time trial training

Future-pro said:

well im doing a ten mile time trial again tommorow trying to beat my pb of 24:52 min my usual tactic is to ride steady averaging 25 mph for the first 5 miles then pickup speed on the last 5 miles averaging 28mph to 30mph can anyone recommend a better tactic than this and also whats the best training for time trials i do vo2max intervals every week 5 min going as fast as i can 3 min recovery then repeating this 4 times and lactate threshold reps 3min fast as i can 1 min recovery can anyone recommend any better training methods for time trialing

What's the topography of the course? Flat? Rolling? Major climbs? Is it an out/back or closed loop? What is the forecast wind? As to pacing, if your strategy is constant power you would want to try to ride as close as possible to your max sustainable power for the whole 10 miles. There are better pacing strategies for courses with significant grade and/or wind changes, but you'll need to describe the course to get into that.

My strategy is strikingly similar to Rap-Daddyo's but with a few salient differences:

**Eat heavily 3 hours before the ride - rolled oats**

**Warm up thoroughly with a few solid 3 minute pieces**

**Put Slayer's "Angel of Death" on the IPOD on repeat, volume 11**

**Give metal horn salute at start line, clip in and get ready to GIVE 'ER**

Do all that and you'll be fine.

Future-pro said:

... whats the best training for time trials i do vo2max intervals every week 5 min going as fast as i can 3 min recovery then repeating this 4 times and lactate threshold reps 3min fast as i can 1 min recovery can anyone recommend any better training methods for time trialing

I was under the impression that VO2 max intervals were 3 to 5 minutes in duration and LT intervals were 15 to 20 (occasionally 30) minutes in duration. 😕

Doctor Morbius said:

I was under the impression that VO2 max intervals were 3 to 5 minutes in duration and LT intervals were 15 to 20 (occasionally 30) minutes in duration. 😕

I think you've got it about right. While there are a few variations in the recommended min/max duration of intervals and recovery, the consensus seems to be that VO2MAX intervals are anywhere from 2-8 mins with longer recoveries (e.g., equal to or even greater than the interval duration). LT intervals are anywhere from 10-30 mins with shorter recoveries (e.g., 10%-20% of interval duration). I think the OP may have his terminology a little mixed.

Future-pro said:

well im doing a ten mile time trial again tommorow trying to beat my pb of 24:52 min my usual tactic is to ride steady averaging 25 mph for the first 5 miles then pickup speed on the last 5 miles averaging 28mph to 30mph

I keep going over the maths and I can't help concluding that you've never yet managed your usual tactics.... 🙂

Good luck in the race.

well i did the time trial today i did it in 24:48 min so im pleased with that effort

Future-pro said:

well i did the time trial today i did it in 24:48 min so im pleased with that effort

Congrats. What was your pacing strategy (your plan) and what was your actual pacing (your performance)?

RapDaddyo said:

I think you've got it about right. While there are a few variations in the recommended min/max duration of intervals and recovery, the consensus seems to be that VO2MAX intervals are anywhere from 2-8 mins with longer recoveries (e.g., equal to or even greater than the interval duration). LT intervals are anywhere from 10-30 mins with shorter recoveries (e.g., 10%-20% of interval duration). I think the OP may have his terminology a little mixed.

That's what I've understood anyway. Then sprint training is anything like 30 to 90 seconds with mucho time between bouts for maximum recovery and maximum efforts. Microintervals, which don't seem to be discussed much here, are 15 seconds full on with 15 second recovery periods.

I don't remember the scheme for over/under intervals. I'm so ashamed! :o

Future-pro said:

well im doing a ten mile time trial again tommorow trying to beat my pb of 24:52 min my usual tactic is to ride steady averaging 25 mph for the first 5 miles then pickup speed on the last 5 miles averaging 28mph to 30mph...<snipped>

I'd recommend a change in tactics. Since your usual tactics should give you a time of ~22 mins, but your usual execution is slower than that by ~3mins, I'd say you need to be a little more realistic about the speeds you'll be able to hold for the entire event. Your best time of 25min is about a 24mph average, so why not look at trying to hold 23mph on the way out and 25mph on the way back, with an all-out push during the last 1-2 miles.

That strategy should be modified based on course topography and wind, of course.

Doctor Morbius said:

That's what I've understood anyway. Then sprint training is anything like 30 to 90 seconds with mucho time between bouts for maximum recovery and maximum efforts. Microintervals, which don't seem to be discussed much here, are 15 seconds full on with 15 second recovery periods.

Yes. When I look at it, my interval power is about 90% of the maximum power* I can sustain for the given duration and the recovery duration is about as short as possible in order to complete the interval sequence. For example, I estimate my MP* for 20 mins at ~275w and for 10 mins at ~320w. My L4 interval range is 249w-289w. If I look at the lower end of that range as associated with the longer intervals (e.g., 20 mins) and the upper end of the range as associated with the shorter intervals (e.g., 10 mins), then the L4 interval power as a percentage of my MP at that duration is 90.5% and 90.3% respectively. This relationship (90% of MP* for that duration) seems about right for the L5s and L6s as well. I like having a target interval power for the full power/duration curve, because I adapt my interval durations to the terrain. For example, I have a hill that I presently climb in ~14 mins. So, I want a target interval power for 14 mins. I have other training routes that lend themselves to other durations, but I find it inconvenient to try and find a place to do an interval of, say, 20 mins.

* With typical training motivation, which will be less than the MP one can sustain with more motivation (e.g., a race).

I do a lot of tts North of the border. I train for the almost exclusively on a turbo, and over the years(20+) have found this to be the best. Am now doing 22 min 10s, 59 min 25s and have done so all year. I have to admit to not having done intervals since June, but as I have been riding 50s & 100s I have been doing miles. I use a Cateye Cyclosimulator, but anything that gives power readouts is fine. The interval work for me started in January doing 15, 10 & 5 min intervals. I found a level at which the 15 was hard but sustainable (said 300w on machine but a real 250ish) and added 10w to the other efforts. 5 min rest between. Then moved to 5 on 2 off( up to 8 efforts) again upping watts. Then after 6 weeks did 3 on 3 off at420w(up to 10) All this twice a week. By the end I was fitter than I have ever been, but knackered! I have had a good season by my standards and should be in the top 20 in the Scottish BAR which was my goal. All this means that I have to up it next year however.
I have not got it yet but may invest in the Pete Read Racing Little White Book to see if he has other sessions to help, but all this has worked forme. I do think that finding sessions you can do consistantly is the key. I can also do full on 10mile efforts on the turbo as a guide. This will also let you try differing strategies.
Have tried the microitervals- flat out 10sec 20 off in 10 min block, 10min off. Managed 15 min of effort and threw up( have a shed for the turbo so no bigee). Did once a week for 3 weeks and I did feel stronger about 3 weeks later- had a peak race in mind for this and it worked.

mark higgins said:

Have tried the microitervals- flat out 10sec 20 off in 10 min block, 10min off. Managed 15 min of effort and threw up( have a shed for the turbo so no bigee). Did once a week for 3 weeks and I did feel stronger about 3 weeks later- had a peak race in mind for this and it worked.

Microintervals aren't supposed to be done flat out. We recommend 10-sec on, 10-sec off at MAP and low power respectively,

Ric

ric_stern/RST said:

Microintervals aren't supposed to be done flat out. We recommend 10-sec on, 10-sec off at MAP and low power respectively,

Ric

Maybe what I am doing are not microintervals then. I got this info from my coach/clubmate who got them from Mark Atkinsons coach. They work Ok for him so I gave them a try. He is damn quick!!

well in terms of pacing i did what i said i would do the reason why my time is slower than you would of thought is the course is a rolling course with quite a few hills not particulary tough hills but if you are overweight like i unfortunatly am my speed drops to around 19mph to 20 mph therefore i find it necessary to hold 25mph on the flats for the first 5 mile and try to hold 28mph to 30 mph on the last 5 miles in order to come close to the time i know this doesnt sound like the most ideal strategy and i have tried various others but until i can get down to an ideal weight its the only think which works which will have an impact upon the time i do the course in