Trike wheels

On 31 Jul 2003 10:34:32 -0700, [email hidden] (Jeff Wills) posted:

Quoted message said:

"Moosh:]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

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Hi folks. I'm dreaming of building a trike (that's code for designing in my head 🙂 I'm thinking
of using 20" BMX wheels as they are pretty tough. Someone on another group thought bike wheels
might not be able to take the side thrust of a multiwheeler, as they don't have to take much of
this on a two wheeler. Seeing some of the BMX stunts I wouldn't be surprised it they can take a
fair bit of side thrust.

The *wheels* will be able to take it, but the *axles* might not. Most commercial trikes use 12mm
hardened bolts for axles, with the unthreaded portion supporting sealed cartridge bearings. Using
smaller axles, or axles that are threaded all the way across, is asking for trouble. Either is
likely to break in short order.

(Note that this is only true on axles supported from one side. If you're building a trike that
supports the axle on both ends, standard bike wheels will be fine.)

Yep, I will be supporting both sides. Thanks for the confirmation.

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I also want those old tyres with circumferential ribs so that when pumped hard, only one thick
rib touches the tarmac. Seems they are not very popular in these days of go-anywhere knobblies on
mountain bikes. Any suggestions?

Completely slick tires will give you lower rolling resistance than the "center rib" type. Tioga
Comp Pools are consistently reported to have the lowest rolling resistance of any 20" tire.

Brilliant, thanks. It wasn't specifically the ribs I wanted, I just assumed that these would be the
least resistant to rolling. Counter intuitive, I suppose.

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I would also like one wheel with a three-speed hub gear in it. Any ideas what bikes may come like
this? I know there are 20" mountain bikes, but they come with knobblies and deraileurs from what I
can see. Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and get a LBS to make me up some wheels.

A 20" wheel with a "simple" 3-speed internal hub would have to be custom built. It's not all that
difficult to build wheels, but if you want to spend the money, have your bike shop do it for you.

Thanks, I just thought it would be quite complicated to get the correct length of spoke, and thought
a professional builder would have a range on hand for trial-and-error.

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20" wheels with the Sachs/SRAM "3x7" rear hub (a combination of derailleur and internal gears) are
used on a variety of recumbents, including the late Bikee.

They sound expensive. I actually have a Sturmey Archer FW 1958 brand new in original box. If I build
my own, I will put this in. I just thought that if there were cheap 3-speed-hubbed wheels about, it
might be cheaper and easier.

Moosh:] must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

They sound expensive. I actually have a Sturmey Archer FW 1958 brand new in original box. If I
build my own, I will put this in. I just thought that if there were cheap 3-speed-hubbed wheels
about, it might be cheaper and easier.

A 7 speed Shimano Nexus hub would not be overly expensive, and would not have the false neutrals
that the Sturmey has.

Ian

On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 10:55:49 +0100, Ian <[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

Moosh:] must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

They sound expensive. I actually have a Sturmey Archer FW 1958 brand new in original box. If I
build my own, I will put this in. I just thought that if there were cheap 3-speed-hubbed wheels
about, it might be cheaper and easier.

A 7 speed Shimano Nexus hub would not be overly expensive, and would not have the false neutrals
that the Sturmey has.

How much? Looks like close to $300 Australian in an American site. My FW is $ZERO.

BTW, aren't these false neutrals in the Sturmey 7? I haven't heard of this problem in the FW.

As this will be multiplying a 15 speed deraileur, that will give me 60 ratios to play with. Plenty
to keep my tiny brain amused 🙂

"Moosh:]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

As this will be multiplying a 15 speed deraileur, that will give me 60 ratios to play with. Plenty
to keep my tiny brain amused 🙂

You're combining a 15 speed derailleur system with a 3 speed internal hub? That's 45 speeds- and
it's a tough proposition. The parts are meant to be combined- you'll have to figure out how to fit
the cogs on the hub, extend the axle, figure out how to shift the hub, etc. etc. It's not
impossible- but other setups like this have been built by very experienced bike mechanics. It's not
something I'd attempt on my first trike.

Jeff

[email hidden] (Jeff Wills) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Moosh:]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

As this will be multiplying a 15 speed deraileur, that will give me 60 ratios to play with.
Plenty to keep my tiny brain amused 🙂

You're combining a 15 speed derailleur system with a 3 speed internal hub? That's 45 speeds- and
it's a tough proposition. The parts are meant to be combined- you'll have to figure out how to fit
the cogs on the hub, extend the axle, figure out how to shift the hub, etc. etc. It's not
impossible- but other setups like this have been built by very experienced bike mechanics. It's
not something I'd attempt on my first trike.

Though it should be fairly easy using a mid-drive setup. Get a 7-speed freewheel, replace the
largest cog with a small chainring (or just leave
it). Align that gear with the cog on the 3-speed wheel, and mount a derailleur for the bottom five
gears for the crank/mid-drive chain. Hardest part would be converting the freewheel to spin both
directions and then mounting it to the frame securely.

Biggest concern is to mount the mid-drive so that it doesn't contact the ground; without the
protection of the wheel, your derailleur could easily strike the ground and mess up your day
real quick.

-Bill Hamilton hasn't been planning a trike for his next project, nosiree he hasn't. 🙂

Bill Hamilton said:

... Biggest concern is to mount the mid-drive so that it doesn't contact the ground; without the
protection of the wheel, your derailleur could easily strike the ground and mess up your day
real quick.

-Bill Hamilton hasn't been planning a trike for his next project, nosiree he hasn't. 🙂

Bill,

Since you are not planning to build a trike with a mid-drive, I will not suggest using rear
suspension and making the mid-drive concentric with the suspension pivot to eliminate pogo. [1]

[1] This works so well I can not understand why it has not been adopted by recumbent designers - I
guess they have not been lucky enough to ride a Dragonflyer.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Bill,

Since you are not planning to build a trike with a mid-drive, I will not suggest using rear
suspension and making the mid-drive concentric with the suspension pivot to eliminate pogo. [1]

[1] This works so well I can not understand why it has not been adopted by recumbent designers - I
guess they have not been lucky enough to ride a Dragonflyer.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

See pictures.care2.com501192220Open ↗ and a more blatant version
pictures.care2.com816427344Open ↗ Does that last one look familiar? (^:

You probably meant "recumbent designers at current manufacturers" or similar.

Cheers, Rorschandt "Had I known for the past few years I would end up with a design like a
Dragonflyer, I would have just saved my time and money and bought one." ~r.

)

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Bill Hamilton said:

... Biggest concern is to mount the mid-drive so that it doesn't contact the ground; without the
protection of the wheel, your derailleur could easily strike the ground and mess up your day
real quick.

-Bill Hamilton hasn't been planning a trike for his next project, nosiree he hasn't. 🙂

Bill,

Since you are not planning to build a trike with a mid-drive, I will not suggest using rear
suspension and making the mid-drive concentric with the suspension pivot to eliminate pogo. [1]

I've been planning something like that. Right now, though, I'm working out a front suspension that
doesn't distort the front alignment when it activates. I'm also trying to finish the recumbent bike
I'm currently building 🙂 My projects tend to pile up behind my lack of time and money. 🙁

-Bill Hamilton

rorschandt <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

See pictures.care2.com501192220Open ↗ and a more blatant version
pictures.care2.com816427344Open ↗ Does that last one look familiar? (^:

Do you have a problem with the mid-drive derailleur hitting the ground when you cross
speedbumps and such?

Quoted message said:

Cheers, Rorschandt "Had I known for the past few years I would end up with a design like a
Dragonflyer, I would have just saved my time and money and bought one."

Yes, but think of all the fun you've had reinventing the wheel. :P

-Bill Hamilton

rorschandt said:

See pictures.care2.com501192220Open ↗ and a more blatant version
pictures.care2.com816427344Open ↗ Does that last one look familiar? (^:

You probably meant "recumbent designers at current manufacturers" or similar.

Cheers, Rorschandt "Had I known for the past few years I would end up with a design like a
Dragonflyer, I would have just saved my time and money and bought one." ~r.

The rear end of the Psycle is similar, but the Dragonflyer has an integrated pannier rack and lacks
the selectively bred wolf. 😉

The Care2.com banner ad implies that all the members are penguins.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

grated pannier rack and lacks the selectively bred wolf. 😉

The Care2.com banner ad implies that all the members are penguins.

Aren't they?

rorschandt

On 1 Aug 2003 12:21:47 -0700, [email hidden] (Jeff Wills) posted:

Quoted message said:

"Moosh:]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

As this will be multiplying a 15 speed deraileur, that will give me 60 ratios to play with.
Plenty to keep my tiny brain amused 🙂

You're combining a 15 speed derailleur system with a 3 speed internal hub?

No, the FW is a four speed. (FW = Four Wide)

Quoted message said:

That's 45 speeds- and it's a tough proposition. The parts are meant to be combined- you'll have to
figure out how to fit the cogs on the hub, extend the axle, figure out how to shift the hub, etc.
etc. It's not impossible- but other setups like this have been built by very experienced bike
mechanics. It's not something I'd attempt on my first trike.

I'm using and intermediate shaft.

On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 20:28:24 GMT, Bill Hamilton <[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Jeff Wills) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Moosh:]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

As this will be multiplying a 15 speed deraileur, that will give me 60 ratios to play with.
Plenty to keep my tiny brain amused 🙂

You're combining a 15 speed derailleur system with a 3 speed internal hub? That's 45 speeds- and
it's a tough proposition. The parts are meant to be combined- you'll have to figure out how to
fit the cogs on the hub, extend the axle, figure out how to shift the hub, etc. etc. It's not
impossible- but other setups like this have been built by very experienced bike mechanics. It's
not something I'd attempt on my first trike.

Though it should be fairly easy using a mid-drive setup. Get a 7-speed freewheel, replace the
largest cog with a small chainring (or just leave
it). Align that gear with the cog on the 3-speed wheel, and mount a derailleur for the bottom five
gears for the crank/mid-drive chain. Hardest part would be converting the freewheel to spin both
directions and then mounting it to the frame securely.

Biggest concern is to mount the mid-drive so that it doesn't contact the ground; without the
protection of the wheel, your derailleur could easily strike the ground and mess up your day
real quick.

Thanks for the helpful advice, but I will be driving one of the front wheels of a rear-steer
tadpole. I will be using an intermediate shaft ahead or the driven front wheel, (the one with the
four speed hub), and this will have one cog on one end to drive the wheel, and a rear derailleur
cluster on the other driven by the 3-chain-wheel pedal set sticking out the front as per normal.

Quoted message said:

-Bill Hamilton hasn't been planning a trike for his next project, nosiree he hasn't. 🙂

Fun 🙂

On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 04:52:24 -0500, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

Bill Hamilton said:

... Biggest concern is to mount the mid-drive so that it doesn't contact the ground; without the
protection of the wheel, your derailleur could easily strike the ground and mess up your day
real quick.

-Bill Hamilton hasn't been planning a trike for his next project, nosiree he hasn't. 🙂

Bill,

Since you are not planning to build a trike with a mid-drive, I will not suggest using rear
suspension and making the mid-drive concentric with the suspension pivot to eliminate pogo. [1]

[1] This works so well I can not understand why it has not been adopted by recumbent designers - I
guess they have not been lucky enough to ride a Dragonflyer.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Suspension seems to me a luxury when you have suspension qualities in the tyres, seat and frame to a
small extent. And I'm not planning on off-bitumen.

Moosh: said:

Suspension seems to me a luxury when you have suspension qualities in the tyres, seat and frame to
a small extent. And I'm not planning on off-bitumen.

With three wheel tracks instead of one, it is very hard to avoid bumps and potholes on a trike. With
rear suspension it is only necessary to straddle such pavement deformities with the front wheels.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

"Moosh:]" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Suspension seems to me a luxury when you have suspension qualities in the tyres, seat and frame to
a small extent. And I'm not planning on off-bitumen.

A car has "suspension qualities" in the tires, frame and seat as well. I certainly wouldn't want to
ride in one that doesn't have shocks. At least not on the roads around here.

-Bill Hamilton

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 07:55:37 -0500, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

Moosh: said:

Suspension seems to me a luxury when you have suspension qualities in the tyres, seat and frame
to a small extent. And I'm not planning on off-bitumen.

With three wheel tracks instead of one, it is very hard to avoid bumps and potholes on a
trike. With rear suspension it is only necessary to straddle such pavement deformities with
the front wheels.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

I agree, but for an old coot like me who won't be travelling very fast, on well-maintained cycle
paths, when I see a problem I can stop and lift the bloody bike over it if necessary.

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 13:02:57 GMT, Bill Hamilton <[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

"Moosh:]" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Suspension seems to me a luxury when you have suspension qualities in the tyres, seat and frame
to a small extent. And I'm not planning on off-bitumen.

A car has "suspension qualities" in the tires, frame and seat as well. I certainly wouldn't want to
ride in one that doesn't have shocks. At least not on the roads around here.

But then four wheels are not always in contact with terra firma, whereas three always can be. And of
course cars will travel habitually much faster than I will.

The springs absorb the hit, the shocks control the rebound of the spring so you don't bounce. One
without the other doesn't make a good suspension. "Bill Hamilton" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Moosh:]" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Suspension seems to me a luxury when you have suspension qualities in the tyres, seat and frame
to a small extent. And I'm not planning on off-bitumen.

A car has "suspension qualities" in the tires, frame and seat as well. I certainly wouldn't want
to ride in one that doesn't have shocks. At least not on the roads around here.

-Bill Hamilton