Supersets or Drop sets?

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

Both are time saving if you are in a hurry/short on time,
but which is more beneficial?

I know that drop sets really make me sore...... ;-)

What's a drop set?
--
-Larry

"The troll hasn't been born who can troll us worse than we troll
ourselves." Hugh Beyer

In article <[email hidden]>,

Larry Hodges said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

Both are time saving if you are in a hurry/short on time,
but which is more beneficial?

I know that drop sets really make me sore...... ;-)

What's a drop set?

Hi Larry!

A drop set is when you start with a fairly high weight, (one you can
lift for 10 to 12 reps), lift to failure, then drop 10 lbs. off, keep on
going, drop another 10 lbs. and keep on going..... No rest, no breaks.
You lift to failure, reduce the weight, then keep going until you run
out of stack at 10 lbs.

Free weights are pretty much out for this. It works best with machines
with weight stacks and a pin. Speed in reducing the weight to continue
is important. You CAN use free weights if you have enough 5 lb. plates
and someone to remove them for you.

Yesterday I did these for upper back using a reverse peck-dec machine.
You only go thru the stack once and it really trashes the muscle group.

My upper back, triceps and rear delts are killing me. <G>
But, that's ok.......
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Larry Hodges said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

Both are time saving if you are in a hurry/short on time,
but which is more beneficial?

I know that drop sets really make me sore...... ;-)

What's a drop set?

Hi Larry!

A drop set is when you start with a fairly high weight, (one you can
lift for 10 to 12 reps), lift to failure, then drop 10 lbs. off, keep
on going, drop another 10 lbs. and keep on going..... No rest, no
breaks. You lift to failure, reduce the weight, then keep going until
you run out of stack at 10 lbs.

Ahh. I've done these, but my gym nomenclature used a different term.
But...I don't remember what that was. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Free weights are pretty much out for this. It works best with machines
with weight stacks and a pin. Speed in reducing the weight to continue
is important. You CAN use free weights if you have enough 5 lb.
plates and someone to remove them for you.

Yesterday I did these for upper back using a reverse peck-dec machine.
You only go thru the stack once and it really trashes the muscle
group.

My upper back, triceps and rear delts are killing me. <G>
But, that's ok.......

I haven't done them for a year or so, but the only exercise I used them were
preacher curls on the BodyMasters machine. Maybe it's time to go back to
that for awhile.

What I've found effective for bicep are one arm preacher curls on the HS
machine. One arm for two reasons. First, I can focus on that arm and line
up the movement so my arm comes straight up. Second, I can use the free arm
to assist. I'll put on more weight than I can normally do, so that I can
get 4-5 reps without assistance. Then for reps 6-8, or even 10, I'll use
the other arm to assist in raising the weight, then release and do negatives
with the full weight on the way down. This will make you sore and it seems
to have increased both strength and hypertrophy for me.
--
-Larry

"The troll hasn't been born who can troll us worse than we troll
ourselves." Hugh Beyer

Om,
I used to like doing drop sets as you call them. We call them
burnouts where I'm from. I kind of think of drop sets and supersets as
very different things (apples and oranges) since a superset is just
alternating different muscle groups instead of resting while a drop
sets really taxes one muscle group. I use drop sets sometimes to
hopefully shock a muscle group into gaining more strength. I don't
usually use supersets since I feel that I am not getting as intense
work on either muscle group. So if I was really crunched for time I
would do drop sets of the different exercises rather than supersets. I
haven't been scientific to lead to my opinion of this but I agree with
you that I really feel it when I have done some hard drop sets.

James

Drop sets make me pee me pants.
Supersets make me bored, so bored....

In article <[email hidden]>,

Larry Hodges said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Larry Hodges said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> Both are time saving if you are in a hurry/short on time,
> but which is more beneficial?
>
> I know that drop sets really make me sore...... ;-)

What's a drop set?

Hi Larry!

A drop set is when you start with a fairly high weight, (one you can
lift for 10 to 12 reps), lift to failure, then drop 10 lbs. off, keep
on going, drop another 10 lbs. and keep on going..... No rest, no
breaks. You lift to failure, reduce the weight, then keep going until
you run out of stack at 10 lbs.

Ahh. I've done these, but my gym nomenclature used a different term.
But...I don't remember what that was. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Free weights are pretty much out for this. It works best with machines
with weight stacks and a pin. Speed in reducing the weight to continue
is important. You CAN use free weights if you have enough 5 lb.
plates and someone to remove them for you.

Yesterday I did these for upper back using a reverse peck-dec machine.
You only go thru the stack once and it really trashes the muscle
group.

My upper back, triceps and rear delts are killing me. <G>
But, that's ok.......

I haven't done them for a year or so, but the only exercise I used them were
preacher curls on the BodyMasters machine. Maybe it's time to go back to
that for awhile.

I don't do these on a fixed schedule, just once in awhile.
I understand it's more of a "shock" technique and not one to be used
routinely.

I was short on time yesterday and it DOES speed things up.

Quoted message said:

What I've found effective for bicep are one arm preacher curls on the HS
machine. One arm for two reasons. First, I can focus on that arm and line
up the movement so my arm comes straight up. Second, I can use the free arm
to assist. I'll put on more weight than I can normally do, so that I can
get 4-5 reps without assistance. Then for reps 6-8, or even 10, I'll use
the other arm to assist in raising the weight, then release and do negatives
with the full weight on the way down. This will make you sore and it seems
to have increased both strength and hypertrophy for me.

That is why I do concentration curls with dumbells.
When I'm doing biceps, I do preacher curls first (both arms, 4 sets to
failure) then hop over to the dumbell benches and do 3 sets per arm of
dumbell concentration curls.

What's nice about that is, if you want to do forced reps, you can "spot
yourself" since you are only working one arm at a time.

And yeah, it makes you sore.

But that's ok......
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

JamesG said:

Om,
I used to like doing drop sets as you call them. We call them
burnouts where I'm from. I kind of think of drop sets and supersets as
very different things (apples and oranges) since a superset is just
alternating different muscle groups instead of resting while a drop
sets really taxes one muscle group. I use drop sets sometimes to
hopefully shock a muscle group into gaining more strength.

I've read that that is the way to use them.
They are not meant for routine work.

But neither are supersets.

Quoted message said:

I don't
usually use supersets since I feel that I am not getting as intense
work on either muscle group. So if I was really crunched for time I
would do drop sets of the different exercises rather than supersets. I
haven't been scientific to lead to my opinion of this but I agree with
you that I really feel it when I have done some hard drop sets.

James

I wonder...
I understand supersets work the same _basic_ muscle group. You go back
and forth between two machines/stations and do different moves for the
same muscle group?

For example, cable tricep extensions and machine overhead tricep
extentions, or shrugs and military press.

Am I misunderstanding the concept?
Since there is no break, you just go back and forth, it can really
stress a body part.

But I agree, they are not quite the same intensity IMHO as drop sets.

I try to do 2 or 3 different excercizes per body part anyway.
A good example is chest:

Incline bench, Flat bench, followed up by Pec Dec.

For back, reverse pec dec, wide grip cable pulldowns, then T-bar rows

Unless I do a drop set. ;-)
Then I only do two and drop set only on the first one!

Quoted message said:

--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

JamesG said:

Om,
I used to like doing drop sets as you call them. We call them
burnouts where I'm from. I kind of think of drop sets and supersets as
very different things (apples and oranges) since a superset is just
alternating different muscle groups instead of resting while a drop
sets really taxes one muscle group. I use drop sets sometimes to
hopefully shock a muscle group into gaining more strength.

I've read that that is the way to use them.
They are not meant for routine work.

But neither are supersets.

Quoted message said:

I don't
usually use supersets since I feel that I am not getting as intense
work on either muscle group. So if I was really crunched for time I
would do drop sets of the different exercises rather than supersets. I
haven't been scientific to lead to my opinion of this but I agree with
you that I really feel it when I have done some hard drop sets.

James

I wonder...
I understand supersets work the same _basic_ muscle group. You go back
and forth between two machines/stations and do different moves for the
same muscle group?

Supersets actually means using more than one exercise and alternating
back and forth as one set. Originally they were often done with
antogonists - bench and row, for example. During the HIT heyday of the
late 60's and 70's the idea of 'pre-exhaust' where you would do an
isolation movement followed by a compound movement became popular. So
dumbbell flys followed by bench press, for example.

Then some confusion started in and pre-exhaust was also sometimes called
supersets. There are also 'giant sets'(more than two movements) and, of
course, Periphial Heart Action (PHA) where you would do giant sets for
muscle groups distal from each other.

Supersets can be done for routine work. Pre-exhaust is a special
technique some bodybuilders use.

--
Keith

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

JamesG said:

Om,
I used to like doing drop sets as you call them. We call them
burnouts where I'm from. I kind of think of drop sets and supersets as
very different things (apples and oranges) since a superset is just
alternating different muscle groups instead of resting while a drop
sets really taxes one muscle group. I use drop sets sometimes to
hopefully shock a muscle group into gaining more strength.

I've read that that is the way to use them.
They are not meant for routine work.

But neither are supersets.

Quoted message said:

I don't
usually use supersets since I feel that I am not getting as intense
work on either muscle group. So if I was really crunched for time I
would do drop sets of the different exercises rather than supersets. I
haven't been scientific to lead to my opinion of this but I agree with
you that I really feel it when I have done some hard drop sets.

James

I wonder...
I understand supersets work the same _basic_ muscle group. You go back
and forth between two machines/stations and do different moves for the
same muscle group?

Supersets actually means using more than one exercise and alternating
back and forth as one set. Originally they were often done with
antogonists - bench and row, for example. During the HIT heyday of the
late 60's and 70's the idea of 'pre-exhaust' where you would do an
isolation movement followed by a compound movement became popular. So
dumbbell flys followed by bench press, for example.

Then some confusion started in and pre-exhaust was also sometimes called
supersets. There are also 'giant sets'(more than two movements) and, of
course, Periphial Heart Action (PHA) where you would do giant sets for
muscle groups distal from each other.

Supersets can be done for routine work. Pre-exhaust is a special
technique some bodybuilders use.

I see.
I'd read about pre-exhaust and used to use it somewhat, but not anymore.
I just work antagonists on the same day. Teusday, I did deadlifts, then
biceps and triceps. Wednesday, I did back and chest. Today was leg day.

I seem to be making better strength gains this way. Gives the muscle
groups longer to heal. Friday's I do whatever I feel like doing, and
really try to trash the abs.
Sat. Sun. and Mon. are cardio only. It's due to my work schedule and the
gym hours.

How do you feel about drop sets? I personally like them, but don't use
them routinely for obvious reasons!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"JamesG" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Om,
> I used to like doing drop sets as you call them. We call them
> burnouts where I'm from. I kind of think of drop sets and supersets as
> very different things (apples and oranges) since a superset is just
> alternating different muscle groups instead of resting while a drop
> sets really taxes one muscle group. I use drop sets sometimes to
> hopefully shock a muscle group into gaining more strength.

I've read that that is the way to use them.
They are not meant for routine work.

But neither are supersets.

> I don't
> usually use supersets since I feel that I am not getting as intense
> work on either muscle group. So if I was really crunched for time I
> would do drop sets of the different exercises rather than supersets. I
> haven't been scientific to lead to my opinion of this but I agree with
> you that I really feel it when I have done some hard drop sets.
>
> James

I wonder...
I understand supersets work the same _basic_ muscle group. You go back
and forth between two machines/stations and do different moves for the
same muscle group?

Supersets actually means using more than one exercise and alternating
back and forth as one set. Originally they were often done with
antogonists - bench and row, for example. During the HIT heyday of the
late 60's and 70's the idea of 'pre-exhaust' where you would do an
isolation movement followed by a compound movement became popular. So
dumbbell flys followed by bench press, for example.

Then some confusion started in and pre-exhaust was also sometimes called
supersets. There are also 'giant sets'(more than two movements) and, of
course, Periphial Heart Action (PHA) where you would do giant sets for
muscle groups distal from each other.

Supersets can be done for routine work. Pre-exhaust is a special
technique some bodybuilders use.

I see.
I'd read about pre-exhaust and used to use it somewhat, but not anymore.
I just work antagonists on the same day. Teusday, I did deadlifts, then
biceps and triceps. Wednesday, I did back and chest. Today was leg day.

I seem to be making better strength gains this way. Gives the muscle
groups longer to heal. Friday's I do whatever I feel like doing, and
really try to trash the abs.
Sat. Sun. and Mon. are cardio only. It's due to my work schedule and the
gym hours.

How do you feel about drop sets? I personally like them, but don't use
them routinely for obvious reasons!

I'm more concerned with neural aspects of training and less concerned
with hypertrophy. Drop sets (and any methods going to failure) tend to
screw up neural inputs. Good for hypertrophy - bad for strength. That is
generalizing, as they can be useful for strength as long as neural
issues are trained. But since I have no desire for hypertrophy I don't
do them.

Allow adequate recovery time if you use these types of techniques -
about all I can suggest.

--
Keith

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email hidden]> wrote:

> In article <[email hidden]>,
> "JamesG" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> > Om,
> > I used to like doing drop sets as you call them. We call them
> > burnouts where I'm from. I kind of think of drop sets and supersets
> > as
> > very different things (apples and oranges) since a superset is just
> > alternating different muscle groups instead of resting while a drop
> > sets really taxes one muscle group. I use drop sets sometimes to
> > hopefully shock a muscle group into gaining more strength.
>
> I've read that that is the way to use them.
> They are not meant for routine work.
>
> But neither are supersets.
>
> > I don't
> > usually use supersets since I feel that I am not getting as intense
> > work on either muscle group. So if I was really crunched for time I
> > would do drop sets of the different exercises rather than supersets.
> > I
> > haven't been scientific to lead to my opinion of this but I agree
> > with
> > you that I really feel it when I have done some hard drop sets.
> >
> > James
>
> I wonder...
> I understand supersets work the same _basic_ muscle group. You go back
> and forth between two machines/stations and do different moves for the
> same muscle group?

Supersets actually means using more than one exercise and alternating
back and forth as one set. Originally they were often done with
antogonists - bench and row, for example. During the HIT heyday of the
late 60's and 70's the idea of 'pre-exhaust' where you would do an
isolation movement followed by a compound movement became popular. So
dumbbell flys followed by bench press, for example.

Then some confusion started in and pre-exhaust was also sometimes called
supersets. There are also 'giant sets'(more than two movements) and, of
course, Periphial Heart Action (PHA) where you would do giant sets for
muscle groups distal from each other.

Supersets can be done for routine work. Pre-exhaust is a special
technique some bodybuilders use.

I see.
I'd read about pre-exhaust and used to use it somewhat, but not anymore.
I just work antagonists on the same day. Teusday, I did deadlifts, then
biceps and triceps. Wednesday, I did back and chest. Today was leg day.

I seem to be making better strength gains this way. Gives the muscle
groups longer to heal. Friday's I do whatever I feel like doing, and
really try to trash the abs.
Sat. Sun. and Mon. are cardio only. It's due to my work schedule and the
gym hours.

How do you feel about drop sets? I personally like them, but don't use
them routinely for obvious reasons!

I'm more concerned with neural aspects of training and less concerned
with hypertrophy. Drop sets (and any methods going to failure) tend to
screw up neural inputs. Good for hypertrophy - bad for strength. That is
generalizing, as they can be useful for strength as long as neural
issues are trained. But since I have no desire for hypertrophy I don't
do them.

Allow adequate recovery time if you use these types of techniques -
about all I can suggest.

I fully agree with that. ;-)

I won't be doing any real upper body work again until next Teusday...
maybe more chest, but certainly not back. Nor triceps.
There's DOMS and then there is DOMS to the point where one is tempted to
take NSAID's...... But I won't.

I've not done drop sets in ages. I'd almost forgotten just how well it
trashes muscle groups.

Teach me to rush things. <lol>
I only did it because I was pressed for time and did not want to shirk.

It seemed like a good idea at the time...

I'm actually working for strength and fat burn.
I'm not overly concerned about hypertrophy at this point.

I'm too old for that.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

Larry said:

What I've found effective for bicep are one arm preacher curls on the HS
machine. One arm for two reasons. First, I can focus on that arm and line
up the movement so my arm comes straight up. Second, I can use the free arm
to assist. I'll put on more weight than I can normally do, so that I can
get 4-5 reps without assistance. Then for reps 6-8, or even 10, I'll use
the other arm to assist in raising the weight, then release and do negatives
with the full weight on the way down. This will make you sore and it seems
to have increased both strength and hypertrophy for me.

That is why I do concentration curls with dumbells. When I'm doing
biceps, I do preacher curls first (both arms, 4 sets to failure)
then hop over to the dumbell benches and do 3 sets per arm of
dumbell concentration curls.

I'd only go to failure if I'm to do a single set of a particular
exercise, e.g. 40 pullups and go home :-) Otherwise I always do
supersets of two or more exercises. It does save time. Also, why a Joe
like you or me would need isolation exercises like curls anyway? I
don't do any of that stuff.

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

For example, cable tricep extensions and machine overhead tricep
extentions [...]
Incline bench, Flat bench, followed up by Pec Dec.

If I were me (and I think I am) I would drop "pec dec", "tricep
extensions" and do incline and flat on different days, e.g. (possibly
supersetting)

Day X: incline bench and pullups
Day Y: flat bench and rows

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Hobbes <[email hidden]> wrote:

> In article <[email hidden]>,
> OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> > In article <[email hidden]>,
> > "JamesG" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >
> > > Om,
> > > I used to like doing drop sets as you call them. We call them
> > > burnouts where I'm from. I kind of think of drop sets and
> > > supersets
> > > as
> > > very different things (apples and oranges) since a superset is just
> > > alternating different muscle groups instead of resting while a drop
> > > sets really taxes one muscle group. I use drop sets sometimes to
> > > hopefully shock a muscle group into gaining more strength.
> >
> > I've read that that is the way to use them.
> > They are not meant for routine work.
> >
> > But neither are supersets.
> >
> > > I don't
> > > usually use supersets since I feel that I am not getting as intense
> > > work on either muscle group. So if I was really crunched for time
> > > I
> > > would do drop sets of the different exercises rather than
> > > supersets.
> > > I
> > > haven't been scientific to lead to my opinion of this but I agree
> > > with
> > > you that I really feel it when I have done some hard drop sets.
> > >
> > > James
> >
> > I wonder...
> > I understand supersets work the same _basic_ muscle group. You go
> > back
> > and forth between two machines/stations and do different moves for
> > the
> > same muscle group?
>
> Supersets actually means using more than one exercise and alternating
> back and forth as one set. Originally they were often done with
> antogonists - bench and row, for example. During the HIT heyday of the
> late 60's and 70's the idea of 'pre-exhaust' where you would do an
> isolation movement followed by a compound movement became popular. So
> dumbbell flys followed by bench press, for example.
>
> Then some confusion started in and pre-exhaust was also sometimes
> called
> supersets. There are also 'giant sets'(more than two movements) and, of
> course, Periphial Heart Action (PHA) where you would do giant sets for
> muscle groups distal from each other.
>
> Supersets can be done for routine work. Pre-exhaust is a special
> technique some bodybuilders use.

I see.
I'd read about pre-exhaust and used to use it somewhat, but not anymore.
I just work antagonists on the same day. Teusday, I did deadlifts, then
biceps and triceps. Wednesday, I did back and chest. Today was leg day.

I seem to be making better strength gains this way. Gives the muscle
groups longer to heal. Friday's I do whatever I feel like doing, and
really try to trash the abs.
Sat. Sun. and Mon. are cardio only. It's due to my work schedule and the
gym hours.

How do you feel about drop sets? I personally like them, but don't use
them routinely for obvious reasons!

I'm more concerned with neural aspects of training and less concerned
with hypertrophy. Drop sets (and any methods going to failure) tend to
screw up neural inputs. Good for hypertrophy - bad for strength. That is
generalizing, as they can be useful for strength as long as neural
issues are trained. But since I have no desire for hypertrophy I don't
do them.

Allow adequate recovery time if you use these types of techniques -
about all I can suggest.

I fully agree with that. ;-)

I won't be doing any real upper body work again until next Teusday...
maybe more chest, but certainly not back. Nor triceps.
There's DOMS and then there is DOMS to the point where one is tempted to
take NSAID's...... But I won't.

I've not done drop sets in ages. I'd almost forgotten just how well it
trashes muscle groups.

Teach me to rush things. <lol>
I only did it because I was pressed for time and did not want to shirk.

It seemed like a good idea at the time...

I'm actually working for strength and fat burn.
I'm not overly concerned about hypertrophy at this point.

I'm too old for that.

Dood.

http://www.cbass.com/Furey.htm

--
Keith

In article <[email hidden]>,

DZ said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

Larry said:

What I've found effective for bicep are one arm preacher curls on the HS
machine. One arm for two reasons. First, I can focus on that arm and
line
up the movement so my arm comes straight up. Second, I can use the free
arm
to assist. I'll put on more weight than I can normally do, so that I can
get 4-5 reps without assistance. Then for reps 6-8, or even 10, I'll use
the other arm to assist in raising the weight, then release and do
negatives
with the full weight on the way down. This will make you sore and it
seems
to have increased both strength and hypertrophy for me.

That is why I do concentration curls with dumbells. When I'm doing
biceps, I do preacher curls first (both arms, 4 sets to failure)
then hop over to the dumbell benches and do 3 sets per arm of
dumbell concentration curls.

I'd only go to failure if I'm to do a single set of a particular
exercise, e.g. 40 pullups and go home :-) Otherwise I always do
supersets of two or more exercises. It does save time. Also, why a Joe
like you or me would need isolation exercises like curls anyway? I
don't do any of that stuff.

Well, I know this may sound odd, but my forearms (probably due to
increased grip strength from heavy deadlifting) were getting out of
proportion. While you normally get _plenty_ of arm work from doing upper
body work, I found it necessary to do some bicep and tricep work once
per week to bring back some symmetry. :-)

I always lift to failure where practical... It's not always safe
depending on what you are doing IMHO.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

DZ said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

For example, cable tricep extensions and machine overhead tricep
extentions [...]
Incline bench, Flat bench, followed up by Pec Dec.

If I were me (and I think I am) I would drop "pec dec", "tricep
extensions" and do incline and flat on different days, e.g. (possibly
supersetting)

Day X: incline bench and pullups
Day Y: flat bench and rows

Yeah, there seems to be some confusion on exactly what supersetting
is.....

I prefer to work back and chest on the same day, but YMMV.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email hidden]> wrote:

> In article <[email hidden]>,
> Hobbes <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> > In article <[email hidden]>,
> > OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <[email hidden]>,
> > > "JamesG" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Om,
> > > > I used to like doing drop sets as you call them. We call them
> > > > burnouts where I'm from. I kind of think of drop sets and
> > > > supersets
> > > > as
> > > > very different things (apples and oranges) since a superset is
> > > > just
> > > > alternating different muscle groups instead of resting while a
> > > > drop
> > > > sets really taxes one muscle group. I use drop sets sometimes to
> > > > hopefully shock a muscle group into gaining more strength.
> > >
> > > I've read that that is the way to use them.
> > > They are not meant for routine work.
> > >
> > > But neither are supersets.
> > >
> > > > I don't
> > > > usually use supersets since I feel that I am not getting as
> > > > intense
> > > > work on either muscle group. So if I was really crunched for
> > > > time
> > > > I
> > > > would do drop sets of the different exercises rather than
> > > > supersets.
> > > > I
> > > > haven't been scientific to lead to my opinion of this but I agree
> > > > with
> > > > you that I really feel it when I have done some hard drop sets.
> > > >
> > > > James
> > >
> > > I wonder...
> > > I understand supersets work the same _basic_ muscle group. You go
> > > back
> > > and forth between two machines/stations and do different moves for
> > > the
> > > same muscle group?
> >
> > Supersets actually means using more than one exercise and alternating
> > back and forth as one set. Originally they were often done with
> > antogonists - bench and row, for example. During the HIT heyday of
> > the
> > late 60's and 70's the idea of 'pre-exhaust' where you would do an
> > isolation movement followed by a compound movement became popular. So
> > dumbbell flys followed by bench press, for example.
> >
> > Then some confusion started in and pre-exhaust was also sometimes
> > called
> > supersets. There are also 'giant sets'(more than two movements) and,
> > of
> > course, Periphial Heart Action (PHA) where you would do giant sets
> > for
> > muscle groups distal from each other.
> >
> > Supersets can be done for routine work. Pre-exhaust is a special
> > technique some bodybuilders use.
>
> I see.
> I'd read about pre-exhaust and used to use it somewhat, but not
> anymore.
> I just work antagonists on the same day. Teusday, I did deadlifts, then
> biceps and triceps. Wednesday, I did back and chest. Today was leg day.
>
> I seem to be making better strength gains this way. Gives the muscle
> groups longer to heal. Friday's I do whatever I feel like doing, and
> really try to trash the abs.
> Sat. Sun. and Mon. are cardio only. It's due to my work schedule and
> the
> gym hours.
>
> How do you feel about drop sets? I personally like them, but don't use
> them routinely for obvious reasons!

I'm more concerned with neural aspects of training and less concerned
with hypertrophy. Drop sets (and any methods going to failure) tend to
screw up neural inputs. Good for hypertrophy - bad for strength. That is
generalizing, as they can be useful for strength as long as neural
issues are trained. But since I have no desire for hypertrophy I don't
do them.

Allow adequate recovery time if you use these types of techniques -
about all I can suggest.

I fully agree with that. ;-)

I won't be doing any real upper body work again until next Teusday...
maybe more chest, but certainly not back. Nor triceps.
There's DOMS and then there is DOMS to the point where one is tempted to
take NSAID's...... But I won't.

I've not done drop sets in ages. I'd almost forgotten just how well it
trashes muscle groups.

Teach me to rush things. <lol>
I only did it because I was pressed for time and did not want to shirk.

It seemed like a good idea at the time...

I'm actually working for strength and fat burn.
I'm not overly concerned about hypertrophy at this point.

I'm too old for that.

Dood.

http://www.cbass.com/Furey.htm

That Hindu Pushup looks a lot like a yoga exercise!

Cool site, thanks!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

DZ said:

I'd only go to failure if I'm to do a single set of a particular
exercise, e.g. 40 pullups and go home :-) Otherwise I always do
supersets of two or more exercises. It does save time. Also, why a Joe
like you or me would need isolation exercises like curls anyway? I
don't do any of that stuff.

Well, I know this may sound odd, but my forearms (probably due to
increased grip strength from heavy deadlifting) were getting out of
proportion. While you normally get _plenty_ of arm work from doing upper
body work, I found it necessary to do some bicep and tricep work once
per week to bring back some symmetry. :-)

I just don't think bi/tri isolation exercises are that effective. It's
true that people with large arms tend to do direct work but you'd be
hard pressed to find too many people who "naturally" developed arms
solely with curls and extensions. So for myself I concluded that
(weighted) chins/dips is all I need. Any more arm circumference and it
would start impeding my career.

Quoted message said:

I always lift to failure where practical... It's not always safe
depending on what you are doing IMHO.

My reason to stay away from failure is that it allows higher total
load. Using pullups example again I can either do 40 and go home, or
do 8 pullups, 8 dips, and repeat these two for 30-40 min. It just
feels a lot different by the end of workout. Like I just unloaded a
turnip truck :-)

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

DZ said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

For example, cable tricep extensions and machine overhead tricep
extentions [...]
Incline bench, Flat bench, followed up by Pec Dec.

If I were me (and I think I am) I would drop "pec dec", "tricep
extensions" and do incline and flat on different days, e.g. (possibly
supersetting)

Day X: incline bench and pullups
Day Y: flat bench and rows

Yeah, there seems to be some confusion on exactly what supersetting
is.....

By that I mean "alternating". I'm not a big fan of hitting a muscle
group till the filaments ain't contracting. So if I were to do 3
different chest exercises they'd be allocated to three different days.