Online coach?

P.S. I do use a heart rate monitor and I hve done the test in Joe Friels book recently to discover my LT. I will start training to build my aerobic foundation as described in Chris Charmicheals book this week.
Thanks again,
Bryan

bryanquinn said:

I was wondering how many of you guys that don't race use an online coach?

At RST we coach a few riders who don't race -- typically, these riders are those who either do sportifs (e.g., Etape du Tour, Marmotte, etc.) or who are training for fitness/fast on club runs (or group rides etc).

Quoted post said:

I've been cycling now for a little over ten years. I ride or train? for a while then get off the bike for some time. Sometimes it can be months before I feel like riding. I'm not sure if I'm overtraining or I just get bored with it.

if you don't have any goals or objectives, then it can be easy to lose motivation and temporarily 'give up'. It's probably unlikely that you are actually overtrained, as it requires an awful lot of training to get in that condition (and for the most part work, family, school, etc gets in the 'way' and prevents us from overtraining). Even when workloads are doubled it can be difficult to induce overtraining.

Quoted post said:

I would love riding with a local club on week ends, but I don't like joining in until I am confident in my abilities to get back to my truck should I get dropped or lost on the ride.

i'd encourage you to find a group/club who are about your ability level and who will look after you should you become unduly fatigued (rather than a group who will put the boot in, and try to drop you and show you who'se the "boss". Avoid these groups -- at least for the time being).

When you contact the group (maybe a list of team names on your local cycling district's website) find out where the club goes on a weekend ride and then if the worse comes to the worse you can plan your way back to your vehicle. Of course, you should also think positive -- you may have a higher fitness level than you think, and you'll be fine on the ride.

Quoted post said:

I've been riding this time for about a month now. I have had to take the last week of due to an illness. (Possible over training?) not sure.
I just bought Chris Carmichaels' book "The Ultimate Ride". (I also have Joe Friels book and Arnie Bakers book). He stresses using a coach quite a bit in his book. It all sounds great, but with barely enough money to buy the upgrades for my bike from time to time (and we all know this is necessary 😉 I don't know how affordable it would be.

For sure, coaching will almost certainly help you improve and get fitter. Books can be good, but an experienced coach will also help and probably help you increase your fitness at a faster rate.

Quoted post said:

I'm not interested in racing at this point in my life but would like to grow more confident in my abilities while training and know that I am doing the right thing.
I am interested in any input on this subject and look forward to hearing from those of you who have had experience with an on line coach ie: cost and how it worked out for you.
Thank you,
Bryan

Online coaching is often very good, and we have an excellent success rate with our clients meeting their goals (>98% success rate). Of course, you should chat/interview the coach and see if your personalities 'gel'. no matter how good a coach is, not everyone will 'gel', and this would lead to a poor coach-rider relationship.

The other point to consider is how much contact you want with your coach -- this will determine the price that you pay, as obviously, the more time you want to spend with your coach (either online or in person) the more it will cost. We offer a range of coaching packages that start for an *individual* at US$50/mth, or for groups of 25 at US$27/mth/rider when paid in full.

The other point that maybe worth considering, is that you join a local cycling team they may well have a coach, who can provide free coaching (although this can be hit or miss) to the teams riders, which may help you. Additionally, some of the experienced riders will be able to offer you tips and help you improve.

Please feel free to give either myself, Smartt/RST, or Andy/RST an email or call and see if we can help you.

Ric

ric_stern/RST said:

When you contact the group (maybe a list of team names on your local cycling district's website) find out where the club goes on a weekend ride and then if the worse comes to the worse you can plan your way back to your vehicle. Of course, you should also think positive -- you may have a higher fitness level than you think, and you'll be fine on the ride.

I would just add to inquire whether they have planned 'regroup' points on their route. If so, then there's probably some expectation on their part that people will ride somewhat at their own pace, and will catch up when the group stops. This is helpful for 2 reasons: 1) if *you* get dropped, then they'll at least wait for you at some point, and 2) more importantly, it shows that there are other members of the group who ride slower than the advertised group pace, so you'll have people to ride with even if you cannot hold the 'group' pace.

bryanquinn said:

I would love riding with a local club on week ends, but I don't like joining in until I am confident in my abilities to get back to my truck should I get dropped or lost on the ride.

I realize your primary question is whether to hire an online coach, but let me weigh in on your comments about riding with a local club. I don't know about the clubs in your area, but let me tell you how it works in my area. We have a variety of clubs here and some of them definitely ride at a fast pace and you're on your own if you get dropped. But, we have 2-3 clubs here that are far more accommodating of newbies. The club I presently ride with has at least one ride every weekend day plus holidays. Although we have some faster riders who ride at ~18-20mph, we always have a group that goes at ~12-15mph. This group rides with both a ride leader and a sweeper. The sweeper helps anybody with a mechanical problem (e.g., flat tire) or just has difficulty maintaining the pace. We have re-group points on every ride and we don't leave anybody behind. We hold regular classes on cycling safety and flat tire repair, etc. The more experienced riders are always ready to offer advice on technique, equipment or anything else about cycling.
[indent]One of my fondest memories is of a female newbie rider a couple of months ago. She was a bit overweight and was struggling mightily to keep up. Her upper body was moving around a lot and she was just working way too hard for our pace (~15mph). I rode up beside her and said, "You're working awfully hard. Would you like to know how to go this speed and not work so hard?" She said she'd be thrilled to learn how to not work so hard and I explained to her what I call a "gravity-drop" pedaling stroke that makes maximum use of leg weight and gravity and involves almost no "pushing." The next weekend she came up to me before we started our ride and she was absolutely glowing. She said that she had practiced what I suggested and that it had completely changed her outlook on cycling. She realized she had been working way too hard and was ecstatic to have learned how to do it easier. I still see her on almost every ride. Now she wants to learn how to do intervals. I love it.🙂
[/indent]

Thank you for your comments thus far. I will check with my local clubs and discuss with them the possibility of riding with a group that more fits my present fitness. I guess I'm still thinking like a 35 yr old in that I should bounce back much sooner and have more stamina then I do at this point.
Bryan

I'm a 48 year old fitness rider. I had made some progress on my own over a year of every day riding, but definitely had done just about as much bad on my own as good. I worked through Lance's Seven Weeks To The Perfect Ride and then moved on to The Ultimate Ride. I made some good on my own with TUR, but still ended up with more questions and concerns than not. I noticed the free trial offer in the book and decided to try CTS.

I joined CTS last fall and have been using their entry level Classic package. For about the cost of a dinner out I get a month's worth of great coaching and access to a tailored workout, nutrition and education routine. Coaches are accessible through an online forum, and the CTS community of riders and athletes are an invaluable source of information, solutions and, most of all, encouragement. I was really wondering if a damn near 50 year old fitness rider could stand to gain anything from a coaching routine. Based upon my experience, I can only say absolutely!

While I have not directly used RST, I can also say that ric has given me exactly the same type of expertise, individual attention and encouragement through these forums. I am quite sure that the entry level package that his coaching program offers would be well worth the money. I still remember a couple of his comments in response to my ride and fitness result posts. Many many times, they have kept me going when I really needed something to keep me inspired. Were I to have used his service, I am sure that I would be telling you the same things as I have experienced with CTS.

Simply put a good coach is a gift to anybody who wants to train smart, stay injury free and get the kind of results that speak for themselves. And for what these entry level packages cost, it is a heck of a deal. As with anything though, you will get out of it what you put into it. But I definitely don't push hard - burn out - push hard - burn out like I did when I was just riding on my own. No coach will ever let you do that, at least not without a fight.

Hope this helps. And thanks again ric for all that you do. These forums are great and your work is first class. 😉

rule62 said:

I joined CTS last fall and have been using their entry level Classic package. For about the cost of a dinner out I get a month's worth of great coaching and access to a tailored workout, nutrition and education routine. Coaches are accessible through an online forum, and the CTS community of riders and athletes are an invaluable source of information, solutions and, most of all, encouragement. I was really wondering if a damn near 50 year old fitness rider could stand to gain anything from a coaching routine. Based upon my experience, I can only say absolutely!

i thought i'd share some similar experiences. We've had a couple of riders a little older than you, who initially joined to do sportifs -- their comments were they were too old to race (early 50's). One of the riders came over to visit me, and we discussed training and how things would change over the course of time, and went for a ride. The rider was working pretty intensively, and my initial thought was that maybe his goal (Etape du Tour) would be too much for him. At this point the rider had been training in haphazard way 4 - 6 days/week for over a year.

We set the rider up with some good coaching, and following feedback and results started to see some good things happen after a couple months. Firstly, we noticed a good drop in weight (fat mass) while he ate more than previously. During this period his doctor recorded a decrease in cholesterol, and blood pressure, allowing him to stop requiring blood pressure meds.

As the training progressed he now found he could not only stay with faster groups in his team, but could start to drop them with hard efforts. After more continued training he decided it would be fun to race, and made his way to being a 3rd cat. Bearing in mind the rider had never raced previously this was excellent progression. Rider then went to the Etape, and exceeded all expectations and goals. Rider then came back to visit me and we went on a training ride together. Unlike the previous time where i'd had to coast so he could keep up with me, we had a great training ride where he was able to dish out some pain!

Quoted post said:

While I have not directly used RST, I can also say that ric has given me exactly the same type of expertise, individual attention and encouragement through these forums. I am quite sure that the entry level package that his coaching program offers would be well worth the money. I still remember a couple of his comments in response to my ride and fitness result posts. Many many times, they have kept me going when I really needed something to keep me inspired. Were I to have used his service, I am sure that I would be telling you the same things as I have experienced with CTS.

Simply put a good coach is a gift to anybody who wants to train smart, stay injury free and get the kind of results that speak for themselves. And for what these entry level packages cost, it is a heck of a deal. As with anything though, you will get out of it what you put into it. But I definitely don't push hard - burn out - push hard - burn out like I did when I was just riding on my own. No coach will ever let you do that, at least not without a fight.

Hope this helps. And thanks again ric for all that you do. These forums are great and your work is first class. 😉

Thanks Rule62. Your comments are much appreciated, and at RST we'd like to help as many people as possible -- which is why the forum is so great. It enables us to get our advice across to more people than we could coach, and hopefully help them to improve. I'd like to thank Steve, for providing the forum, and Michael and Andy as the other two RST coaches who provide such great info. Of course there are also other great coaches/scientists here on the forum as well.

Of course, no matter how good the forum is we believe that coaching is a significant step up to increased fitness and performance. With the introduction of our entry level coaching package (Team Coaching which is for individuals as well) coaching is within the reach of the majority of people. One fantastic point of this package, is that the more riders you join with (5+) the less you pay per rider as we operate a sliding scale of payment. You don't need to be from the same team, you don't need to do the same discipline (e.g., RR, MTB), and you don't need the same goals. Just get a group, team, or club together and the price decreases!

As i hinted above, riding with a rider that you coach can also be a great way of spotting other potential issues. With that in mind, and many other points we'll be holding an RST Training camp in Jan 06. Possibly not to far from Rule62 (Texas). We'll keep you all posted with the details.

Ric

I'll have to say that my experience with onlinecoaching was less than impressive. I chose online coaching because I was concerned about the level of local coaching experience with power and I had made the decision to start training with power. So I signed up with one of the more prominent power based coaching groups. It was a total disaster. My coach consistently failed to meet event he minimum levels ofservice agreed to in my service plan. was inconsistent on getting me training plans on time. And when he did they weren't at the levels I was currently training to. SO I was forced to rework my plans. I received no feedback from any powertap files I ever sent him so I stopped sending them after 12 weeks. He failed to to fully understand my goals. And thus didn't have me prepped properly for events. After the first 3 times it happened I had to start modifying the plans to meet the needs of my transitions between Mtn and road bikefor these events. (I do ultra endurance events) Never kept my FTP testing current (initial test and that was it) So all training was based on my FTP as tested when I signed up with them. Then when I quit paying them they had the audacity to try and say that I owed them for the unpaid months and also that I had to give them notice to fire them. Unbelievable. I made them an offer that if my coach knew my FTP I'd sign up for another year right then at the next level. If he didn't they should refund all the money I had paid them. No takers.

I think coaching is a good thing. Just find a local one. The price will probably be comparable to the internet. And the level of service has a tremendous chance of being superior.

Ric, I know that you do a lot if internet coaching and I hope that your clients experience is nothing like mine. However, mine was so bad as to sour me on the whole method.

I'm sorry that your experience of online coaching has been clouded (although for other readers of the forum, i want to clarify that it wasn't us that was coaching you).

It's unfortunate that you've had such a poor experience, but this shouldn't give you a bad feeling about all online (or in person) coaches. This would be akin to e.g., buying a car, finding it broken and then never purchasing another car again. I've purchased some cr@p cars in my time, but i know that those bad cars aren't always representative of all cars. In other words i'll continue to purchase cars.

Jerry, in your case it doesn't sound like it was bad online coaching, it was just bad coaching full stop. This could happen either with an in-person coach or an online one.

Obviously, i don't know who you were previously signed up with, but i have an idea. At RST we do our utmost to offer an exemplary service, we're small enough to care passionately about all 'our' riders, and big enough to cope - which we do by limiting the amount of people we coach at anyone time. This allows us to focus carefully on the riders we do coach.

It's important when looking for a coach to ascertain several points
1) the coach is academically qualified -- at RST the coaches, have degrees or higher in sports science or similar and are qualified coaches
2) the coach has experience of the events that you participate in -- this can either be from practical experience or from a good sound understanding of the physiology behind the event (for e.g., i work with a world class 200-m/1-km track sprinter, yet anyone will tell you that my sprinting sucks badly).
3) perhaps the most important factor is: do you gel with your coach? You and your coach need to get on, and have a good relationship. it's unlikely to be a productive relationship if you hate each other and have no respect for each other
4) interview the coach and see what they're like. Ring them, email them.
5) the coach has experience of the equipment you will be using (e.g., power meters)
6) what level(s) has the coach, coached at? For e.g., at RST we coach riders at "get fit" level through to Euro Pros and everything in between in most of the traditional cycling disciplines -- i.e., road, track, TT, MTB, sportifs, cyclo X, etc. plus triathlon.

Okay that was more than several! Hopefully this partial list helps you/others

cheers
ric

jerryz said:

I'll have to say that my experience with onlinecoaching was less than impressive. I chose online coaching because I was concerned about the level of local coaching experience with power and I had made the decision to start training with power. So I signed up with one of the more prominent power based coaching groups. It was a total disaster. My coach consistently failed to meet event he minimum levels ofservice agreed to in my service plan. was inconsistent on getting me training plans on time. And when he did they weren't at the levels I was currently training to. SO I was forced to rework my plans. I received no feedback from any powertap files I ever sent him so I stopped sending them after 12 weeks. He failed to to fully understand my goals. And thus didn't have me prepped properly for events. After the first 3 times it happened I had to start modifying the plans to meet the needs of my transitions between Mtn and road bikefor these events. (I do ultra endurance events) Never kept my FTP testing current (initial test and that was it) So all training was based on my FTP as tested when I signed up with them. Then when I quit paying them they had the audacity to try and say that I owed them for the unpaid months and also that I had to give them notice to fire them. Unbelievable. I made them an offer that if my coach knew my FTP I'd sign up for another year right then at the next level. If he didn't they should refund all the money I had paid them. No takers.

I think coaching is a good thing. Just find a local one. The price will probably be comparable to the internet. And the level of service has a tremendous chance of being superior.

Ric, I know that you do a lot if internet coaching and I hope that your clients experience is nothing like mine. However, mine was so bad as to sour me on the whole method.

I also want to make clear it was not Ric/RST that I had the bad experience with. Additionally I am not soured on all coaching. I just ended up finishing this year coaching myself.

I may go back to a coach again in the future and have interviewed a couple of local coaches to that end for next season. The weakness with most of the local guys is they lack experience with power training. And at this point I'm not really in favor of paying premium so they can learn how to train people using power. On the other hand I've educated myself, out of neccessity, and am willing to trade that knowledge in some sort of cooperative effort. No, it does not mean that I am looking to not pay a coach. It just means that if I'm going to have to do some of that side of the job then I should not have to pay their full rate.

And yes Ric I suspect you know who it is. It is a rather small community.

ric_stern/RST said:

I'm sorry that your experience of online coaching has been clouded (although for other readers of the forum, i want to clarify that it wasn't us that was coaching you).

It's unfortunate that you've had such a poor experience, but this shouldn't give you a bad feeling about all online (or in person) coaches. This would be akin to e.g., buying a car, finding it broken and then never purchasing another car again. I've purchased some cr@p cars in my time, but i know that those bad cars aren't always representative of all cars. In other words i'll continue to purchase cars.

Jerry, in your case it doesn't sound like it was bad online coaching, it was just bad coaching full stop. This could happen either with an in-person coach or an online one.

Obviously, i don't know who you were previously signed up with, but i have an idea. At RST we do our utmost to offer an exemplary service, we're small enough to care passionately about all 'our' riders, and big enough to cope - which we do by limiting the amount of people we coach at anyone time. This allows us to focus carefully on the riders we do coach.

It's important when looking for a coach to ascertain several points
1) the coach is academically qualified -- at RST the coaches, have degrees or higher in sports science or similar and are qualified coaches
2) the coach has experience of the events that you participate in -- this can either be from practical experience or from a good sound understanding of the physiology behind the event (for e.g., i work with a world class 200-m/1-km track sprinter, yet anyone will tell you that my sprinting sucks badly).
3) perhaps the most important factor is: do you gel with your coach? You and your coach need to get on, and have a good relationship. it's unlikely to be a productive relationship if you hate each other and have no respect for each other
4) interview the coach and see what they're like. Ring them, email them.
5) the coach has experience of the equipment you will be using (e.g., power meters)
6) what level(s) has the coach, coached at? For e.g., at RST we coach riders at "get fit" level through to Euro Pros and everything in between in most of the traditional cycling disciplines -- i.e., road, track, TT, MTB, sportifs, cyclo X, etc. plus triathlon.

Okay that was more than several! Hopefully this partial list helps you/others

cheers
ric

jerryz said:

I may go back to a coach again in the future and have interviewed a couple of local coaches to that end for next season. The weakness with most of the local guys is they lack experience with power training. And at this point I'm not really in favor of paying premium so they can learn how to train people using power. On the other hand I've educated myself, out of neccessity, and am willing to trade that knowledge in some sort of cooperative effort. No, it does not mean that I am looking to not pay a coach. It just means that if I'm going to have to do some of that side of the job then I should not have to pay their full rate.

i don't want to state the obvious, but have you thought of using a coaching company that does know how to use a power meter? Obviously, there is us, and there's some others that i would hope are reasonable.

Unfortunately, my geographical intelligence is rather lacking (and is likely the inverse of my coaching)... i see that you're located in the States, and it would appear that you're looking for a local coach (although i think a good online coach would be just as good) - i don't know if smartty/RST who is in CA is anywhere near you? (i have probably opened myself up for horrible ridicule now, as you're bound to be located on the other side of the US!).

Quoted post said:

And yes Ric I suspect you know who it is. It is a rather small community.

there's two companies i hear regular complaints against.

ric

jerryz said:

I may go back to a coach again in the future and have interviewed a couple of local coaches to that end for next season. The weakness with most of the local guys is they lack experience with power training. And at this point I'm not really in favor of paying premium so they can learn how to train people using power. On the other hand I've educated myself, out of neccessity, and am willing to trade that knowledge in some sort of cooperative effort. No, it does not mean that I am looking to not pay a coach. It just means that if I'm going to have to do some of that side of the job then I should not have to pay their full rate.

FYI, USA Cycling has recognized the rise in interest among both cyclists and coaches for training and racing with power and has recently established a formal certification process for this. The certification is only available to Expert or Elite USA Cycling Coaches and requires passing a competency test. A specific 2-day seminar is offered, but not mandatory. The test is mandatory. The reason I know is that I have just completed the requirements for the USA Cycling Club Coach License and am planning to attend the Expert Coach Clinic in October and the Power Clinic in December to become both an Expert Coach and a Certified Power Based Training (PBT) Coach. Perhaps your coach had all of these credentials and more, but at least hiring a coach with these credentials ensures some base level of knowledge as required by USA Cycling. Personally, I would not hire a coach unless he was an Elite USA Cycling Coach with the PBT certificate (or equivalent credentials in another country).