Tour Q...

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here is a bit of trivia:
Can anyone tell me what the frame make/material that Greg Lemond rode
in his very first Tour win in 1986? Thanks.

Look branded aluminum, probably a Vitus made frame.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here is a bit of trivia:
Can anyone tell me what the frame make/material that Greg Lemond rode
in his very first Tour win in 1986? Thanks.

Look branded aluminum, probably a Vitus made frame.

Also, Campy Super Record Gruppo and Look pedals.

Quoted message said:

Here is a bit of trivia:
Can anyone tell me what the frame make/material that Greg Lemond rode
in his very first Tour win in 1986? Thanks.

Appears to be a bonded frame very similar to the TVT carbon bikes of
that era, though the ones in many of the photos are labeled "Look".

See LeMond's bike(s) in Google images at
images.google.comimagesOpen ↗
or http://tinyurl.com/9spcx

Compare to a TVT at
http://www.bikefanclub.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1288&password=&sort=1&size=big&cat=500&page=1
or http://tinyurl.com/cffr5

and another TVT here:
http://www.tourgalerie.de/gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=0
or http://tinyurl.com/crqy8

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here is a bit of trivia:
Can anyone tell me what the frame make/material that Greg Lemond rode
in his very first Tour win in 1986? Thanks.

Appears to be a bonded frame very similar to the TVT carbon bikes of
that era, though the ones in many of the photos are labeled "Look".

See LeMond's bike(s) in Google images at
images.google.comimagesOpen ↗
or http://tinyurl.com/9spcx

Compare to a TVT at
http://www.bikefanclub.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1288&password=&sort=1&size=big&cat=500&page=1
or http://tinyurl.com/cffr5

and another TVT here:
http://www.tourgalerie.de/gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=0
or http://tinyurl.com/crqy8

If you look on page 100 of Jean-Paul Ollivier's book "The Giants of
Cycling," you will see Lemond on what appears to be an aluminum frame
anodized a bluish silver color, branded Look on the down tube and Huffy on
the top tube. IIRC, Lemond used carbon in the mountains in 1990 but I'm not
at all certain that he used carbon when with ADR riding on Botecchia.

B. Lafferty said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here is a bit of trivia:
Can anyone tell me what the frame make/material that Greg Lemond rode
in his very first Tour win in 1986? Thanks.

Look branded aluminum, probably a Vitus made frame.

Thanks...

I was curious becuase a fellow on eBay had a 'Lemond LOOK frame' for
auction. It is
aluminum-lugged carbon-fiber. I was curious as I ddin't think they had
carbon-fiber in
The Tour (or even as a frame material for that matter) back in 1986.

Joe

"Joe Cipale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here is a bit of trivia:
Can anyone tell me what the frame make/material that Greg Lemond rode
in his very first Tour win in 1986? Thanks.

Look branded aluminum, probably a Vitus made frame.

Thanks...

I was curious becuase a fellow on eBay had a 'Lemond LOOK frame' for
auction. It is
aluminum-lugged carbon-fiber. I was curious as I ddin't think they had
carbon-fiber in
The Tour (or even as a frame material for that matter) back in 1986.

Joe

I'll have to check later, but, IIRC, Lucho Herrara was riding on a lugged
carbon frame in the 1986 Tour. That may have been the first time they were
used there. They of course mimicked the Exxon Graftek in design.

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

I was curious becuase a fellow on eBay had a 'Lemond LOOK frame' for
auction. It is
aluminum-lugged carbon-fiber. I was curious as I ddin't think they had
carbon-fiber in
The Tour (or even as a frame material for that matter) back in 1986.

Joe

I'll have to check later, but, IIRC, Lucho Herrara was riding on a lugged
carbon frame in the 1986 Tour. That may have been the first time they were
used there. They of course mimicked the Exxon Graftek in design.

Since the team I was riding for in 1987 was using Vitus carbon frames,
I'm sure they were available to Herrera a year earlier.

The Vitus frames used round carbon tubes bonded to aluminum. The
headstock was one piece aluminum w/ "male" lug appendages, as was the
BB. All the aluminum fittings were designed to fit inside the carbon
tubes. Finish on the carbon tubes was matte. The Vitus had a polished
aluminum fork.

The Graftek had all "female" lug appendages, all stainless steel,
fitting over the carbon tubes. The head tube was a carbon tube as well.
Finish on the carbon tubes was glossy. IIRC, the Graftek had a chromed
steel fork.

In other words, aside from following the common road racing frame
design (now a mandatory UCI design), Vitus did not mimic the Graftek
whatsoever.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

I was curious becuase a fellow on eBay had a 'Lemond LOOK frame' for
auction. It is
aluminum-lugged carbon-fiber. I was curious as I ddin't think they had
carbon-fiber in
The Tour (or even as a frame material for that matter) back in 1986.

Joe

I'll have to check later, but, IIRC, Lucho Herrara was riding on a lugged
carbon frame in the 1986 Tour. That may have been the first time they
were
used there. They of course mimicked the Exxon Graftek in design.

Since the team I was riding for in 1987 was using Vitus carbon frames,
I'm sure they were available to Herrera a year earlier.

The Vitus frames used round carbon tubes bonded to aluminum. The
headstock was one piece aluminum w/ "male" lug appendages, as was the
BB. All the aluminum fittings were designed to fit inside the carbon
tubes. Finish on the carbon tubes was matte. The Vitus had a polished
aluminum fork.

I've come across one reference to Lemond riding carbon painted silver in
1986. His machine appears to have a polished aluminium fork.

Quoted message said:

The Graftek had all "female" lug appendages, all stainless steel,
fitting over the carbon tubes. The head tube was a carbon tube as well.
Finish on the carbon tubes was glossy. IIRC, the Graftek had a chromed
steel fork.

Right. I'd forgotten about the ss lugs.

Quoted message said:

In other words, aside from following the common road racing frame
design (now a mandatory UCI design), Vitus did not mimic the Graftek
whatsoever.

Depends on how you define mimic. But to quote Jim Langley, "The first
carbon-tubed, metal lugged frame appears: the Exxon Graftek. Suffered from
frequent frame failure. The technology was later perfected by Look, Trek and
others." Maybe it depends on how you define "whatsoever." :-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

>
> I was curious becuase a fellow on eBay had a 'Lemond LOOK frame' for
> auction. It is
> aluminum-lugged carbon-fiber. I was curious as I ddin't think they had
> carbon-fiber in
> The Tour (or even as a frame material for that matter) back in 1986.
>
> Joe

I'll have to check later, but, IIRC, Lucho Herrara was riding on a lugged
carbon frame in the 1986 Tour. That may have been the first time they
were
used there. They of course mimicked the Exxon Graftek in design.

Since the team I was riding for in 1987 was using Vitus carbon frames,
I'm sure they were available to Herrera a year earlier.

The Vitus frames used round carbon tubes bonded to aluminum. The
headstock was one piece aluminum w/ "male" lug appendages, as was the
BB. All the aluminum fittings were designed to fit inside the carbon
tubes. Finish on the carbon tubes was matte. The Vitus had a polished
aluminum fork.

I've come across one reference to Lemond riding carbon painted silver in
1986. His machine appears to have a polished aluminium fork.

Quoted message said:

The Graftek had all "female" lug appendages, all stainless steel,
fitting over the carbon tubes. The head tube was a carbon tube as well.
Finish on the carbon tubes was glossy. IIRC, the Graftek had a chromed
steel fork.

Right. I'd forgotten about the ss lugs.

Quoted message said:

In other words, aside from following the common road racing frame
design (now a mandatory UCI design), Vitus did not mimic the Graftek
whatsoever.

Depends on how you define mimic. But to quote Jim Langley, "The first
carbon-tubed, metal lugged frame appears: the Exxon Graftek. Suffered from
frequent frame failure. The technology was later perfected by Look, Trek and
others." Maybe it depends on how you define "whatsoever." :-)

Depends on how you define "mimic." If round tubes joined by lugs in a diamond
pattern seems like mimicry to you you...

Ron

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty wrote:
> >
> > I was curious becuase a fellow on eBay had a 'Lemond LOOK frame' for
> > auction. It is
> > aluminum-lugged carbon-fiber. I was curious as I ddin't think they
> > had
> > carbon-fiber in
> > The Tour (or even as a frame material for that matter) back in 1986.
> >
> > Joe
>
> I'll have to check later, but, IIRC, Lucho Herrara was riding on a
> lugged
> carbon frame in the 1986 Tour. That may have been the first time they
> were
> used there. They of course mimicked the Exxon Graftek in design.

Since the team I was riding for in 1987 was using Vitus carbon frames,
I'm sure they were available to Herrera a year earlier.

The Vitus frames used round carbon tubes bonded to aluminum. The
headstock was one piece aluminum w/ "male" lug appendages, as was the
BB. All the aluminum fittings were designed to fit inside the carbon
tubes. Finish on the carbon tubes was matte. The Vitus had a polished
aluminum fork.

I've come across one reference to Lemond riding carbon painted silver in
1986. His machine appears to have a polished aluminium fork.

Quoted message said:

The Graftek had all "female" lug appendages, all stainless steel,
fitting over the carbon tubes. The head tube was a carbon tube as well.
Finish on the carbon tubes was glossy. IIRC, the Graftek had a chromed
steel fork.

Right. I'd forgotten about the ss lugs.

Quoted message said:

In other words, aside from following the common road racing frame
design (now a mandatory UCI design), Vitus did not mimic the Graftek
whatsoever.

Depends on how you define mimic. But to quote Jim Langley, "The first
carbon-tubed, metal lugged frame appears: the Exxon Graftek. Suffered from
frequent frame failure. The technology was later perfected by Look, Trek
and
others." Maybe it depends on how you define "whatsoever." :-)

Depends on how you define "mimic." If round tubes joined by lugs in a
diamond
pattern seems like mimicry to you you...

Ron

Tubes of carbon fiber bonded into lugs with an epoxy style adhesive mimics
in 1986 mimics to a significant extent the bonded carbon epoxy to lug frames
of Graftek circa 1975. There are differences in construction to be sure,
but put a Graftex next to a 1990 Trek carbon bonded frame and they will look
much more similar than a Trek or Graftec next to a lugged Reynolds 753
frame.

As a matter of fact I had one of those. It was manufactured by another
company whose name slips my mind. However, all of them I ever saw had
corrosion damage around the lugs and had to be thrown away.

I don't think that LeMond had one of those though.

Ben Serotta claims that he made the bike that LeMond rode in the '86
Tour but I've always heard soto vox that it was Roland Della Sante
whose bikes were under Greg most of the time.

For the record
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cyclefit.co.uk/serrota_2004/pics/lemond.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cyclefit.co.uk/serotta_11.htm&h=400&w=420&sz=37&tbnid=myml6JAZz2wJ:&tbnh=116&tbnw=122&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlemond%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1
looks like the aluminum lugged carbon frame I had.

TVT - that was the name I was trying to remember. Don't buy one of
these unless it's guaranteed not to have corrosion damage at the lugs.
Very easy to see since it bubbles the finish and is a milky white
color.

Peugeot branded and sold this same carbon frame back in late 1984 or
early 85. It was the same frame as the Vitus frames that came out
later on. You had to use clips to secure the bottle cages and brake
cables. Matte grey finish. Lightest thing available at the time.

Carl Sundquist said:

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

I was curious becuase a fellow on eBay had a 'Lemond LOOK frame' for
auction. It is
aluminum-lugged carbon-fiber. I was curious as I ddin't think they had
carbon-fiber in
The Tour (or even as a frame material for that matter) back in 1986.

Joe

I'll have to check later, but, IIRC, Lucho Herrara was riding on a lugged
carbon frame in the 1986 Tour. That may have been the first time they were
used there. They of course mimicked the Exxon Graftek in design.

Since the team I was riding for in 1987 was using Vitus carbon frames,
I'm sure they were available to Herrera a year earlier.

The Vitus frames used round carbon tubes bonded to aluminum. The
headstock was one piece aluminum w/ "male" lug appendages, as was the
BB. All the aluminum fittings were designed to fit inside the carbon
tubes. Finish on the carbon tubes was matte. The Vitus had a polished
aluminum fork.

The Graftek had all "female" lug appendages, all stainless steel,
fitting over the carbon tubes. The head tube was a carbon tube as well.
Finish on the carbon tubes was glossy. IIRC, the Graftek had a chromed
steel fork.

In other words, aside from following the common road racing frame
design (now a mandatory UCI design), Vitus did not mimic the Graftek
whatsoever.

If Serotta did build it, then he simply measured and cut the Aluminum
(Aluminium to you brits) tubes and did the gluing, but those were Vitus
frame parts all the way. I'd hardly call that a Serrota.

Tom Kunich a écrit :

Quoted message said:

As a matter of fact I had one of those. It was manufactured by another
company whose name slips my mind. However, all of them I ever saw had
corrosion damage around the lugs and had to be thrown away.

I don't think that LeMond had one of those though.

Ben Serotta claims that he made the bike that LeMond rode in the '86
Tour but I've always heard soto vox that it was Roland Della Sante
whose bikes were under Greg most of the time.

For the record
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cyclefit.co.uk/serrota_2004/pics/lemond.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cyclefit.co.uk/serotta_11.htm&h=400&w=420&sz=37&tbnid=myml6JAZz2wJ:&tbnh=116&tbnw=122&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlemond%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1
looks like the aluminum lugged carbon frame I had.

It would be easy to verify the dossard number, but wouldn't this be a 89
pic ? In 86 he was in the team of the previous year winner, and he did
not have lemon-yellow pants.

Look did build the 972 all aluminium frame, and then put out a version
were the three main tubes were carbon. I had a 972 in 83-89. Very nice,
light and comfy, but quite flexible. Sean Kelly loved the frame and
used it for a long time. He also won Paris-Roubaix on it.

cheers,

B

"Benjamin Werner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich a écrit :

Quoted message said:

As a matter of fact I had one of those. It was manufactured by another
company whose name slips my mind. However, all of them I ever saw had
corrosion damage around the lugs and had to be thrown away.

I don't think that LeMond had one of those though.

Ben Serotta claims that he made the bike that LeMond rode in the '86
Tour but I've always heard soto vox that it was Roland Della Sante
whose bikes were under Greg most of the time.

For the record
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cyclefit.co.uk/serrota_2004/pics/lemond.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cyclefit.co.uk/serotta_11.htm&h=400&w=420&sz=37&tbnid=myml6JAZz2wJ:&tbnh=116&tbnw=122&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlemond%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1
looks like the aluminum lugged carbon frame I had.

It would be easy to verify the dossard number, but wouldn't this be a 89
pic ? In 86 he was in the team of the previous year winner, and he did not
have lemon-yellow pants.

Look did build the 972 all aluminium frame, and then put out a version
were the three main tubes were carbon. I had a 972 in 83-89. Very nice,
light and comfy, but quite flexible. Sean Kelly loved the frame and used
it for a long time. He also won Paris-Roubaix on it.

cheers,

B

Nashbar has some that they are blowing out for $175.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=130&subcategory=1176&brand=&sku=13102&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:28:16 -0700, Joe Cipale <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I was curious becuase a fellow on eBay had a 'Lemond LOOK frame' for
auction. It is
aluminum-lugged carbon-fiber. I was curious as I ddin't think they had
carbon-fiber in
The Tour (or even as a frame material for that matter) back in 1986.

Mike Shermer showed up at the League of American Wheelmen events in
1985 and 1986 with a lugged carbon fiber Peugeot (he was trying to get
his speaking business off the ground - wonder what happened to that?).
For some reason I remember the 85 frame only available in relative
small sizes, but that might be because Shermer rode a small frame.

A big deal back then.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Quoted message said:

Here is a bit of trivia:
Can anyone tell me what the frame make/material that Greg Lemond rode
in his very first Tour win in 1986? Thanks.

I dug out my 19-year-old (!) Winning, because they always used to do a
feature on the winning bike.

He rode mostly on a lugged steel (Renyolds 753) frame with the then-new
'C-Record' components. He had been on Look pedals since the previous
years Coors Classic. Cinelli bars and stem, Ambrosio Rims, Vittoria
Tubulars, Malliard Freewheel, San Marco Saddle.

For the mountains he rode a carbon TVT re-badged as a Look. His bikes
carried both Look and Huffy labels.

For TT's he had a steel 753 'funny' bike.

The yellow jersies were wool! A different era indeed...

Curtis L. Russell said:

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:28:16 -0700, Joe Cipale <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I was curious becuase a fellow on eBay had a 'Lemond LOOK frame' for
auction. It is
aluminum-lugged carbon-fiber. I was curious as I ddin't think they had
carbon-fiber in
The Tour (or even as a frame material for that matter) back in 1986.

Mike Shermer showed up at the League of American Wheelmen events in
1985 and 1986 with a lugged carbon fiber Peugeot (he was trying to get
his speaking business off the ground - wonder what happened to that?).
For some reason I remember the 85 frame only available in relative
small sizes, but that might be because Shermer rode a small frame.

A big deal back then.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Peugot used to have a ad showing Pascal Simon holding the bike above
his
head. If there is a huge clamor, I could be persuaded to scan it.