perpeteum

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by CHanson
The makers of Hammergel has now come out with Perpeteum. I have used this product and the only downfall is the amount of water you need to cosume to make this product effective. Like to know other opinions.

How much water do you have to take with it? It doesn't appear to say.

As an aside i'm very worried by some of the claims made on the Hammergel site and with this product. There's definitely a stretching of the truth involved, and some rubbish.

For e.g., with perpeteum, which contains tribasic sodium phosphate. it says that it buffers lactate and extends endurance. Whilst, sodium phosphate has been shown to increase power output [1], there's not enough in the serving provided, and even if there was there's no evidence to show that acute phosphate loading works (it doesn't). The effects of a chronic load (e.g., four to five days) tends to work for ~ 10 days.

There's also snake oil on the site (e.g., ATP 100). Buyer beware.

[1]Stern, R. A., Folland, J., Brickley, G. (2001, A). Sodium phosphate loading can improve laboratory 10-mile cycling performance in trained cyclists. Canadian Journal of Physiology.

Ric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by ricstern
How much water do you have to take with it? It doesn't appear to say.

As an aside i'm very worried by some of the claims made on the Hammergel site and with this product. There's definitely a stretching of the truth involved, and some rubbish.

For e.g., with perpeteum, which contains tribasic sodium phosphate. it says that it buffers lactate and extends endurance. Whilst, sodium phosphate has been shown to increase power output [1], there's not enough in the serving provided, and even if there was there's no evidence to show that acute phosphate loading works (it doesn't). The effects of a chronic load (e.g., four to five days) tends to work for ~ 10 days.

There's also snake oil on the site (e.g., ATP 100). Buyer beware.

[1]Stern, R. A., Folland, J., Brickley, G. (2001, A). Sodium phosphate loading can improve laboratory 10-mile cycling performance in trained cyclists. Canadian Journal of Physiology.

Ric

Thanks for the reply and website. I drink about 24 ozs of water per hour while using this product sometimes more on hot days. Yet know matter how much I drink I still feel very thirsty at the end of the ride even though I think I am well hydrated. I guess I am a cyclist who will try anything that comes along that claims your performance will improve with this or that product. These days any new product has some kind of research at some kind of insititution so it is rather confusing which product really is good for you.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by CHanson
Thanks for the reply and website. I drink about 24 ozs of water per hour while using this product sometimes more on hot days. Yet know matter how much I drink I still feel very thirsty at the end of the ride even though I think I am well hydrated. I guess I am a cyclist who will try anything that comes along that claims your performance will improve with this or that product. These days any new product has some kind of research at some kind of insititution so it is rather confusing which product really is good for you.

I might be wrong, but i don't think there's any *peer reviewed* research to support perpeteum.

You can work out how much water you're loosing when biking

1) weigh yourself nude a few mins before training
2) add up the volume of all the fluid you drink during training and record the time taken
3) as soon as you get in, towel yourself dry and reweigh yourself nude
4) the difference (if any) is water weight loss (i.e., sweat losses etc)

example
pre ride nude weight = 70 kg
during ride consumed = 1.5 L
ride time = 3 hrs
post ride nude weight = 68 kg
(1 L = 1 kg)

fluid deficit = 70 - 68 = 2kg
total sweat loss = 2 + 1.5 = 3.5 kg
sweat rate = 3.5 kg / 3 hrs = 1.167 L/hr

You should ensure that the drink has plenty of electrolytes to stimulate the thirst mechanism, and help prevent hyponatraemia in susceptible people.

Ric