Before Carbon

Quoted message said:

The material of good bicycles was steel and the Linth weight tool was
the drill to produce drillium.

http://www.velo-retro.com/peterjohnson.html

Just the same, these bicycles were at least as durable as the ones
sold now and the one in the picture is still working well after many
thousand miles.

Jobst Brandt

eh? the /only/ viable material for the common man back then was steel.
good aluminum welds outside of the aerospace world didn't exist. ti
was only ridden by the russians. and there's no way that "drillium" was
anywhere /near/ as fatigue resistant as the undrilled componentry. if
you want to admire the beauty of that machine, i'm with you, but you're
trying to claim superiority over a carbon bike with a minimum 2 to 4 lb
weight advantage, /and/ structural fatigue advantage, you're just plain
unhinged.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

http://www.velo-retro.com/peterjohnson.html

Good color. Is it as elegant in person?
What is with the champagne cork?

--
Michael Press

Quoted message said:

The material of good bicycles was steel and the Linth weight tool was
the drill to produce drillium.

http://www.velo-retro.com/peterjohnson.html

Holy [censored]! ;-)

DR

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

The material of good bicycles was steel and the Linth weight tool was
the drill to produce drillium.

Quoted message said:

there's no way that "drillium" was
anywhere /near/ as fatigue resistant as the undrilled componentry.

On the other hand, here is a drillium variant which I'm sure you could
get sold on:

http://tinyurl.com/27os5
http://tinyurl.com/9nz5r

Note: these links come in different versions with alternate titles, the
first being "Carbon Bicycle Frame Diary", the second "Why Carbon
Bicycle Frames Absorb Vibration Better In Real World Use". The texts
are the same in the two versions.

n

George King said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The material of good bicycles was steel and the Linth weight tool
was the drill to produce drillium.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there's no way that "drillium" was anywhere /near/ as fatigue
resistant as the undrilled componentry.

Quoted message said:

On the other hand, here is a drillium variant which I'm sure you
could get sold on:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/27os5
http://tinyurl.com/9nz5r

Quoted message said:

Note: these links come in different versions with alternate titles,
the first being "Carbon Bicycle Frame Diary", the second "Why Carbon
Bicycle Frames Absorb Vibration Better In Real World Use". The texts
are the same in the two versions.

Looks great. I'm ready to try it but, you first!

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

The material of good bicycles was steel and the Linth weight tool was
the drill to produce drillium.

http://www.velo-retro.com/peterjohnson.html

Just the same, these bicycles were at least as durable as the ones
sold now and the one in the picture is still working well after many
thousand miles.

Jobst Brandt

Nice sew-ups too.

41 says...

Quoted message said:

On the other hand, here is a drillium variant which I'm sure you could
get sold on:

http://tinyurl.com/27os5
http://tinyurl.com/9nz5r

Note: these links come in different versions with alternate titles, the
first being "Carbon Bicycle Frame Diary", the second "Why Carbon
Bicycle Frames Absorb Vibration Better In Real World Use". The texts
are the same in the two versions.

Darwin still hard at work I see.

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/27os5

"My God, man. Drilling holes in his head isn't the answer!"
Star Trek IV

More seriously, that's about the scariest thing I've seen on the 'net.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

George King writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a drillium variant

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/27os5
http://tinyurl.com/9nz5r

Quoted message said:

Note: these links come in different versions with alte rnate titles,
the first being "Carbon Bicycle Frame Diary", the second "Why Carbon
Bicycle Frames Absorb Vibration Better In Real World Use". The texts
are the same in the two versions.

Looks great. I'm ready to try it but, you first!

Oh no, after you!

Maybe Peter Johnson could hold the drill. From the looks of that frame
he is a real craftsman. Not to mention good with the drill too.

But I think there are others here who could get sold on this
technological development and who would be eager to get in line ahead
of us.

Quoted message said:

George King writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a drillium variant

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/27os5
http://tinyurl.com/9nz5r

Quoted message said:

Note: these links come in different versions with alte rnate titles,
the first being "Carbon Bicycle Frame Diary", the second "Why Carbon
Bicycle Frames Absorb Vibration Better In Real World Use". The texts
are the same in the two versions.

Looks great. I'm ready to try it but, you first!

Oh no, after you!

Maybe Peter Johnson could hold the drill. From the looks of that frame
he is a real craftsman. Not to mention good with the drill too.

But I think there are others here who could get sold on this
technological development and who would be eager to get in line ahead
of us.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/27os5

Quoted message said:

More seriously, that's about the scariest thing I've seen on the 'net.

The part I liked best was where he describes how he approached the idea
skeptically and researched it carefully to get the facts before
proceeding.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/27os5

Quoted message said:

More seriously, that's about the scariest thing I've seen on the 'net.

The part I liked best was where he describes how he approached the idea
skeptically and researched it carefully to get the facts before
proceeding.

Barra of France was building welded, oversized tubed aluminuim bikes
back in 1936,
tandems and single bikes, vertical drop outs. I handled a '36 Barra
frame recently
looks a lot like a Cannondale, oversized down tube, ovalized at the BB.
The biken had an aluminuim fork with a double plate crown, very cool.

Bikes are great, people are regularly reinventing the wheel.

Scott G.

Scott G.

Quoted message said:

Barra of France was building welded, oversized tubed aluminuim bikes
back in 1936,
tandems and single bikes, vertical drop outs. I handled a '36 Barra
frame recently
looks a lot like a Cannondale, oversized down tube, ovalized at the BB.
The biken had an aluminuim fork with a double plate crown, very cool.

Bikes are great, people are regularly reinventing the wheel.

Scott G.

Scott G.

thanks for pointing that out! of course, it's /possible/ to weld
aluminum with a gas torch, which is what had to be done back then, but
the problem is that welds are of much poorer quality due to much higher
inclusion counts, gas porosity, etc and consequently have highly
inferior fatigue properties. the alloys for the tube weren't great
welding candidates back then either. not to mention the fact that the
holder of the torch had to be amazingly skilled - aluminum is a great
conductor, so keeping the heat local enough to weld without having huge
chunks of molten metal fall from around the intended weld area takes
almost super-human powers!

that said, if you can post pics of the barra, that would be awesome.

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

Barra of France was building welded, oversized tubed aluminuim bikes
back in 1936,
tandems and single bikes, vertical drop outs. I handled a '36 Barra
frame recently
looks a lot like a Cannondale, oversized down tube, ovalized at the BB.
The biken had an aluminuim fork with a double plate crown, very cool.

Bikes are great, people are regularly reinventing the wheel.

Scott G.

Scott G.

thanks for pointing that out! of course, it's /possible/ to weld
aluminum with a gas torch, which is what had to be done back then, but
the problem is that welds are of much poorer quality due to much higher
inclusion counts, gas porosity, etc and consequently have highly
inferior fatigue properties. the alloys for the tube weren't great
welding candidates back then either. not to mention the fact that the
holder of the torch had to be amazingly skilled - aluminum is a great
conductor, so keeping the heat local enough to weld without having huge
chunks of molten metal fall from around the intended weld area takes
almost super-human powers!

that said, if you can post pics of the barra, that would be awesome.

Dear Jim,

Here are some 1940's Barra frame pictures:

http://www.blackbirdsf.org/caminade/similar.html

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

Barra of France was building welded, oversized tubed aluminuim bikes
back in 1936,
tandems and single bikes, vertical drop outs. I handled a '36 Barra
frame recently
looks a lot like a Cannondale, oversized down tube, ovalized at the BB.
The biken had an aluminuim fork with a double plate crown, very cool.

Bikes are great, people are regularly reinventing the wheel.

Scott G.

Scott G.

thanks for pointing that out! of course, it's /possible/ to weld
aluminum with a gas torch, which is what had to be done back then, but
the problem is that welds are of much poorer quality due to much higher
inclusion counts, gas porosity, etc and consequently have highly
inferior fatigue properties. the alloys for the tube weren't great
welding candidates back then either. not to mention the fact that the
holder of the torch had to be amazingly skilled - aluminum is a great
conductor, so keeping the heat local enough to weld without having huge
chunks of molten metal fall from around the intended weld area takes
almost super-human powers!

that said, if you can post pics of the barra, that would be awesome.

Dear Jim,

Here are some 1940's Barra frame pictures:

http://www.blackbirdsf.org/caminade/similar.html

Carl Fogel

truly impressive - vertical dropouts even! great find carl.
interesting how the other aluminum frames went to great lengths to avoid
welding completely though.

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

http://www.velo-retro.com/peterjohnson.html

Good color. Is it as elegant in person?
What is with the champagne cork?

It's an Australian/French bike, so it has a saddle with champagne corks on
it to keep the flies away.

Jasper