Cows

Lynda said:

I've only just recently found this newsgroup and hope you'll be able
to offer advice on what probably bothers hardly anyone but me!!

Common problem I suspect

Quoted message said:

I love walking, but after a couple of 'scary' incidents have become
terrifed of cows to the point where I freeze with fear if I see them
ahead and panic if I can't walk about 1/4 mile around them (very
unlikely in most cases).

I know they protect their young. I also have a dog (kept on a lead
obviously) which may make matters worse.

Yes it does, in the event on the cattle turning on the dog the advice
is to set the dog loose to fend for himself and get yourself away as
soon as possible.

Quoted message said:

Do they 'chase'? I'm fit and
my husband says I'd outrun them anyway

Doubt you would

Quoted message said:

but given I'd be frozen with
fear that doesn't sound like an option to me.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is what do you do if you have no choice
but to walk through them. What if they approach with interest,
friendly and otherwise? Should I shout? Wave my hands? Ignore them?

If they are just interested in you then walk purposefully forward but
never between them or at their rears. I hold my arms out to appear
bigger and find buzzing noises have some effect. If it comes to shove
you are not going to win.

Quoted message said:

I know it probably sounds really trivial but it's taking all the fun
out of doing some great walks to me.

I don't think cattle are a big problem but recent incidents seem to
have been with single female walkers with dogs so you must be aware
there is a bigger risk especially with calves at feet.

AJH

Lynda said:

I love walking, but after a couple of 'scary' incidents have become
terrifed of cows to the point where I freeze with fear if I see them
ahead and panic if I can't walk about 1/4 mile around them (very
unlikely in most cases).

I know they protect their young. I also have a dog (kept on a lead
obviously) which may make matters worse. Do they 'chase'? I'm fit and
my husband says I'd outrun them anyway but given I'd be frozen with
fear that doesn't sound like an option to me.

Running from them will only make them more curious. They can almost
certainly outrun you too.

Quoted message said:

I guess what I'm trying to ask is what do you do if you have no choice
but to walk through them. What if they approach with interest,
friendly and otherwise? Should I shout? Wave my hands? Ignore them?

Carry a stick (a walking pole will do :-) ) wave it in the air and
shout "cumonden!" or "goaaaaawwn!" at them. They should then move out
of your way. Cows are generally averse to people shouting at them with
sticks in their hands having learnt from experience that the farmer is
likely to give them a thwack if they don't move. I'd let the dog off
the lead when crossing cattle fields. Bovine vs canine is a battle
with one winner usually and you'd do better letting the dog retreat on
it's own rather than dragging you down with it. Besides you'll then
have both hands free to wave boldly in best farmer style.

--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Lynda said:

Quoted message said:

I love walking, but after a couple of 'scary' incidents have become
terrifed of cows to the point where I freeze with fear if I see them
ahead and panic if I can't walk about 1/4 mile around them (very
unlikely in most cases).

I know they protect their young. I also have a dog (kept on a lead
obviously) which may make matters worse.

I've learned from posts on here that many cows hate dogs (learned
behaviour, presumably), and will advance towards them, presumably in
the hope of kicking them limb from limb. It's been suggested that the
best thing is to let the dog off its lead if cows begin to approach
you, so that you don't get trampled in the rush.

I understand your fear, incidentally. I was brought up not to fear
cows, but I've learned to be wary over the years. I've climbed walls
and taken detours in the past to avoid them, but these days I try to
take a lot of deep breaths, give them a hard stare and continue
through the middle. So far I've remained in once piece...

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."
g.w.AT[guessthisbit].com
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/

"Lynda" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone,

I've only just recently found this newsgroup and hope you'll be able
to offer advice on what probably bothers hardly anyone but me!!

I love walking, but after a couple of 'scary' incidents have become
terrifed of cows to the point where I freeze with fear if I see them
ahead and panic if I can't walk about 1/4 mile around them (very
unlikely in most cases).

I know they protect their young. I also have a dog (kept on a lead
obviously) which may make matters worse. Do they 'chase'? I'm fit and
my husband says I'd outrun them anyway but given I'd be frozen with
fear that doesn't sound like an option to me.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is what do you do if you have no choice
but to walk through them. What if they approach with interest,
friendly and otherwise? Should I shout? Wave my hands? Ignore them?

I know it probably sounds really trivial but it's taking all the fun
out of doing some great walks to me.

Thanks,

Lynda

Sorry, I don't really have advise. However, I recently climbed Linton Hill
(Scottish Borders Marilyn) and to follow the track, I had the go through a
field of cows who started to move towards me. There was no other way round.
The other problem was escape, the whole wall had an electric fence
surrounding it. Once through, I made the top (the climb was very very easy
stroll), and had the go back the same way. Unfortunately, the cows had cut
off the main path, so I had to skirt around the opposite side of the field,
hoping the cows hadn't blocked the lower gate. Luckily only 2 cows were
there, but they stood their ground, watching me. I must admit I was a bit
scared as there was young in the herd.

Another time was in the ELD when a bull was serving a cow on a road. I had
to climb over a few walls to avoid.

And again in the ELD, at High Whether Howe, a herd (20+) of wild (I think)
cattle was running along the crest. I've never seen anything like it
before.

Jhimmy

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 15:29:23 GMT, Lynda <[email hidden]> wrote:

| Hi everyone,
|
| I've only just recently found this newsgroup and hope you'll be able
| to offer advice on what probably bothers hardly anyone but me!!
|
| I love walking, but after a couple of 'scary' incidents have become
| terrifed of cows to the point where I freeze with fear if I see them
| ahead and panic if I can't walk about 1/4 mile around them (very
| unlikely in most cases).
|
| I know they protect their young. I also have a dog (kept on a lead
| obviously) which may make matters worse. Do they 'chase'? I'm fit and
| my husband says I'd outrun them anyway but given I'd be frozen with
| fear that doesn't sound like an option to me.
|
| I guess what I'm trying to ask is what do you do if you have no choice
| but to walk through them. What if they approach with interest,
| friendly and otherwise? Should I shout? Wave my hands? Ignore them?
|
| I know it probably sounds really trivial but it's taking all the fun
| out of doing some great walks to me.

Carry a stick or anything long and thin, a walking pole will do.
They have been bred for 6000 years to respect a person with a stick.
Walk straight at them and make like you are a *bigger* *better* cow than
the lot of them, they will move out of the way. If you want them to move
left put the stick out on the right, or vica verca. You do not need to
hit them, just look as if you may. They have been bred for 6000 years to
be thick as two short planks.

A group of cows always congregate on the path I use for my afternoon
stroll. I get plenty of practice in moving them.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
"Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*.
"Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*.

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]>
said
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Carry a stick or anything long and thin, a walking pole will do.
They have been bred for 6000 years to respect a person with a stick.
Walk straight at them and make like you are a *bigger* *better* cow than
the lot of them, they will move out of the way. If you want them to move
left put the stick out on the right, or vica verca. You do not need to
hit them, just look as if you may. They have been bred for 6000 years to
be thick as two short planks.

A group of cows always congregate on the path I use for my afternoon
stroll. I get plenty of practice in moving them.

That works fine for a solo walker, but having a dog along is potential
cause for concern. Cows have spent millions of years learning that the
best thing to do with a 'wolf' is stomp it before the rest show up.

Cattle herding dogs (usually in pairs, or more) manage fine, because
your basic cow really =is= thick, and they can run rings around it.
Domestic dogs do stupid things like picking a fight and then involving
their owner in the dispute (the owner being 'pack leader' & all).

Staying out of fields with cows/calves in if you have a dog is a great
idea, especially if the dog/cows are of unknown disposition when mixed.
If you have to go in, keep the dog on a short leash, but be ready to
send it haring away if the cows make for it in unfriendly fashion. If
it's going to hide behind you instead of bolting for cover (a fit dog
=can= outrun a cow - you can't) don't be in the field with it.

As someone said elsewhere, a bunch of stampeding cattle (usually
yearlings - mother and new-born calves have more sense/less legs) is
pretty terrifying because they don't know they can't stop. They'll run
downhill and lose their footing all over you, they'll run through
hedges, through wire fences, and all sorts, if they are scared or
excited enough.
Don't get between them and anything solid, stay uphill from them if
possible, and leave (while keeping a beady eye on them).

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

"Peewiglet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've learned from posts on here that many cows hate dogs (learned
behaviour, presumably), and will advance towards them, presumably in
the hope of kicking them limb from limb. It's been suggested that the
best thing is to let the dog off its lead if cows begin to approach
you, so that you don't get trampled in the rush.

I understand your fear, incidentally. I was brought up not to fear
cows, but I've learned to be wary over the years. I've climbed walls
and taken detours in the past to avoid them, but these days I try to
take a lot of deep breaths, give them a hard stare and continue
through the middle. So far I've remained in once piece...

Best wishes,
--

My dog Alfie hates cows, he's a Staffordshire Bull Terrier and when he
barks at them they step back, he won't take any [censored] from cows (mind you
that often comes continuously out of their backsides).
Regards Mike.

HND BIT said:

"Peewiglet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've learned from posts on here that many cows hate dogs (learned
behaviour, presumably), and will advance towards them, presumably in
the hope of kicking them limb from limb. It's been suggested that the
best thing is to let the dog off its lead if cows begin to approach
you, so that you don't get trampled in the rush.

I understand your fear, incidentally. I was brought up not to fear
cows, but I've learned to be wary over the years. I've climbed walls
and taken detours in the past to avoid them, but these days I try to
take a lot of deep breaths, give them a hard stare and continue
through the middle. So far I've remained in once piece...

Best wishes,
--

My dog Alfie hates cows, he's a Staffordshire Bull Terrier and when he
barks at them they step back, he won't take any [censored] from cows (mind you
that often comes continuously out of their backsides).

Well, good for you and Alfie!

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

"More and more of our imports come from overseas."
g.w.AT [guessthisbit].com
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:23:19 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
| wonderful person Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]>
| said
| <snip>
| >Carry a stick or anything long and thin, a walking pole will do.
| >They have been bred for 6000 years to respect a person with a stick.
| >Walk straight at them and make like you are a *bigger* *better* cow than
| >the lot of them, they will move out of the way. If you want them to move
| >left put the stick out on the right, or vica verca. You do not need to
| >hit them, just look as if you may. They have been bred for 6000 years to
| >be thick as two short planks.
| >
| >A group of cows always congregate on the path I use for my afternoon
| >stroll. I get plenty of practice in moving them.
|
| That works fine for a solo walker, but having a dog along is potential
| cause for concern. Cows have spent millions of years learning that the
| best thing to do with a 'wolf' is stomp it before the rest show up.

IMO as a non dog owner, all dogs should walk quietly to heel on command.
Untrained dogs are a menace *anywhere* and should not be allowed.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
"Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*.
"Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*.

On 20/8/05 16:43, in article [email hidden],

AJH said:

If they are just interested in you then walk purposefully forward but
never between them or at their rears. I hold my arms out to appear
bigger and find buzzing noises have some effect. If it comes to shove
you are not going to win.

The advice about when calves are around is very sensible.

I think a lot depends on where the cows are and how often they are used to
seeing walkers. For example, in the Pyrenees over the last couple of weeks,
I was frequently walking past the most laid back cows imaginable - they
hardly batted an eyelid.

All of my most dramatic encounters with cows have taken place in early
evening when I think they were waiting to be taken for milking, or waiting
for food of some kind. Then they seem to be very interested in walkers. I'm
not sure they mean to be threatening but the sight of 30 or so cows moving
towards you with surprising dexterity and speed is a little daunting!

Funnily enough, Pemrokeshire cows seem to be the most problematical (in my
experience). Am going there next week and will make a special point of
observing local cow behaviour ...

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

To mail simply put back the dots ...

On 20/8/05 19:13, in article [email hidden],

Peewiglet said:

I understand your fear, incidentally. I was brought up not to fear
cows, but I've learned to be wary over the years. I've climbed walls
and taken detours in the past to avoid them, but these days I try to
take a lot of deep breaths, give them a hard stare and continue
through the middle. So far I've remained in once piece...

I think that the hard stare is particularly effective (honest).

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

To mail simply put back the dots ...

"Dave Fawthrop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:23:19 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
| wonderful person Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]>
| said
| <snip>
| >Carry a stick or anything long and thin, a walking pole will do.
| >They have been bred for 6000 years to respect a person with a stick.
| >Walk straight at them and make like you are a *bigger* *better* cow
than
| >the lot of them, they will move out of the way. If you want them to
move
| >left put the stick out on the right, or vica verca. You do not need
to
| >hit them, just look as if you may. They have been bred for 6000 years
to
| >be thick as two short planks.
| >
| >A group of cows always congregate on the path I use for my afternoon
| >stroll. I get plenty of practice in moving them.
|
| That works fine for a solo walker, but having a dog along is potential
| cause for concern. Cows have spent millions of years learning that the
| best thing to do with a 'wolf' is stomp it before the rest show up.

IMO as a non dog owner, all dogs should walk quietly to heel on command.
Untrained dogs are a menace *anywhere* and should not be allowed.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
"Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*.
"Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*.

In all the advice here, I'd say the best was the stick-waving/arms raised
and shouting method, Confidence, as with most animals, will also help (I
think they can smell or sense fear) although it's certainly true that you're
better avoiding cows with young, they can be worse than bulls. Oh, and they
don't like black and white dogs for some reason.

Regards

Pat Macguire

"Lynda" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone,

I've only just recently found this newsgroup and hope you'll be able
to offer advice on what probably bothers hardly anyone but me!!

snip

Quoted message said:

I guess what I'm trying to ask is what do you do if you have no choice
but to walk through them. What if they approach with interest,
friendly and otherwise? Should I shout? Wave my hands? Ignore them?

Snip

Quoted message said:

Lynda

Without your dog you should be able to walk quite safely past a herd of
cows. The beasts are curious, but are used to people and after a quick
shufty they'll just stand there watching, chewing the cud and possibly
fertilising the field. Trick is to do nothing that might spook them. Appear
confident and dis-interested. I usually try to avoid eye contact. Move
steadily without making any sudden movements or loud noises. If there are
young calves don't approach them directly.

With your dog things are slightly more interesting, but the same rules
apply - don't frighten the cows; keep your dog under tight control and you
should be OK. Don't release your dog unless absolutely essential. If your
dog starts making a fuss eg straining to be after them; barking - beat a
retreat and calm the dog and find another route. You are liable if your dog
harms a beast.

Roger C

Thank you for all your advice, I guess I am not alone in being a bit
wary!!

Sadly for me, Jake (my dog) is a) black and white b) a Border Collie
and c) scared of cows as he was with me in one of my earlier more
frightening incidents. Believe me he wants to be as far away from them
as I do!

I have been considering getting a stick/walking pole anyway so it
looks like it will be a good idea on more than one count.

Thanks again

Lynda

Dave Fawthrop said:

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:23:19 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
| wonderful person Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]>
| said
| <snip>
| >Carry a stick or anything long and thin, a walking pole will do.
| >They have been bred for 6000 years to respect a person with a stick.
| >Walk straight at them and make like you are a *bigger* *better* cow than
| >the lot of them, they will move out of the way. If you want them to move
| >left put the stick out on the right, or vica verca. You do not need to
| >hit them, just look as if you may. They have been bred for 6000 years to
| >be thick as two short planks.
| >
| >A group of cows always congregate on the path I use for my afternoon
| >stroll. I get plenty of practice in moving them.
|
| That works fine for a solo walker, but having a dog along is potential
| cause for concern. Cows have spent millions of years learning that the
| best thing to do with a 'wolf' is stomp it before the rest show up.

IMO as a non dog owner, all dogs should walk quietly to heel on command.
Untrained dogs are a menace *anywhere* and should not be allowed.

I totally agree. As well as being kept under control when near
sheep/cows etc, Jake goes on a lead when ever I see anyone with
children (with dogs or not) , people with no dogs, runners and bikers.
It's not that I expect a problem with him but I don't see what the
point is in taking a chance - the non dog people, kids, runners etc
may be scared of dogs so I do it out of consideration to them. He's my
responsibliity so I keep him under control. Have to say I've been
thanked many a time.

Anyway, I guess I digress a bit, sorry!

Lynda

Lynda said:

I totally agree. As well as being kept under control when near
sheep/cows etc, Jake goes on a lead when ever I see anyone with
children (with dogs or not) , people with no dogs, runners and bikers.
It's not that I expect a problem with him but I don't see what the
point is in taking a chance - the non dog people, kids, runners etc
may be scared of dogs so I do it out of consideration to them. He's my
responsibliity so I keep him under control. Have to say I've been
thanked many a time.

Hear hear! I wish more of the dog owners in the woods where I run were
like that. I now ask them to hold their dogs while I pass and most of
them are happy to do so, but some of them won't and just want to
argue, at which stage it becomes obvious why they've got a bit
aggressive dog with large teeth and an uncertain temperament...

The high (or maybe low) spot was last year when a large boxer came
slavering up to me in the woods and took my hand in its mouth. The
owner didn't even bat an eyelid...

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

"Is our children learning?"
g.w.AT [guessthisbit].com

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:31:05 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| The high (or maybe low) spot was last year when a large boxer came
| slavering up to me in the woods and took my hand in its mouth. The
| owner didn't even bat an eyelid...

Sue the owner, they should be insured.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
"Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*.
"Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*.

Dave Fawthrop said:

| The high (or maybe low) spot was last year when a large boxer came
| slavering up to me in the woods and took my hand in its mouth. The
| owner didn't even bat an eyelid...

Sue the owner, they should be insured.

Fortunately it didn't close its jaws, but I actually felt like killing
the owner at the time...

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

"When I was coming up it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly
who they were. It was us versus them, and it was clear who them was.
Today we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they're there."
g.w.AT [guessthisbit].com
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:31:05 +0100
in <news:[email hidden]>
Peewiglet <[email hidden]> wrote :

Quoted message said:

The high (or maybe low) spot was last year when a large boxer came
slavering up to me in the woods and took my hand in its mouth. The
owner didn't even bat an eyelid...

"He's just playing"

Any damage? (to you or the dog<g>😉

--
I was thinking of the legendary British Weather,
with the four seasons of winter, mud, rain, and damp.
(Rev. Peter da Silva)