Altitude - when do you start feeling it?

Eden said:

So yesterday I went and did a test run on a course that I am thinking about entering a race on in a month (bettered my time from last year by about 1/2 hour - yeah!). It's a hillclimb and climbs about 4,300 feet to and altitude of about 5,100 feet. About a mile from the top I totally felt like I wasn't getting enough oxygen. My breathing got to be quite rapid and raggedy. I don't think that it was all from exertion - the grade of the road is pretty harsh at the top, but there are parts futher down that are just as bad and I don't think that it was psychological because even after we got to the top and stopped the feeling didn't go away until we descended about a mile or two. So was I imagining this? was I just tired? when do you start to feel the effects of altitiude? btw. I live pretty much at sea level.

I live at 1500 ft and work at 3000 + so 5100 ft doesn't affect me except for the trip itself.
I imagine if you are not use to higher elevations it can affect you more. I have noted that people with health problems seem to be more sensitive and show symptoms even at 3000 ft.
I would think that the combination of exertion and not being climatized would affect you at 5100 feet.

Eden,

First off, good job on the new time!

Now, the answer to this question (like everything else) is "it depends." It depends mainly on the person. I live at about 4500'. In the winters I teach skiing at between 8700' and 10500'. At these elevations, I never seem to notice the altitude. I do quite a bit of hiking too an it's never really been an issue (I can only think of once). Even when I climbed Haleakala in Maui back in April I didn't have any problems. This was after 3-4 days at sea level (You can lose your acclimatization in as little as 2-3 days). Issues with altitude don't correlate well to activity level lifestyle etc (I think with the exception of smoking...)

Given that you live at sea level, it wouldn't be unusual to start seeing the affects of altitude at 4500-5000'. That seems to be right about where you started having problems. I used to work at a ski resort back east with a base elevation of 4500' and we would routinely see folks with shortness of breath at that elevation. The most acute case I've ever seen was a guy I had in a lesson a few years back. He got on a plane in Florida at 8:00 am eastern, and was at my lesson at 1:30 in the afternoon. He was overweight (250-300lbs), had on way too many clothes and it was a very warm (35-40 deg F) spring day. He was panting and sweating bullets just from walking from the base lodge to the meeting area. I had him sit on the bench there and we pulled several layers, down to his polypro and his ski pants. The I had him lay down on a bench we had there. Next thing he said was, "I need a cigarette." At this point I motioned to my supervisor and we agreed we should call ski patrol to be on the safe side. When I turned back around he had moved and way laying on his back, in the snow smoking away. A minute ot two later the ski patrol showed up. They talked to him for a while and the last I saw of him (we ended up starting without him), they were taking him off in the litter behind a snowmobile. (He ended up being OK, but just goes to show how several small things can add up to 1 big thing....)

A couple of "tricks" to help is if you can spend the night (or two) at elevation that would help. Also, make sure you're well hydrated the night before (this is mainly if you're having trouble sleeping.) Another thing that helps, is focus on breathing in (deeply) through the nose and out through the mouth. That is one I use while hiking at altitude, and may be difficult give the exertion levels needed in cycling. But I think there is a question of pacing in there too.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
L

My strange story:
I live at sea level. In Israel, there is only one mountain higher than 1000m (3000ft), and since it is quite far most cyclers climb it only very few times a year. Roads do not even cross the 900m.
Last year I cycled in Spain, quite a lot 😎 . On my first two day I cycled near Malaga, climbing only to quite the same levels as before. Then I cycled from Almeria at sea level through Puerto de la Ragua at 2000m (6000ft) and down on the other side. The next day I arrived in Granada (about 500m) and climed to Velleta (3400m, but I had to quit just under 3000m since it was getting late and cycling downhill in the dark :eek: ...).
So I ended up climbing 6000ft on one day and 7000ft on the next, with no ill effect whatsoever. The story would get even stranger if I'd tell you that I would never disqualify in races for EPO abuse since I am slightly anemic😄.
The only explanation I could come up with was that I never stayed high, but rather came down as soon as I got there (Still, climbing takes quite some time).

i climbed up Mount Haleakala on Maui last year. i started at sea level and ended at 10,000' above sea level. it was a 36 mile climb. took me about 4 1/2 hours with breaks at each hour.

up until 4,000', the pedaling was relatively easy. however, i started really feeling the lack of oxygen at about 6,000'. even though i was pacing myself and watching my heartrate, it began to climb from 140+ to 150+. by the time i got to 9,000', it was getting pretty ugly. any effort at all would take my heartrate to 165+ and i was struggling to find air.

the last few miles/1,000' were the toughest pedaling i've ever done.

tmctguer said:

i climbed up Mount Haleakala on Maui last year. i started at sea level and ended at 10,000' above sea level. it was a 36 mile climb. took me about 4 1/2 hours with breaks at each hour.

up until 4,000', the pedaling was relatively easy. however, i started really feeling the lack of oxygen at about 6,000'. even though i was pacing myself and watching my heartrate, it began to climb from 140+ to 150+. by the time i got to 9,000', it was getting pretty ugly. any effort at all would take my heartrate to 165+ and i was struggling to find air.

the last few miles/1,000' were the toughest pedaling i've ever done.

What's the elevation where you live? As I said, I didn't have any problems oxygen wise when I did it...

Big Kudos to both of you for climbing Haleakala!
Good to know that it wasn't just in my head. I don't think it would have been so noticeable/bothersome if I hadn't been putting out my max effort, but boy it did start to get to me. I actually noticed that my heart rate (and speed) dropped, but trying to pick up my pace to what I normally find to be a sustainable heart rate was a complete failure as I would just start to breathe so hard that I couldn't maintain it.

Now that I think about it we did another climb a couple of weeks ago that ended at 5200 feet (I just ran across someones web log who described it as 1/2 Haleakala -18 miles about 5,000 feet climb) and I don't remember having a hard time breathing near the top of that one. I do however remember experiencing a heart rate drop near the top without being able to pick up the pace very much like yesterday. It was a shorter distance with more elevation gain but, it was much cooler. It was pretty hot yesterday so there is a good chance that I was getting dehydrated near the top. I drank more than I normally do, but I looked like a human salt lick when I was done.

Eden said:

....I actually noticed that my heart rate (and speed) dropped, but trying to pick up my pace to what I normally find to be a sustainable heart rate was a complete failure as I would just start to breathe so hard that I couldn't maintain it.....

...I do however remember experiencing a heart rate drop near the top without being able to pick up the pace very much like yesterday....

How long were these rides (timewise)? Are you sure you aren't "bonking" instead of altitude? Are you eating/using sports drinks etc?

Just wondering,
L

Lonnie Utah said:

How long were these rides (timewise)? Are you sure you aren't "bonking" instead of altitude? Are you eating/using sports drinks etc?

Just wondering,
L

Don't think it was bonking. the 18 miler was 2 hours, the 25 miler (yesterday) was 2:12, both times I had GU's and Powebar drink with me. I find eating solid food difficult for this type of effort.

Eden said:

Don't think it was bonking. the 18 miler was 2 hours, the 25 miler (yesterday) was 2:12, both times I had GU's and Powebar drink with me. I find eating solid food difficult for this type of effort.

Ok, I don't think that's it either. You shouldn't be able to run your glycogen down that low in "only" 2 hours. Chalk it up to altitude....

to the question from lonnie from utah:

i live at sea level, about a mile from the pacific ocean in SoCal. i can say that my difficulty in climbing haleakala was not due to bonking or the grade of the climb (about 4%). it was lack of oxygen.

i plan to climb it again this november when i return to maui.

tmctguer said:

to the question from lonnie from utah:

i live at sea level, about a mile from the pacific ocean in SoCal. i can say that my difficulty in climbing haleakala was not due to bonking or the grade of the climb (about 4%). it was lack of oxygen.

i plan to climb it again this november when i return to maui.

Makes sense.

Lonnie Utah said:

Makes sense.

Michele Ferarri, whatever you think about him as a coach, is the worlds expert on climbing and altitude.

He says that above 3500 ft. altitude becomes progressively important in racing. Individuals vary a lot also he says in capacity to deal with it and recover. Lance was apparently very good at the higher altitudes even beyond his other attributes. But even Lance describeb the Alpe d'Huez TT 2004 as beginning to reall hurt after reaching a certain distance up the mountain due to elevation, and this is the greatest climber etc who knows his body well. His point was that the greatest time gaps, other things being equal, are easier to gain lower down because the strength drains at higher altitudes, harder to make a big extended effort at the very top.

I live at sea level and I recently did two climbs from sea level to 5200 ft. I can't say that I noticed the altitude change at all. I was tired near the top but 2 hours of climbing will do that to you.