Re: Cardio work

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:55:46 -0700, Chris Neary <[email hidden] >

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm new to road cycling and was needing some suggestions on getting my
cardio health up to speed for biking. I rode 30 miles this past
weekend with my wife and it almost killed me. I'm in good physical
shape, but rarely do any cardio. I've had one person say do intervals
on my treadmill, and others say just ride a few times a week.
Unfortunately, I can only ride on the weekends. Thanks in advance for
any suggestions.

If you can't get out and ride, add my vote to the guy saying to do intervals
on the treadmill.

Isn't it a little bit different for you, an experienced cyclist, using the
treadmill on snow days versus someone who isn't riding much at all (yet)
trying to use the treadmill to get an up on cycling conditioning? Just
asking.

I don't think most people who ask these kinds of questions really give us
enough information. "it almost killed me" is just too non-specific. Was it
a hilly course? Did it kill him at the time (lungs) or was it later (legs),
or both?

Also, getting your cardio up to speed for biking means one thing if you
live in the hills, versus riding the flats at 13mph.

My brother, who works manual labor, climbing ladders, etc got up to speed
in about three months of two or three times a week riding for about 45min,
riding the flats. His biggest problem seemed to be quad and calf soreness.
It took me twice that long to go from 'deskjob' to riding 45min at about
12-14mph, and I rode everyday. Of course I'm in the hills and he's in the
flats..

Quoted message said:

I do some of this in the winter when I can't get out and ride during the
week. A couple of evenings during the week, 30 to 45 minutes/session is in
the ballpark with my thinking.

It's definitely nice to have some kind of a backup if you get weathered in.
I use a flywheel stationary bike, but wish I had a nice trainer setup with
my rain bike or something since that's closer to 'real riding'.

What's a bit puzzling is that the OP seems to want to get in cycling shape,
yet he can only ride a little and only on the weekends. I'd argue he
doesn't really want to ride that much or he'd be finding time during the
week. Either that or he has a misconception that he can just 'get into
shape' overnight, and then just hop on the bike and ride like a pro on 6-8
days riding a month.

It's an on-going process and takes most people 3-5 years of consistent
riding to get good. To merely get your "cardio up", ime, requires at least
3-4 days per week for about 4 to 6 months - otherwise you're just gonna
always be hurting and slogging. YMMV, especially if you're 20 years old.<g>

jj

Quoted message said:

Good luck!

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

jet wrote

Quoted message said:

I'd argue he doesn't really want to ride that much
or he'd be finding time during the week.

Indoor training workouts fits fine with love of outdoor riding.

Sharon and I love our riding adventures on our tandem, but we almost never
ride outdoors more than once a week (except on vacations). Each weekend we
put our tandem on the back of our car and drive to someplace fun and pretty
to do our outdoor adventure ride. During the week we put our single bikes on
training stands in our living room with some video playing to distract us,
and multiple fans to keep the sweat down.

After two months of that this spring, we were able to ride 135 miles in one
day. We finished strong, feeling like we could have done more.

One day of our indoor riding is some sort of more intense "intervals". The
second indoor session is some technique focus, especially single-leg
pedaling. Often another session of indoor cardio "cross-training", and
usually one weekly session on weight machines.

Years ago we used to try to do mid-week outdoor bicycle workouts, but now
we've found so many advantages to indoors:
* keeps our outdoor riding fresh and fun all the time.
* less time wasted before and after the workout.
* better measurement and recording of performance levels for progressive
development.
* no holding back on mental focus and intensity in interval sessions,
because no need to worry about cars.
* no problem with keeping up our workouts in wet or cold weather (or in hot
+ humid weather)
* the videos we watch give us greater variety of scenery than we'd get
outside repeating some local training loop.

We honor our love of fun adventure riding, by not using outdoor riding as a
means of development. Instead our outdoor riding is the goal of development,
the great adventure that also provides a year-after-year-sustainable
motivation for mid-week exercise.

Ken

Ken Roberts said:

jet wrote

Quoted message said:

I'd argue he doesn't really want to ride that much
or he'd be finding time during the week.

Indoor training workouts fits fine with love of outdoor riding.

Sharon and I love our riding adventures on our tandem, but we almost never
ride outdoors more than once a week (except on vacations). Each weekend we
put our tandem on the back of our car and drive to someplace fun and pretty
to do our outdoor adventure ride. During the week we put our single bikes on
training stands in our living room with some video playing to distract us,
and multiple fans to keep the sweat down.

Kooky, man. It must be quite a sight. Got any snaps? ;-p

Quoted message said:

After two months of that this spring, we were able to ride 135 miles in one
day. We finished strong, feeling like we could have done more.

What kind of training stand? Mag, fluid. Doesn't that eat up the tires
pretty fast?

Quoted message said:

One day of our indoor riding is some sort of more intense "intervals". The
second indoor session is some technique focus, especially single-leg
pedaling. Often another session of indoor cardio "cross-training", and
usually one weekly session on weight machines.

Wonder if radon count plus outgassing of paint, furniture and cat dander is
equal to an hour of suburban smog?

Quoted message said:

Years ago we used to try to do mid-week outdoor bicycle workouts, but now
we've found so many advantages to indoors:

Quoted message said:

* keeps our outdoor riding fresh and fun all the time.

Wow, I bet! ;-D

Quoted message said:

* less time wasted before and after the workout.

It takes me 10 minutes to get out the door. You leave your rig
pre-assembled all the time?

Quoted message said:

* better measurement and recording of performance levels for progressive
development.
* no holding back on mental focus and intensity in interval sessions,
because no need to worry about cars.

Check on that one, except you don't have that 'gotta do it or die' kind of
approach to hills. I just don't -think- I can get as intense indoors, but
I'm willing to believe it. Certainly your HRM would prove that out. You
wear one?

Quoted message said:

* no problem with keeping up our workouts in wet or cold weather (or in hot
+ humid weather)

That's definitely a plus. In addition you can ride at any time of the day
or night. There have been lots of time I wanted to ride at night, but the
thought of coping with all the lighting is daunting.

Quoted message said:

* the videos we watch give us greater variety of scenery than we'd get
outside repeating some local training loop.

Check. You use scenery vids or bike racing vids or what?

Quoted message said:

We honor our love of fun adventure riding, by not using outdoor riding as a
means of development. Instead our outdoor riding is the goal of development,
the great adventure that also provides a year-after-year-sustainable
motivation for mid-week exercise.

OK, no need to rationalize. Just tell me about your setup for the rowing
machine and the little waterfall in the back yard! <g>

(I tease, but there are a lot of advantages. I do about 10-15min/day riding
on my stationary bike to get pumped before the outdoor ride.)

jj

Quoted message said:

Ken

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you can't get out and ride, add my vote to the guy saying to do intervals
on the treadmill.

Isn't it a little bit different for you, an experienced cyclist, using the
treadmill on snow days versus someone who isn't riding much at all (yet)
trying to use the treadmill to get an up on cycling conditioning? Just
asking.

I don't think most people who ask these kinds of questions really give us
enough information. "it almost killed me" is just too non-specific. Was it
a hilly course? Did it kill him at the time (lungs) or was it later (legs),
or both?

I agree, it would be great to have more complete info before offering advice
to the original poster, but I don't have the time and inclination to post a
detailed questionaire.

His opinion is he is in "good physical shape, but rarely does any cardio".
His assessment may be off, but I took it at face value. A treadmill is a
perfectly sensible tool for cardio improvement, though it helps to know how
to use it.

Quoted message said:

Also, getting your cardio up to speed for biking means one thing if you
live in the hills, versus riding the flats at 13mph.

I'm not so sure about that statement. In either case the tool to use will be
intervals, the only real difference will be how the necessary overload is
produced.

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

jet said:

Ken Roberts said:

jet wrote

Quoted message said:

I'd argue he doesn't really want to ride that much
or he'd be finding time during the week.

Indoor training workouts fits fine with love of outdoor riding.

[...Ken and his wife use trainers during the week and ride the
tandem outdoors on weekends...]

[...snip...]

Quoted message said:

Years ago we used to try to do mid-week outdoor bicycle workouts, but now
we've found so many advantages to indoors:

Quoted message said:

[...snip...]

Quoted message said:

* better measurement and recording of performance levels for progressive
development.
* no holding back on mental focus and intensity in interval sessions,
because no need to worry about cars.

Check on that one, except you don't have that 'gotta do it or die' kind of
approach to hills. I just don't -think- I can get as intense indoors, but
I'm willing to believe it. Certainly your HRM would prove that out. You
wear one?

A Cyclops Fluid2 will let you dial up over 700 Watts. I don't know
about you, but *I* can't sustain that. Crank up 200 or 300 Watts and
sustain it for 10-15 minutes and that should simulate a pretty
respectable hill.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[...other advantages...]

I gotta get me a trainer. I've worked too hard this summer to just let
it turn into flab over the winter.

--
Chris BeHanna

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On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 00:29:42 -0400, Chris BeHanna <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Check on that one, except you don't have that 'gotta do it or die' kind of
approach to hills. I just don't -think- I can get as intense indoors, but
I'm willing to believe it. Certainly your HRM would prove that out. You
wear one?

A Cyclops Fluid2 will let you dial up over 700 Watts. I don't know
about you, but *I* can't sustain that. Crank up 200 or 300 Watts and
sustain it for 10-15 minutes and that should simulate a pretty
respectable hill.

I have no experience with riding a trainer except for when I had my bike
fitted in the store. I'm not saying it's not possible to dial up a high
wattage on a trainer - obviously you know.

I'm just offering that when you're out riding and you -have- to make that
hill, no way around it or you're not going home, then the effort you put
out will be higher than 'oh, I'm gonna pedal my trainer until the next
commercial comes on the TV'. ;-)

IOW on a trainer it's a decision. Outside riding there is no 'decision' -
you ride as hard as the hill dictates. Don't get me wrong - I'm able to
'decide' to ride hard or to lift a heavy weight in the squat rack. But the
kind of intensity that 'happens' on the road is much higher than I'd
normally willingly elect to do on a trainer - I -think-.

Heh. I'll have to try it and see though. Right now, judging with my
stationary bike I do ride it pretty hard, and I'm not worried about saving
anything, but just doesn't seem like as hard a workout as road riding.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[...other advantages...]

I gotta get me a trainer. I've worked too hard this summer to just let
it turn into flab over the winter.

Yep. I've been putting it off, partly because I'm just a -little- worried
I'll like it too much and start skipping rides to stay inside when it's
cold and pedal while watching TV. ;-D

jj

Quoted message said:

--
Chris BeHanna

jet said:

IOW on a trainer it's a decision. Outside riding there is no 'decision' -
you ride as hard as the hill dictates. Don't get me wrong - I'm able to
'decide' to ride hard or to lift a heavy weight in the squat rack. But the
kind of intensity that 'happens' on the road is much higher than I'd
normally willingly elect to do on a trainer - I -think-.

My highest intensity comes when I'm pretty much gone and that wheel
I'm following starts pulling away and I now have to shift to a
even higher gear. That's when I turn off the HRM.

Bob

On 18 Aug 2005 15:18:09 GMT, Robert Lorenzini <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

jet said:

IOW on a trainer it's a decision. Outside riding there is no 'decision' -
you ride as hard as the hill dictates. Don't get me wrong - I'm able to
'decide' to ride hard or to lift a heavy weight in the squat rack. But the
kind of intensity that 'happens' on the road is much higher than I'd
normally willingly elect to do on a trainer - I -think-.

My highest intensity comes when I'm pretty much gone and that wheel
I'm following starts pulling away and I now have to shift to a
even higher gear. That's when I turn off the HRM.

Bob

Yeah, I sometimes scare myself. ;-D

jj