Beloki has Osteoperosis?

just because you're a woman, doesn't mean Beloki is a woman.

"ESMD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NEVER supplement with calcium, it only makes it worse, despite what you hear from the medical
know-it-alls.

Quack.

Andy Coggan

"Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I quit the patch with the advent of the skin rashes

Nice use of the word "advent."

JT

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Visit jt10000.comjt10000.comOpen ↗
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From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad. His vertical fall was not that much more
than 2', the road surface was melting Tar and was probably soft, and he had already bled allot of
his speed before launching off the bike, and his deceleration on hitting the road was not that much
considering his slide afterward. The Femur bone is the largest bone in the body and the least likely
to break. Racers that are known for their climbing ability are smaller and lighter, the best
climbers probably also have the least dense bones because power/Kg is so important that 5 lbs.
difference in total weight would be very sifnificant in climbing ability in the upper echelons of
our sport. I mention all this because I was 5'8" and 135lb. when I raced, and was best at climbing.
I am 55 now and just found out (by acident) I have the bone density of a 70 year old, which is also
the density where people start experiencing compression fractures in the vertebrae. I think that
everybody and especially climbers should go down and get a bone density test done while they are
young. A two point graph, one when you are around 23 years old (when your bones are at their
densest) and one when you are older is very important for determining just how low you are, and how
fast you are losing bone over the years. There are many reasons a person ends up with Oseoperosis
and it's not just women who get it. The medical establisment is just now starting to respond to men
showing up with it, so don't expect them to test you automatically, you must ask for it, and demand
it. Believe me it is a colassal pain in the ass to try and build your bone density back up after you
have lost it, unless you like urinary track infections, swollen prostate glands, flu like symtoms
for weeks at a time and skin rashes so bad it keeps you awake at nite. Thanks for listening -

Ron

Ronald B. Wyckoff said:

Believe me it is a colassal pain in the ass to try and build your bone density back up after you
have lost it, unless you like urinary track infections, swollen prostate glands, flu like symtoms
for weeks at a time and skin rashes so bad it keeps you awake at nite. Thanks for listening -

Ron

Ron, what are you doing to build up your bone density - and in your case, why did bone density
loss occur?

Dave

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:27:12 -0700, "Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email hidden]> wrote:

He wouldn't be the first

telegraph.co.ukmain.jhtmlOpen ↗

Despite being one of the country's fittest endurance athletes, (Chris) Boardman is suffering from
the onset of osteoporosis, the bone-wasting disease which can cause stress fractures and
crippling pain.

Regards! Stephen

Osteoperosis in men is caused by chronic lower levels of testosterone, along with L-T3 (metabolically active thyrod hormone), excess nighttime cortisol levels, AND excess immune activation which causes massive leaching of calcium from bones. Yes DEXA scans are very important for endurance athletes and men over 40. FYI, Maximum bone damage happens from 3:00-4:00am to 7:00-8:00am when the immune system hits it maximum levels for the 24 hour period. Testosterone also hits it max at these times to help modulate and restrain the immune system. Low testo and high cortisol levels is the reason many athletes and older people cannot sleep after 3:00 am, and a big cause of male osteo. Get you testo levels checked by a good doctor. Also NEVER supplement with calcium, it only makes it worse, despite what you hear from the medical know-it-alls. Further OTC supplements do not work despite the hype * * "Smart" elite endurance athletes use a "natural" transdermal testosterone cream at night to aid in recovery and bring their testo levels back to normal in order settle the immune system down and get some solid restorative sleep. Since it is identical to human testo, if doesn't get picked up by the doping testing, unless it is overused causing testo and downstream markers to test above defined limits. Some people call it doping; others say it is smart to protect the human body thru highly destructive nighttime biorhythms, by bring key biomarkers back to normal levels. Guess time will tell..........

Dave M Wyman said:

Ronald B. Wyckoff said:

Believe me it is a colassal pain in the ass to try and build your bone density back up after you
have lost it, unless you like urinary track infections, swollen prostate glands, flu like
symtoms for weeks at a time and skin rashes so bad it keeps you awake at nite. Thanks for
listening -

Ron

Ron, what are you doing to build up your bone density - and in your case, why did bone density
loss occur?

Dave

In my case I have a Testoserone level of 191, normal goes between 260-to around 400. The big
question is, has this level been low all my life or just the last 8 years when my life became very
stressfull. Stress can cause the edrinal gland to put out fifty percent less Testosterone. Also, how
low was my bone density to start with when I was young so I know how dangerous this situation will
get and how fast. My doctor is trying to build up my Testoserone level with a patch that you change
every 24 hours. The side effects are the ones I described in the first post. I quit the patch with
the advent of the skin rashes until I can get a hold of my doctor. I understand you can get
injections too, but don't know what the side effects are of this route, or if there are other routes
to try. Ron

"Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave M Wyman said:

Ronald B. Wyckoff said:

Believe me it is a colassal pain in the ass to try and build your bone density back up after
you have lost it, unless you like urinary track infections, swollen prostate glands, flu like
symtoms for weeks at a time and skin rashes so bad it keeps you awake at nite. Thanks for
listening -

Ron

Ron, what are you doing to build up your bone density - and in your case, why did bone density
loss occur?

Dave

In my case I have a Testoserone level of 191, normal goes between 260-to around 400. The big
question is, has this level been low all my life or just the last 8 years when my life became very
stressfull. Stress can cause the edrinal gland to put out fifty percent less Testosterone. Also,
how low was my bone density to start with when I was young so I know how dangerous this situation
will get and how fast. My doctor is trying to build up my Testoserone level with a patch that you
change every 24 hours. The side effects are the ones I described in the first post. I quit the
patch with the advent of the skin rashes until I can get a hold of my doctor. I understand you can
get injections too, but don't know what the side effects are of this route, or if there are other
routes to try. Ron

Have you tried sublingual tabs or topical cream? Try www.collegepharmacy.com for articles and if
your MD will write the script, they will compound the meds as needed. Sometimes other hormones are
useful to add.

Cyclists are so blasé about their health, as if riding a bike all day is all anyone ever needs to
keep their health. Good for you for doing more.

"Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad. His vertical fall was not that much
more than 2', the road surface was melting Tar and was probably soft, and he had already bled
allot of his speed before launching off the bike, and his deceleration on hitting the road was not
that much considering his slide afterward. The Femur bone is the largest bone in the body and the
least likely to break.

To me it looked like the major impact on the leg was after the tire rolled and the rear of the bike
came around and grabbed the road flipping him onto the surface. Perhaps at that point he broke his
leg on the top bar? That's my own amateur perspective.

"Steve Croft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad. His vertical fall was not that much
more than 2', the road surface was melting Tar and was probably soft, and he had already bled
allot of his speed before launching off the bike, and his deceleration on hitting the road was
not that much considering his slide afterward. The Femur bone is the largest bone in the body
and the least likely to break.

To me it looked like the major impact on the leg was after the tire rolled and the rear of the
bike came around and grabbed the road flipping him onto the surface. Perhaps at that point he
broke his leg on the top bar? That's my own amateur perspective.

No way. That boy hit the pavement HARD.

Ronald B. Wyckoff said:

From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad. His vertical fall was not that much
more than 2', the road surface was melting Tar and was probably soft, and he had already bled
allot of his speed before launching off the bike, and his deceleration on hitting the road was not
that much considering his slide afterward. The Femur bone is the largest bone in the body and the
least likely to break.

I guess I don't buy this interpretation of the crash, except that the femur is large. That crash
looked awful. He got launched over the bike, melting tar is slippery but it isn't usefully spongy,
he was going pretty fast, too hot for the turn, and anyone can slide pretty well after hitting the
ground. "From a physics perspective," your momentum is forward and the impact force is up - only
friction decelerates you. There is an element of bad luck here - you can go over the bars and only
get your bell rung, or you can break bones.

Apparently athletes who do non-load-bearing activities such as cycling can show decreases in bone
density, so that is a legitimate concern.

Nick Burns said:

"Steve Croft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad. His vertical fall was not that much
more than 2', the road surface was melting Tar and was probably soft, and he had already bled
allot of his speed before launching off the bike, and his deceleration on hitting the road was
not that much considering his slide afterward. The Femur bone is the largest bone in the body and
the least likely to break.

To me it looked like the major impact on the leg was after the tire rolled and the rear of the
bike came around and grabbed the road flipping him onto the surface. Perhaps at that point he
broke his leg on the top bar? That's my own amateur perspective.

No way. That boy hit the pavement HARD.

I agree. I don't think someone's realizing that Beloki had 30+mph of speed and momentum to burn off.

--
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Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad.

Watch again, it's bad: boss.streamos.com14action11 300.wvxOpen ↗

He was still moving pretty fast when he went down. Plus, his rear wheel planted which ejected him
from the bike - but not parallel to the ground, or up into the air - he ejected towards the pavement
at speed + acceleration of the ejection caused by the planting of the rear wheel . When he hit the
pavement, it looks like he took almost all of the impact to the hip. When I saw it live, I figured
he'd be done with a hip injury. It was violent.
--
Marty

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No way. That boy hit the pavement HARD.

I agree. I don't think someone's realizing that Beloki had 30+mph of speed and momentum to
burn off.

Yes ... but ... i have and know many who have done this a much higher speeds ... i high slid going
90mph hit so hard i cracked a SNELL rated motorcycle helmet ... no broken bones other than a
separated collar bone ... now, there is a theory which says eat lots of food with calcium since
cycling's low impact tends to not stimulate bone growth. Also, if he drinks a ton of sodas ... which
has phosphoric acid ... which bonds to calcium and makes it difficult to absorb in the body ... the
soda consumption could have compounded the weak bones and therefore broke on a impact like this ...

Maybe running is not bad after all ... ;-)

s boardnbike.comboardnbike.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

NEVER supplement with calcium, it only makes it worse, despite what you hear from the medical
know-it-alls.

Quack.

Andy Coggan

------------------
From Roadracer:

Andy Coggan = Total Idiot!!

ESMD is exactly right. Every athlete that understands health knows you don't supplement calcium as calcium is a major inflammatory that can wreak your nerves, muscles, organs, and brain if you don't have the proper neural and hormonal factors for it to properly uptake to new bone matrix reformation. In osteoporosis you have a high imbalance between osteoblasts (builds bone) and osteoclasts (breaks down bone) and this excess breakdown is causing excess circulatory calcium levels. Taking calcium supplements just increases immune activation, inflammation, and increases the degenerative disease process. Excess circulatory calcium has been medically implicated in all major neurodegenerative diseases including ALS and early on-set Parkinson’s, which current increases in athletes is the highest every recorded in medical history.

You need to stop getting a boner watching milk commercials clown!!

"Marty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad.

Watch again, it's bad: boss.streamos.com14action11 300.wvxOpen ↗

He was still moving pretty fast when he went down. Plus, his rear wheel planted which ejected him
from the bike - but not parallel to the ground,

or

Quoted message said:

up into the air - he ejected towards the pavement at speed + acceleration

of

Quoted message said:

the ejection caused by the planting of the rear wheel . When he hit the pavement, it looks like he
took almost all of the impact to the hip. When

I

Quoted message said:

saw it live, I figured he'd be done with a hip injury. It was violent.

I know of a rider who broke their hip (femoral neck fracture) going all of about 8 mph - front wheel
dropped into some railroad tracks, and he was vaulted over the bars much like you describe. He isn't
some undernourished climber, either, but a former weightlifter whose bones are probably quite dense.

People who do research on osteoporosis like to refer to a "fracture threshold"...but in fact any
bone, even a thick, healthy one, will break under sufficient force (obviously).

None of which is meant to minimize the issue of osteopenia/osteoporosis among elite cyclists, which
does occur....

Andy Coggan

"Marty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad.

Watch again, it's bad: boss.streamos.com14action11 300.wvxOpen ↗

He was still moving pretty fast when he went down. Plus, his rear wheel planted which ejected him
from the bike - but not parallel to the ground,

or

Quoted message said:

up into the air - he ejected towards the pavement at speed + acceleration

of

Quoted message said:

the ejection caused by the planting of the rear wheel . When he hit the pavement, it looks like he
took almost all of the impact to the hip. When

I

Quoted message said:

saw it live, I figured he'd be done with a hip injury. It was violent.
--
Marty

Looking at my chart of the skeletal system, the Greater Trochanter is the top of the Femur that you
feel with you push on the side of your "hip." It is the attachment for several muscles but does not
have a muscle covering it on the side. Therefore, when Beloki landed almost straight down on the
side of his "hip," he apparently landed directly on the Greater Trochanter. This could have broken
the neck of the Femur (between the Greater Trochanter and the Head of the Femur (ball at the end of
the Femur in the socket of the Illium).

It is unlikely that the fall broke the Femur between the Greater Trochanter and the knee because of
the lack of force in this area at impact. Of course, this is all supposition because I have been
unable to find specifics on Beloki's injuries.

One of my riding buddies fell in an algae-covered low-water crossing at less than 5 mph and broke
the neck of his Femur. Dropping straight down from about 3 feet onto your hip (Greater Trochanter)
is definitely not something to try at home, boys and girls.

SJ

I broke my hip while going just 10 MPH. The guy next to me slipped while we were crosing some RR
tracks in a rainstorm. I dont have osteoporosis.

If you hit it at the right place with the requisite amount of force, trust me, it'll break. In my
situation, the force of the man who fel lon top of me helped create this requisite amount.

When I saw Beloki go down, I immediately felt he'd emerge with a badly broken hip. He got that plus
a dislocation to go with it (a messy break).

-k

"Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad. His vertical fall was not that much
more than 2', the road surface was melting Tar and was probably soft, and he had already bled
allot of his speed before launching off the bike, and his deceleration on hitting the road was not
that much considering his slide afterward. The Femur bone is the largest bone in the body and the
least likely to break. Racers that are known for their climbing ability are smaller and lighter,
the best climbers probably also have the least dense bones because power/Kg is so important that 5
lbs. difference in total weight would be very sifnificant in climbing ability in the upper
echelons of our sport. I mention all this because I was 5'8" and 135lb. when I raced, and was best
at climbing. I am 55 now and just found out (by acident) I have the bone density of a 70 year old,
which is also the density where people start experiencing compression fractures in the vertebrae.
I think that everybody and especially climbers should go down and get a bone density test done
while they are young. A two point graph, one when you are around 23 years old (when your bones are
at their densest) and one when you are older is very important for determining just how low you
are, and how fast you are losing bone over the years. There are many reasons a person ends up with
Oseoperosis and it's not just women who get it. The medical establisment is just now starting to
respond to men showing up with it, so don't expect them to test you automatically, you must ask
for it, and demand it. Believe me it is a colassal pain in the ass to try and build your bone
density back up after you have lost it, unless you like urinary track infections, swollen prostate
glands, flu like symtoms for weeks at a time and skin rashes so bad it keeps you awake at nite.
Thanks for listening -

Ron