SOYLENT GREEN

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:58:45 -0700, "<RJ>" <[email hidden]>
connected the dots and wrote:

~We were watching a TV show about food shortages in Africa.
~
~They showed a woman boiling and mashing tree leaves to get some
nutrition.
~
~At some point they showed distribution of containers
~of soy flour, corn meal, flour, etc.
~That started the discussion at our house;
~
~If these people have water shortages, and fuel shortages,
~then what do you do with a sack of corn meal ?
~
~It would seeem that the UN (?) could come up with a standard
~for a "universal nutrition bar"..... ( granola bar ? )
~It would contain the ingredients for a reasonably healthy meal
~and the equivalent of a vitamin/mineral pill too.
~
~Eat it right out of the wrapper....
~Seems it would simplify things alot.
~
~Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
~so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....
~
~????
~<rj>

Because soy flour is a high-protein part of their usual diet, or
similar enoguh to their usual diet that they can make with it the
things they prefer to eat.

Also, soy flour is a whole heck of a lot cheaper than manufactured
food bars.

Especially in the Muslim areas of Africa, any overly processed food is
suspect as being not halal.

Too many non-common foods can cause major gastric distress.

Altho it's more work, people prefer to be as self-sufficient as
possible, and handing them prepared foods rather than foods that they
can prepare themselves, can lead to dependence.

just some reasons

And while soylent green was a complete nutritional bar, it would not
be halal, since humans are not halal, no matter how they're processed.

maixne in r

In article <[email hidden]>,

RJ said:

We were watching a TV show about food shortages in Africa.

They showed a woman boiling and mashing tree leaves to get some nutrition.

At some point they showed distribution of containers
of soy flour, corn meal, flour, etc.
That started the discussion at our house;

If these people have water shortages, and fuel shortages,
then what do you do with a sack of corn meal ?

It would seeem that the UN (?) could come up with a standard
for a "universal nutrition bar"..... ( granola bar ? )
It would contain the ingredients for a reasonably healthy meal
and the equivalent of a vitamin/mineral pill too.

Eat it right out of the wrapper....
Seems it would simplify things alot.

Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....

I doubt there is a way to pack all of a day's nutrients into a single
food package. I also would hope that the United Nations is more
interested in fostering a long term solution to starvation rather than a
short term intervention. Long term involves assisting the inhabitants of
those areas to become as self-sufficient as possible, but also meeting
their immediate needs.

In article <[email hidden]>,

RJ said:

We were watching a TV show about food shortages in Africa.

They showed a woman boiling and mashing tree leaves to get some nutrition.

At some point they showed distribution of containers
of soy flour, corn meal, flour, etc.
That started the discussion at our house;

If these people have water shortages, and fuel shortages,
then what do you do with a sack of corn meal ?

It would seeem that the UN (?) could come up with a standard
for a "universal nutrition bar"..... ( granola bar ? )
It would contain the ingredients for a reasonably healthy meal
and the equivalent of a vitamin/mineral pill too.

Eat it right out of the wrapper....
Seems it would simplify things alot.

Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....

I doubt there is a way to pack all of a day's nutrients into a single
food package. I also would hope that the United Nations is more
interested in fostering a long term solution to starvation rather than a
short term intervention. Long term involves assisting the inhabitants of
those areas to become as self-sufficient as possible, but also meeting
their immediate needs.

RJ said:

It would seeem that the UN (?) could come up with a standard
for a "universal nutrition bar"..... ( granola bar ? )
It would contain the ingredients for a reasonably healthy meal
and the equivalent of a vitamin/mineral pill too.

Heh. Or they could come to Chicawgo for some really bad "Soylent Green"
Chinese food (I posted this last night on www.chowhound.com ):

http://www.chowhound.com/midwest/boards/chicago/messages/62779.html

Chowhound's Chicago Area Message Board

Subject: Re(3): Need Chinese Take out/Delivery!
Name: GM
Posted: August 08, 2005 at 02:32:39

In Reply To: Re(2): Need Chinese Take out/Delivery!
Posted by nancy on August 04, 2005 at 18:09:01

Message:

"Far East is just terrible.

I ordered from them recently (after reading the positive reviews on
www.metromix.com). If I'm ordering from a new Chinese place I primarily
order my "control" dishes, e.g. egg rolls, egg foo yung, sweet 'n sour
pork, chop suey... I figure if they can do these old basics decently
the rest of the stuff will be okay...

In this case everything was *absolutely* bland and tasteless and
colorless, everything had the taste and consistency of wallpaper paste.
The vegetables (mostly celery and carrots) had not been chopped, they
had obviously been done in a food processer. I had to apply TONS of
tabasco and soy sauce and salt and pepper to make it somewhat edible.
True, the portions were large, but BLECH...

Years ago when the place had a dining room it was pretty good, don't
know what happened. They apparently had a demanding Jewish clientele
from the immediate Sheridan Road neighborhood, always a good sign. But
now they serve stuff that would be perfectly at home in a _Soylent
Green_ world...

Another place I used to like was New Peking at B'way and Briar, but
they've gone real downhill too. Cheap vegetables, grey and gristly
meat, tasteless brown sauce, just insipid. For those (rather high)
prices I expect more than coarsely - chopped onions and carrots for
veg, and meat that doesn't look like it's left over from a 1947 Moscow
factory canteen. The last time I ordered from them some of the food
smelled like *urine*...go figure :-|

I recently tried a place called China Kitchen on Clark. Just picked it
out of the blue. The food was not spectacular, but it was fairly good.
They didn't stint on the veg, e.g. there was plenty of broccoli, red
and green bell pepper, mushrooms, miniature corn, etc. all crisply
cooked. The meat was decent, portions large and prices fair. Pretty
tasty and nicely spiced. I'd rate the place a "dependable standby".
I'll order again from them:

China Kitchen
3463 N. Clark
773.525.6026

I simply don't understand why some Chinese places can be so awful. We
aren't Podunk, there is plenty of competition in our affluent nabe and
elsewhere (good Chinese, Thai, Japanese, etc.). These lousy places
might have been acceptable in "New Town" (the old name of East
Lakeview) c. 1975 when palates weren't so sophisticated, but there's NO
excuse for such culinary indifference by these resto owners now.

I second another poster's recommendation of the Peking on
Halsted/Belmont...

--
Best
Greg"

"Gregory Morrow" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Heh. Or they could come to Chicawgo for some really bad "Soylent Green"
Chinese food (I posted this last night on www.chowhound.com ):

Ugh. You would think in a city like Chicago, you'd get some
decent Chinese food takeout. There isn't any around here. Well,
I can think of one place that might be good, but it's a hassle to get
there and they don't deliver. Hmm, both my car and I could use
to go for a spin, maybe I'll give them a shot. I sure can't stand the
place in town.

nancy

Nancy Young said:

"Gregory Morrow" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Heh. Or they could come to Chicawgo for some really bad "Soylent Green"
Chinese food (I posted this last night on www.chowhound.com ):

Ugh. You would think in a city like Chicago, you'd get some
decent Chinese food takeout. There isn't any around here. Well,
I can think of one place that might be good, but it's a hassle to get
there and they don't deliver. Hmm, both my car and I could use
to go for a spin, maybe I'll give them a shot. I sure can't stand the
place in town.

We do have plenty of great Chinese places (we have a big Chinatown,
too) but these places I mentioned are unsurpassed for sheer awfulness.
It boggles the imagination as to how they keep in business, especially
in this neighborhood. I mean hey, how difficult is to make decent
carry - out Chinese food if you have the proper cooking
facilities...and it's not like the cooks at these bad places are
Peruvian or something, they *are* Chinese...and it's a fairly
ubiquitous coozine, it's not newly - arrived and exotic. Chun King was
making chop suey in a can in 1955 or so, after all...

Theze daze I'd say in my nabe the most popular Asian cuisine is Thai,
followed by Japanese, "Pan - Asian", and then Korean. Chinese is dead
last. Maybe the reason is because these few crummy places give people
a bad taste for all Chinese food. Or tastes change, whatever.

--
Best
Greg

Nancy Young said:

"Gregory Morrow" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Heh. Or they could come to Chicawgo for some really bad "Soylent Green"
Chinese food (I posted this last night on www.chowhound.com ):

Ugh. You would think in a city like Chicago, you'd get some
decent Chinese food takeout. There isn't any around here. Well,
I can think of one place that might be good, but it's a hassle to get
there and they don't deliver. Hmm, both my car and I could use
to go for a spin, maybe I'll give them a shot. I sure can't stand the
place in town.

We do have plenty of great Chinese places (we have a big Chinatown,
too) but these places I mentioned are unsurpassed for sheer awfulness.
It boggles the imagination as to how they keep in business, especially
in this neighborhood. I mean hey, how difficult is to make decent
carry - out Chinese food if you have the proper cooking
facilities...and it's not like the cooks at these bad places are
Peruvian or something, they *are* Chinese...and it's a fairly
ubiquitous coozine, it's not newly - arrived and exotic. Chun King was
making chop suey in a can in 1955 or so, after all...

Theze daze I'd say in my nabe the most popular Asian cuisine is Thai,
followed by Japanese, "Pan - Asian", and then Korean. Chinese is dead
last. Maybe the reason is because these few crummy places give people
a bad taste for all Chinese food. Or tastes change, whatever.

--
Best
Greg

"<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

We were watching a TV show about food shortages in Africa.

They showed a woman boiling and mashing tree leaves to get some nutrition.

At some point they showed distribution of containers
of soy flour, corn meal, flour, etc.
That started the discussion at our house;

If these people have water shortages, and fuel shortages,
then what do you do with a sack of corn meal ?

It would seeem that the UN (?) could come up with a standard
for a "universal nutrition bar"..... ( granola bar ? )
It would contain the ingredients for a reasonably healthy meal
and the equivalent of a vitamin/mineral pill too.

Eat it right out of the wrapper....
Seems it would simplify things alot.

Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....

????
<rj>

I think you have a Jim dandy idea but thee are several problems.

1. The need for famine supplies is a variable from time to time, as example
the Tsunami instant & unanticipated relief needs.
2. The raw materials are usually purchased on the open market or donated from
surpluses.
3. What is the manufacturing devaluation - How much does the bar cost to
Mfg.?
4. How many more people can one feed for that factor in # 3.
5. What is the shelf life of the product?
6. Who pays for storage? and where it is stored? How do you get it to the
people?
7. Once you get it to the people will they know what to do with it? No joke
here.

I'm sure there is lots more.

Dimitri

"<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

We were watching a TV show about food shortages in Africa.

They showed a woman boiling and mashing tree leaves to get some nutrition.

At some point they showed distribution of containers
of soy flour, corn meal, flour, etc.
That started the discussion at our house;

If these people have water shortages, and fuel shortages,
then what do you do with a sack of corn meal ?

It would seeem that the UN (?) could come up with a standard
for a "universal nutrition bar"..... ( granola bar ? )
It would contain the ingredients for a reasonably healthy meal
and the equivalent of a vitamin/mineral pill too.

Eat it right out of the wrapper....
Seems it would simplify things alot.

Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....

????
<rj>

I think you have a Jim dandy idea but thee are several problems.

1. The need for famine supplies is a variable from time to time, as example
the Tsunami instant & unanticipated relief needs.
2. The raw materials are usually purchased on the open market or donated from
surpluses.
3. What is the manufacturing devaluation - How much does the bar cost to
Mfg.?
4. How many more people can one feed for that factor in # 3.
5. What is the shelf life of the product?
6. Who pays for storage? and where it is stored? How do you get it to the
people?
7. Once you get it to the people will they know what to do with it? No joke
here.

I'm sure there is lots more.

Dimitri

Quoted post said:

We were watching a TV show about food shortages in Africa.

They showed a woman boiling and mashing tree leaves to get some nutrition.

At some point they showed distribution of containers
of soy flour, corn meal, flour, etc.
That started the discussion at our house;

If these people have water shortages, and fuel shortages,
then what do you do with a sack of corn meal ?

It would seeem that the UN (?) could come up with a standard
for a "universal nutrition bar"..... ( granola bar ? )
It would contain the ingredients for a reasonably healthy meal
and the equivalent of a vitamin/mineral pill too.

Eat it right out of the wrapper....
Seems it would simplify things alot.

Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....

????
<rj>

Sorry to say but that food aid is often a means of dumping staples that
couldn't be sold in the home country. As in the case a couple of years
ago with American maize/corn going to Africa (forgot which country).
Although only about 30 percent of the US maize crop is genetically
engineered/biotech, all of the maize sent to that African country was
biotech.
If it doesn't sell at home, give it away and take the tax deduction.

Quoted post said:

We were watching a TV show about food shortages in Africa.

They showed a woman boiling and mashing tree leaves to get some nutrition.

At some point they showed distribution of containers
of soy flour, corn meal, flour, etc.
That started the discussion at our house;

If these people have water shortages, and fuel shortages,
then what do you do with a sack of corn meal ?

It would seeem that the UN (?) could come up with a standard
for a "universal nutrition bar"..... ( granola bar ? )
It would contain the ingredients for a reasonably healthy meal
and the equivalent of a vitamin/mineral pill too.

Eat it right out of the wrapper....
Seems it would simplify things alot.

Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....

????
<rj>

Sorry to say but that food aid is often a means of dumping staples that
couldn't be sold in the home country. As in the case a couple of years
ago with American maize/corn going to Africa (forgot which country).
Although only about 30 percent of the US maize crop is genetically
engineered/biotech, all of the maize sent to that African country was
biotech.
If it doesn't sell at home, give it away and take the tax deduction.

"Nancy Young" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Ugh. You would think in a city like Chicago, you'd get some
decent Chinese food takeout. There isn't any around here. Well,
I can think of one place that might be good, but it's a hassle to get
there and they don't deliver. Hmm, both my car and I could use
to go for a spin, maybe I'll give them a shot. I sure can't stand the
place in town.

Well, it turned out really well. Much more expensive, percentage
wise, but the food was so much better than the usual stuff they buy
by the bucket. Even the munchie crunchies were big and fresh and
excellent (fried noodles). I'll be going back there again, that's for
sure. Just not every time we get chinese food ... it was quite a
bit farther than I thought.

nancy

"Nancy Young" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Ugh. You would think in a city like Chicago, you'd get some
decent Chinese food takeout. There isn't any around here. Well,
I can think of one place that might be good, but it's a hassle to get
there and they don't deliver. Hmm, both my car and I could use
to go for a spin, maybe I'll give them a shot. I sure can't stand the
place in town.

Well, it turned out really well. Much more expensive, percentage
wise, but the food was so much better than the usual stuff they buy
by the bucket. Even the munchie crunchies were big and fresh and
excellent (fried noodles). I'll be going back there again, that's for
sure. Just not every time we get chinese food ... it was quite a
bit farther than I thought.

nancy

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 10:57:36 -0400, Stan Horwitz <[email hidden]>
connected the dots and wrote:

~In article <[email hidden]>,
~ "<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote:
~
~> We were watching a TV show about food shortages in Africa.
~>
~> They showed a woman boiling and mashing tree leaves to get some
nutrition.
~>
~> At some point they showed distribution of containers
~> of soy flour, corn meal, flour, etc.
~> That started the discussion at our house;
~>
~> If these people have water shortages, and fuel shortages,
~> then what do you do with a sack of corn meal ?
~>
~> It would seeem that the UN (?) could come up with a standard
~> for a "universal nutrition bar"..... ( granola bar ? )
~> It would contain the ingredients for a reasonably healthy meal
~> and the equivalent of a vitamin/mineral pill too.
~>
~> Eat it right out of the wrapper....
~> Seems it would simplify things alot.
~>
~> Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
~> so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....
~
~
~I doubt there is a way to pack all of a day's nutrients into a single
~food package. I also would hope that the United Nations is more
~interested in fostering a long term solution to starvation rather
than a
~short term intervention. Long term involves assisting the inhabitants
of
~those areas to become as self-sufficient as possible, but also
meeting
~their immediate needs.

Interesting article in Science News this week, about starvation and
schizophrenia. Seems if the mother conceives during a famine, the
child has double the chance of presenting symptoms of schizophrenia
than the usual (2% vs 1%). If Mom's nutrition is not good during the
first three months, the chances are greater. They are investigating
whether folic acid supplements might help.

maxine in ri

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 10:57:36 -0400, Stan Horwitz <[email hidden]>
connected the dots and wrote:

~In article <[email hidden]>,
~ "<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote:
~
~> We were watching a TV show about food shortages in Africa.
~>
~> They showed a woman boiling and mashing tree leaves to get some
nutrition.
~>
~> At some point they showed distribution of containers
~> of soy flour, corn meal, flour, etc.
~> That started the discussion at our house;
~>
~> If these people have water shortages, and fuel shortages,
~> then what do you do with a sack of corn meal ?
~>
~> It would seeem that the UN (?) could come up with a standard
~> for a "universal nutrition bar"..... ( granola bar ? )
~> It would contain the ingredients for a reasonably healthy meal
~> and the equivalent of a vitamin/mineral pill too.
~>
~> Eat it right out of the wrapper....
~> Seems it would simplify things alot.
~>
~> Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
~> so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....
~
~
~I doubt there is a way to pack all of a day's nutrients into a single
~food package. I also would hope that the United Nations is more
~interested in fostering a long term solution to starvation rather
than a
~short term intervention. Long term involves assisting the inhabitants
of
~those areas to become as self-sufficient as possible, but also
meeting
~their immediate needs.

Interesting article in Science News this week, about starvation and
schizophrenia. Seems if the mother conceives during a famine, the
child has double the chance of presenting symptoms of schizophrenia
than the usual (2% vs 1%). If Mom's nutrition is not good during the
first three months, the chances are greater. They are investigating
whether folic acid supplements might help.

maxine in ri

"<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Eat it right out of the wrapper....
Seems it would simplify things alot.

Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....

I suppose it hasn't occurred to you that food is one of the most
culturally based items in daily demand and that what is appropriate for
a Norf Amerigovespuccilandian such as yourself isn't necessarily
acceptable to a poor goat-herder in Ethiopia.

Perhaps you shuld try living on a bag of soy flour...

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

"<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Eat it right out of the wrapper....
Seems it would simplify things alot.

Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....

I suppose it hasn't occurred to you that food is one of the most
culturally based items in daily demand and that what is appropriate for
a Norf Amerigovespuccilandian such as yourself isn't necessarily
acceptable to a poor goat-herder in Ethiopia.

Perhaps you shuld try living on a bag of soy flour...

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:20:53 -0500, Michel Boucher <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Eat it right out of the wrapper....
Seems it would simplify things alot.

Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....

I suppose it hasn't occurred to you that food is one of the most
culturally based items in daily demand and that what is appropriate for
a Norf Amerigovespuccilandian such as yourself isn't necessarily
acceptable to a poor goat-herder in Ethiopia.

Perhaps you shuld try living on a bag of soy flour...

Firstly,
I doubt that I would even know
what to do with a bag of soy flour.

Secondly;
If you're starving, and reduced to trying to eat "boiled leaves"
I don't think you'd turn down the equivalent of a Granola Bar.

Thirdly;
Wouldn't a "nutrition bar", complete with RDA vitamins/minerals
be useful in temporary disaster situations ?
Certainly sounds alot more nutritious than "a sack o' soy flour"

<rj>

"<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course, I'm not a hi-paid UN official,
so there must be a reason for "a bag of soy flour" instead....

I suppose it hasn't occurred to you that food is one of the most
culturally based items in daily demand and that what is
appropriate for a Norf Amerigovespuccilandian such as yourself
isn't necessarily acceptable to a poor goat-herder in Ethiopia.

Perhaps you shuld try living on a bag of soy flour...

Firstly, I doubt that I would even know
what to do with a bag of soy flour.

And you don't see the irony in what you just said?

Quoted message said:

Secondly;
If you're starving, and reduced to trying to eat "boiled leaves"
I don't think you'd turn down the equivalent of a Granola Bar.

Really? If you were starving and they sent you soy flour, would you
be prepared to eat it?

Quoted message said:

Thirdly;
Wouldn't a "nutrition bar", complete with RDA vitamins/minerals
be useful in temporary disaster situations ?
Certainly sounds alot more nutritious than "a sack o' soy flour"

For you it does...hell, I'm surprised TPTB haven't suggested sending
surplus cheese to China or pork rinds to Pakistan... When there was
an earthquake in Guatemala some years ago, some of the emergency
goods they got were corrugated iron roofs and blankets, neither of
which they could use. I think it was about that time that aid
agencies started paying attention to local culture. Too bad they
didn't do it earlier...could have prevented the Sepoy rebellion.

By the way, soy flour is very nutritious, and it may not be their
first choice either, but it's one that fits their eating pattern.

If you think people will eat "anything" when they're hungry, you're
wrong. Obviously, you've adopted this notion that food is a constant
when it is in fact, of all the human artefacts, the most inconstant
one. Each person within one culture cooks the "same" meal
differently than everyone else within that culture. So if the
differences within a culture are given to strong variations, and each
culture cooks things differently from every other culture...do you
get the point?

Power bars may be YOUR solution. Fine. You buy them, you go feed it
to them. Come back and report. And at some point, try something
made with soy flour.

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot