I am pumped and from what I know it is the most intense form of aerobic activity out there. I have read that cycling may be able to push the aerbic system even further. Look up Carmichal training systems on a web search thats where I read it. Check out some pro cyclist resting heart rates in the 30's. I mix it up run, swim, bike, and I try to mix in some weights. The law of training specificty states you need to train the specific muscles you want to have trained. any aerobic activity will train the heart and lungs but a swimmer will tire running because of the different muscle groups used. there is not much cross over. One other personal note when I finish a long run I do some push ups and they seem to happen fairly easy I am not sure why though.

Yes, it is. The boxer Lennox Lewis did some serious cycling with a proper cyclist who accompanied him for climbs at training camp. At 245 pounds, Lennox was extremely fit on the bike. The only reason boxers jog or skip is mainly, I think, due to custom.
I'm not sure I agree with this idea of Hatfield that boxers should focus so much on weights. Lennox did both cycling and weights together and he retired as heavyweight champ. Boxers need strength, speed and endurance, I think.

ko tko said:

Thanks for the link. In boxing endurance is very important. I already train anaerobic endurance. No I want to train my aerobic endurance.

So is cycling as good as running for aerobic endurance ?

It depends how one defines "best" in terms of cardio. Rowing burns calories faster and uses more major muscle groups than any other form of cardio. The only thing close is swimming. The problem with both of these is that it takes a while to learn to do them effectively.

ko tko, based on the previous posts you have your answer. All you have to do are the following...

• swim
  
• cycle
  
• row
  
• circuit train
  
• weights
  

🙄

I think you'd better bite the bullet and get a good coach... one with some modern up to date training methods.

Carrera said:

Yes, it is. The boxer Lennox Lewis did some serious cycling with a proper cyclist who accompanied him for climbs at training camp. At 245 pounds, Lennox was extremely fit on the bike. The only reason boxers jog or skip is mainly, I think, due to custom.
I'm not sure I agree with this idea of Hatfield that boxers should focus so much on weights. Lennox did both cycling and weights together and he retired as heavyweight champ. Boxers need strength, speed and endurance, I think.

I don't think George Foreman did any road work, cycling or endurance work of any kind when he made his comeback. He was the world heavyweight champ at 45 years of age and 260 lbs. Go figure.

The fight between Lewis and Holyfield was really too close to call a definitive winner. The judges probably should have erred on the side of Holyfield on that one. Had they both been the same age the results would probably have favored Holyfield.

I don't know why a boxer wouldn't want to have a training program based heavily on weight training and plyometrics. What does endurance cycling or endurance running have to do with throwing a punch? Tyson trained quite a bit with weights before his biting days.

Hmmm, had George fought Muhammad Ali during the Liston period, it would haver been even worse than rope a dope.
Look how Ali danced round Sonny and moved so fast, Sonny could get nowhere near him. Like Tyson, Liston was a bruiser who had a lot of power but not so much stamina. Liston had a 72 pulse while Ali was around 52.
In his prime Ali (or Clay back then) did lots of running and cardio. Angelo Dundee recalls Ali would sprint uphill and not be fatigued. He did no weights and had no huge punch to speak of. With Ali it was speed, defensive boxing and footwork. He never went to the body, hung his hands down and hit while in retreat, jabs and right crosses being thrown with lightning speed.
Tyson was a great power puncher in his prime but limited. I think Ali would have beaten him in the seventh round in his prime. Tyson would never have found Ali since, as the saying goes:
"Dance like a butterfly, sting like a bee,
The glove can't hit what the eye can't see!" 🙂

Doctor Morbius said:

I don't think George Foreman did any road work, cycling or endurance work of any kind when he made his comeback. He was the world heavyweight champ at 45 years of age and 260 lbs. Go figure.

The fight between Lewis and Holyfield was really too close to call a definitive winner. The judges probably should have erred on the side of Holyfield on that one. Had they both been the same age the results would probably have favored Holyfield.

I don't know why a boxer wouldn't want to have a training program based heavily on weight training and plyometrics. What does endurance cycling or endurance running have to do with throwing a punch? Tyson trained quite a bit with weights before his biting days.

Carrera said:

.........
In his prime Ali (or Clay back then) did lots of running and cardio. Angelo Dundee recalls Ali would sprint uphill and not be fatigued........

For better efficiency, endurance should be specific. This principle is very important. I'm not a boxing expert, but I see more similarities between running and boxing, than between cycling and boxing. At least, both involve putting the whole body weight on the legs. Althoug I agree that cycling could be better than doing no endurance exercice at all, running is probably better.

But the problem is that KoTko can get injured if he runs for a long period of time. So I agree with Doctor Morbius, KoTko should consult a good coach, and maybe a running specialist could help him picking the right running shoes, while giving him some advices on how to run. 🙂

SolarEnergy said:

For better efficiency, endurance should be specific.

Exactly. That's why I referenced an article where zero running (or cycling or swimming, etc.) was used in preperation for the heavyweight champ. The routine was geared toward developing explosive strength/speed for punching and quick recovery from 3 minute bouts.

While other coaches and trainers may include various forms of long endurance exercise, the article goes to show that one can be the heavyweight champ of the world without it. That sort of sheds some light on the value of long endurance exercise when training for boxing matches. My personal view is that it would just cut into one's recovery time.

It's not so much a case that the big punchers can't become heavyweight champs but I think they're more limited. I would group Liston, Tyson and Foreman together. These kinds of fighters are dynamic in the first 2 or 3 rounds but once they fail to land that knockout punch, they run out of stamina and lose.
Foreman basically shoved Norton and Frazier to the ground in early rounds and both got up to be pushed down again. Tyson never usually went beyond 5 rounds and, when he did, he got into trouble. Liston sat back down on his stool against Ali in the first fight as he was plain exhausted after going more than his usual 3 rounds.
As for Ali, in his prime he had more stamina than Tyson or Liston. He didn't hit nowhere near as hard but he had far superior footwork and faster hands. Above all, he could dance for 15 rounds and keep going. Ali did a lot of roadwork but his lack of fitness after having been stripped of his title for 3 years cost him in fitness. After the 3 year gap, he couldn't stay on his toes for 15 rounds and even lost to Joe Frazier in their first bout.

Doctor Morbius said:

Exactly. That's why I referenced an article where zero running (or cycling or swimming, etc.) was used in preperation for the heavyweight champ. The routine was geared toward developing explosive strength/speed for punching and quick recovery from 3 minute bouts.

While other coaches and trainers may include various forms of long endurance exercise, the article goes to show that one can be the heavyweight champ of the world without it. That sort of sheds some light on the value of long endurance exercise when training for boxing matches. My personal view is that it would just cut into one's recovery time.

Carrera said:

It's not so much a case that the big punchers can't become heavyweight champs but I think they're more limited. I would group Liston, Tyson and Foreman together. These kinds of fighters are dynamic in the first 2 or 3 rounds but once they fail to land that knockout punch, they run out of stamina and lose.

I agree, but Holyfield wasn't one of those types of fighters at all. Far from it. Compared to Tyson he was a dancer and could go the distance when needed. And the article I referenced was how Holyfield trained. It didn't state that those training methods were used by any other fighters.

You're reading into my post something that isn't there.

The thing about Hollyfield is he was what they would call a jumped up cruiserweight. That is, he wasn't really a natural heavyweight at all. The weight training was essential for Evander since he didn't have the natural bulk to mix it with his rivals such as Tony Tucker.
What tends to happen with boxers is that the coach will determine a certain training regime for a specific situation. In Lennox Lewis's case, he would usually weight train in cases where he was facing a fighter such as Klitchko who was himself massive. But on other occasions, he might need to do more cardio and speed work when facing, say, Hollyfield.
But the 64,000 dollar question is do I believe boxers should continue to do traditional cardio, such as skipping and running. Well, I guess I would. However, I think cycling could also be a safer way to get into shape as opposed to running which is tougher on the knees.
Weights I also see as useful, especially for boxers who may be lacking the mass against a bigger opponent. But let's remember there is no real evidence to suggest that weights make your punching power increase. According to Jose Torres the most effective knockout punches are the ones you don't see and don't have time to prepare for. One such punch is the one Ali hit Liston with in the second rematch. It was so fast, Liston didn't see it coming.
Basically boxers need a long reach, a good jab, good footwork and endurance, plus speed. And I would rate Muhammad Ali and Jack Johnson as the all time greats in the sport. 🙂

Doctor Morbius said:

I agree, but Holyfield wasn't one of those types of fighters at all. Far from it. Compared to Tyson he was a dancer and could go the distance when needed. And the article I referenced was how Holyfield trained. It didn't state that those training methods were used by any other fighters.

You're reading into my post something that isn't there.

Doctor Morbius said:

Exactly. That's why I referenced an article where zero running (or cycling or swimming, etc.) was used in preperation for the heavyweight champ. The routine was geared toward developing explosive strength/speed for punching and quick recovery from 3 minute bouts.

While other coaches and trainers may include various forms of long endurance exercise, the article goes to show that one can be the heavyweight champ of the world without it. That sort of sheds some light on the value of long endurance exercise when training for boxing matches. My personal view is that it would just cut into one's recovery time.

That's quite drastic...
... but I like it😄
But when you think about it, Boxing "is a [censored]" to coach. So many abilities, so many aspects.
I often compare planing with painting. Boxing is quite a complex landscape to paint.

Just to clarify one thing guys: Zero running does not mean no endurance exercice.

Ideally, a runner should spend as much time as possible running at his/her race pace. A cyclist should also do the same.
It's safe assumption that boxers should develop as much specific endurance as possible, repeating the same kind of movements that they perform during 15 rounds. Legs are only a part of the equation. In boxing the whole body need to develop specific endurance. That's why some coaches question the benefits of running as part of a Boxer training program.🙂

That being said, I would not be surprise to learn that overloading the Aerobic system by performing once or twice a week, some running interval, could also be beneficial to some boxers.

Skipping would be better, especially if you want to be quick on your feet. It made an amazing difference to my Karate performance. It improves your fitness, improves explosive movement on your feet, and improves your timing especially if you do one leg skips, cross the rope between skips etc. You can skip backwards as well, to improve co-ordination and timing even more, and add something different to your routine. I used to find some appropriate fast music to help with motivation.

10mins continuous skipping is pretty hard work. Work up to that, or even 15-20mins, then add in some higher intensity intervals of ~3mins if that's how long your rounds are.

Once I started skipping, on my coach's advice, fitness was never ever a problem for me in competitions. Even the young fellas, who should be at their prime, could not (and still can't) keep up with me. Obviously it won't guarantee a win, coz you still need to hit with some skill and accuracy, but IMO it will be much better than running or cycling.

Cycling would be great aerobic training for boxing. I would keep the rides shorter and more intense to better simulate the boxing experience. ie. short 30 minute rides, or 1 hr rides with 3 minute intervals for anaerobic conditioning.

It's important not to forget that anaerobic training is also aerobic. ie. any expenditure you give in to oxygen debt must be paid in full eventually. So you CAN train for boxing with ONLY anaerobic training.

Any number of sports can give you that training, but cycling has the advantage of strengthening the legs which just might help keep you on your feet when you'd otherwise go down.

As always, sports specific conditioning is best. If you can do intense heavy bag workouts and good sparring sessions you will be getting great fighting conditioning.

The only boxer I heard of who cycles seriously is Lennox Lewis. Usually boxers just jog but, of course, jogging is tougher on the knees.
But just going slightly off topic, I think there's only one way to box and Muhammad Ali typified that method in his prime (before he lost his licence over Vietnam).
You see, the thing is, nobody could get anywhere near Ali in those early days. I was watching Sly Stallone's Contender series on T.V. some weeks back and I figured the contestants were getting a tough introduction to boxing. Basically, they were getting cuts on the face, having stitches and their eyes being closed up. But, to me, the idea of boxing is not to get hit.
This is why Ali made this big thing about saying how pretty he was in the early days. Only Henry Cooper ever knocked him down during pre-Vietnam and even that was because Ali was fooling about with Cooper.
I hold the same opinion as Jose Torres and Larry Holmes. Had Ali in his prime have fought Tyson in his prime, Tyson would never have landed a glove on Ali. IT's also interesting to note that Sonny Liston's resting pulse was actually 72 while Ali's was 52, so looking back we can see how Ali had more stamina. This was Liston's downfall, perhaps.
As a puncher, they reckon he could match Tyson but, like Tyson, he was frustrated by speed, footwork and didn't have the endurance to go into the later rounds.
Oh, anyone who's interested. Sly is about to film Rocky 6.

jyeager said:

Cycling would be great aerobic training for boxing. I would keep the rides shorter and more intense to better simulate the boxing experience. ie. short 30 minute rides, or 1 hr rides with 3 minute intervals for anaerobic conditioning.

It's important not to forget that anaerobic training is also aerobic. ie. any expenditure you give in to oxygen debt must be paid in full eventually. So you CAN train for boxing with ONLY anaerobic training.

Any number of sports can give you that training, but cycling has the advantage of strengthening the legs which just might help keep you on your feet when you'd otherwise go down.

As always, sports specific conditioning is best. If you can do intense heavy bag workouts and good sparring sessions you will be getting great fighting conditioning.