Yet another thread on chain cleaning

After-thought:

If I use something like White Spirit I can just do a few rinses with that then let the chain dry, as
opposed to rinsing it with water.

asqui' may have said:

I had a rummage around the garage and found: Mineralised Methylated Spirit (Funky purple colour!)
White Spirit 70% Isopropyl Alcohol

Which one of these would be the best to pour into the bottle and shake occasionally to get the
chain clean? I plan to leave it on my desk for a few hours and give it a vigorous shake every now
and then.

The third one's great for removing water, not much good for anything else I'm aware of in a bike
application.

The first is mostly what we Yanks call "Denatured alcohol"; once again, great for removing water,
not much good for chains otherwise. The "mineralised" term is unfamiliar, though; perhaps they've
blended it with something. I'd ignore this one.

The second is, if I recall correctly, a rough equivalent of what is referred to as "mineral spirits"
here in the US; colorless, with a petroleum-family odor, and about the viscosity of water. That's
the stuff to use. It dissolves oil deposits readily, and evaporates cleanly.

Quoted message said:

Other things I can think of to use are: Fairy dishwashing liquid (can't see this working too well)

There are times when it could be the right thing, but I don't think this is it.

Quoted message said:

Dishwashing-machine powder (I'm wary of this stuff ever since it ate pits into the bottom of a pan
when left overnight in the sink)

It has its uses, but the most proper ones in my opinion involve the use of the associated appliance.
(Have you considered just tossing the chain in with the next load of dishes? There have been reports
thatthis works...)

Quoted message said:

coca cola (with all this whining about how it's so acidic, I figure it might do some good. probably
too much sugar and not enough chemicals capable of breaking down the grease though.)

The amount of phosphoric and citric acid in Coke is insufficient to be significant. You're
presumably not trying to remove corrosion anyway, which is what the acids are better suited to
accomplish.

Quoted message said:

Are there any precautions? Is it posible to "over-do it" with any of these chemicals? (Aside from
the dishwashing-machine powder)

The white spirits have no exposure time factor. the methylated and isporopyl alcohols could both
have substantial amounts of water in them, so it would be best to avoid them. The detergents are all
used with water; is this a major clue about exposure time?

Quoted message said:

I plan on soaking it for a couple of hours with frequent agitation, then pouring out whatever I'm
using into a jar for reuse,

Good plan so far, if using the WS.

Quoted message said:

and filling the bottle with water and shaking vigorously for a while, maybe changing the water a
few times to make sure I clean out all of the cleaning chemicals.

Counterproductive with the WS solvent. Just take the chain out, wipe it off, let it dry for a short
while, and lube it.

Quoted message said:

Then drying it with a rag and leaving it out to dry overnight before putting it back on the
bike and aplying PTFE lubricant with a narrow tube, letting it work its way in, then wiping
down with a rag.

How does that sound?

I will note that my former contacts at DuPont were, without exception, less than complimentary about
the various PTFE-doped lubricant products on the retail market. PTFE is a generic term for the same
stuff as DuPont's Teflon. It does have valid applications as a lubrication layer, but as far as the
people at DuPont were concerned, the majority of the *consumer* products on the market which
incorporated it were simple frauds. DuPont did the early work with the stuff, they discovered it
properties and usefulness, and in heir own plants, they don't use it for a spray or oil-carried
lubricant. If the oil base that the chain lube contains is a good lube, then the presence of the
PTFE is certainly going to do no harm; the stuff's amazingly inert at common temps. But it will
*not* remain in place between loaded surfaces without a mechanical retaining method of some sort, so
it's unlikely to do very much on a chain.

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asqui said:

I had a rummage around the garage and found: Mineralised Methylated Spirit (Funky purple colour!)
White Spirit 70% Isopropyl Alcohol

Which one of these would be the best to pour into the bottle and shake occasionally to get the
chain clean? I plan to leave it on my desk for a few hours and give it a vigorous shake every now
and then.

Everybody settles on their own method after awhile.

I favor taking the chain off every 500 miles or so and soaking it for a few hours in a solution of
water and Simple Green, a citrus-based nontoxic degreaser/cleaner. I shake the container once or
twice, or not at all, the time seems to be more important than the agitation.

I then take a toothbrush and using the leftover solution give the thing a quick scrub in the work
basin. Rinse with hot water, dry with a rag, hang it up for a couple of hours or overnight, then put
it on the bike and lube.

It's probably overkill but I like having everything perfectly clean rather than doing a partial job.
I only do this when I have a chance to give the bike a full cleaning where I get the gunk off the
chainrings, cogs and pulleys.

If they are still dirty they soil the chain quickly; in that case I just clean the chain as best I
can on the bike with new lube and a rag.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dishwashing-machine powder (I'm wary of this stuff ever since it ate pits into the bottom of a
pan when left overnight in the sink)

It has its uses, but the most proper ones in my opinion involve the use of the associated
appliance. (Have you considered just tossing the chain in with the next load of dishes? There have
been reports thatthis works...)

Yeah, I did read the thread on here about that a couple of days ago, but I really think my parental
units would go haywire if I even suggested it 🙁

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and filling the bottle with water and shaking vigorously for a while, maybe changing the water a
few times to make sure I clean out all of the cleaning chemicals.

Counterproductive with the WS solvent. Just take the chain out, wipe it off, let it dry for a
short while, and lube it.

Yeah, I realised that rinsing with water was a bit silly a short while after submitting the original
post. Is it alright to leave it overnight to make sure all of the WS evaporates before lubing? Or is
it going to start rusting instantaneously if left without lube...?

Quoted message said:

I will note that my former contacts at DuPont were, without exception, less than complimentary
about the various PTFE-doped lubricant products on the retail market. PTFE is a generic term for
the same stuff as DuPont's Teflon. It does have valid applications as a lubrication layer, but as
far as the people at DuPont were concerned, the majority of the *consumer* products on the market
which incorporated it were simple frauds. DuPont did the early work with the stuff, they
discovered it properties and usefulness, and in heir own plants, they don't use it for a spray or
oil-carried lubricant. If the oil base that the chain lube contains is a good lube, then the
presence of the PTFE is certainly going to do no harm; the stuff's amazingly inert at common
temps. But it will *not* remain in place between loaded surfaces without a mechanical retaining
method of some sort, so it's unlikely to do very much on a chain.

So basically I have some spray-lube in a can which may or may not work well but the PTFE content is
completely irrelevant and unlikely to make any difference?

Thanks for your help, Dani.

asqui' may have said:

Yeah, I realised that rinsing with water was a bit silly a short while after submitting the
original post. Is it alright to leave it overnight to make sure all of the WS evaporates before
lubing? Or is it going to start rusting instantaneously if left without lube...?

It should not be a problem, in my experience.

Quoted message said:

So basically I have some spray-lube in a can which may or may not work well but the PTFE content is
completely irrelevant and unlikely to make any difference?

Sadly, that's their conclusion, and I have to say that I have found no reason to disagree with them.
Nor have the Attorney General's offices of several of the US States, where the sellers of
PTFE-containing engine oil additives have been taken to court over their extravagant claims about
their products...and have, thus far, eventually lost in every case that I've seen. My take on your
particular lube is this; if the stuff's working well, use it anyway. It would not be the first time
that someone had marketed a validly useful item using a bogus additive as a flashy come-on.

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On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:35:03 +0000 (UTC), asqui <[email hidden]> wrote: <long rant and
question snipped>

Am I the only one who'd rather spend $25 on a new chain once every couple years, and a new cassette
every other chain, than spend an hour cleaning my chain for every 2 hours I spend riding?

I clean my chain when I think it's full of crud, or when I'm cleaning the whole bike. Other than
that, I load it up with chain lube every few rides; it never squeaks, and my drivetrain lasts as
long as anybody else's.

At least, this has been the case with my badly abused mountain bike. I haven't had road bikes long
enough to know.

I've got better things to do than clean my chain every day. Things such as offending people on
newsfroups...

Quoted message said:

Thanks a lot, Dani

--
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Rick Onanian may have said:

I've got better things to do than clean my chain every day. Things such as offending people on
newsfroups...

Some people may have have...

- an inside parking place in which they must have a clean chain or risk enraging The Gods, or
- time to engage in such things, and the willingsness or personally imposed imperative to do so, or
- a cleanliness fetish, or
- a bike that they take pride in, to the point of wanting to keep it in spanking clean condition
all the time, or
- a complete lack of ability to ignore small glitches, or
- nothing with a higher priority that would keep them from cleaning their chain at that time[1], or
- some other reason to want to do this sort of thing.

And, of course, there are folks who do it because the people with the chain fetishes told them it
was a good idea...and the list still grows.

I clean mine as I acquire used bikes, as I notice them getting really cruddy, and as time permits.
The last time that I actually *wore out* a chain was in (if I recall correctly) 1971. On the other
hand, the last time I *replaced* a chain was a couple of months ago, at aquisition of a used bike
that had pretty clearly been ridden hard and put up wet....literally.

[1] depending upon the bike owner involved, this could include watching The Simpsons on TV.

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If it needs the toothbrush, I figure, then there's still grit inside.

With repeated immersion, one can see when the grit stops coming out. I can't think of any other way
to know that.

After seeing that, I can't imagine that anything else works.

Doug

Eddiefel <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

asqui said:

I had a rummage around the garage and found: Mineralised Methylated Spirit (Funky purple
colour!) White Spirit 70% Isopropyl Alcohol

Which one of these would be the best to pour into the bottle and shake occasionally to get the
chain clean? I plan to leave it on my desk for a few hours and give it a vigorous shake every
now and then.

Everybody settles on their own method after awhile.

I favor taking the chain off every 500 miles or so and soaking it for a few hours in a solution of
water and Simple Green, a citrus-based nontoxic degreaser/cleaner. I shake the container once or
twice, or not at all, the time seems to be more important than the agitation.

I then take a toothbrush and using the leftover solution give the thing a quick scrub in the work
basin. Rinse with hot water, dry with a rag, hang it up for a couple of hours or overnight, then
put it on the bike and lube.

It's probably overkill but I like having everything perfectly clean rather than doing a partial
job. I only do this when I have a chance to give the bike a full cleaning where I get the gunk off
the chainrings, cogs and pulleys.

If they are still dirty they soil the chain quickly; in that case I just clean the chain as best I
can on the bike with new lube and a rag.

snip

Quoted message said:

Are there any precautions? Is it posible to "over-do it" with any of these chemicals? (Aside from
the dishwashing-machine powder)

I plan on soaking it for a couple of hours with frequent agitation, then pouring out whatever
I'm using into a jar for reuse, and filling the bottle with water and shaking vigorously for a
while, maybe changing the water a few times to make sure I clean out all of the cleaning
chemicals. Then drying it with a rag and leaving it out to dry overnight before putting it back
on the bike and aplying PTFE lubricant with a narrow tube, letting it work its way in, then
wiping down with a rag.

How does that sound?

Thanks a lot, Dani

I do not believe in using volatile solvents unless it is absolutely necessary. Detergents and citrus
cleaners are inexpensive, work very well for cleaning chains and are easier on you and the
environment.

I wanted to see if my chain cleaning ritual actually cleaned the chain deep down around the pins, so
here is what I did: I removed the dirty chain then re-installed the quick link and held it in place
with a twisted piece of soft wire. This is to prevent the link from opening with no tension on the
chain. Then I did my usual cleansing ritual: put chain in bottle, add hot water plus Simple Green,
cap, shake, hold for 15 minutes or longer, empty, repeat two or three times until the liquid does
not change color, rinse with hot water, and dry with a hot air gun (a hair dryer works, but is
slower.) Then I opened the quick link to see if it was clean inside. It was. The pins were bright
and shiny as were the insides of the side plates. The exposed ends of the inner links and the drawn
bushings for the pins were also clean inside and out.

So, I'm convinced that my easy, no volatile solvent method is fast and effective. Much of the Simple
Green can be re-used if it is saved. Just allow the gunk to settle and decant the clean cleaner.

For lube, I've been using 20W 50 motor oil. It works very well and lasts for hundreds of miles
(probably much longer although I clean the chain every 200 to 500 hundred miles so I don't know.)
The motor oil is messy. No matter how many times I wipe the chain after applying the oil, I see a
fine mist of oil on my back rim, especially for the first 50 miles or so. Also, the oil attracts
dirt. I wipe the chain frequently, but I do not add more lube between cleanings. Under this method,
the chain never, never squeaks and always shifts smoothly. There is no measurable chain wear after
slightly less then 2K miles on the chain.

I noticed that the lube that comes on new SRAM chains feels thick and sticky. I also notice that it
lasts forever and it attracts less dirt then the motor oil. I found this in a head to head
comparison as my wife has the new SRAM chain and we ride together. Although it seems
counterintuitive, it has led me to try a thicker, sticker lube; chain saw bar oil. I have not used
it enough to form an opinion yet.

Sheldon Brown suggested the chain-in-the-bottle cleaning method I use. Jobst Brandt suggested the
lubing method.

Steve Shapiro [email hidden]

Steve Shapiro said:

I do not believe in using volatile solvents unless it is absolutely necessary. Detergents and
citrus cleaners are inexpensive, work very well for cleaning chains and are easier on you and the
environment.

Hmmm, I hadn't considered the environmental aspect. I get the impression that these commercial
products are a bit overpriced. I haven't seen "Simple Green" in any uk retail stores or online
stores so I don't know how much it costs.

Quoted message said:

I wanted to see if my chain cleaning ritual actually cleaned the chain deep down around the pins,
so here is what I did: I removed the dirty chain then re-installed the quick link and held it in
place with a twisted piece of soft wire. This is to prevent the link from opening with no tension
on the chain. Then I did my usual cleansing ritual: put chain in bottle, add hot water plus Simple
Green, cap, shake, hold for 15 minutes or longer, empty, repeat two or three times until the
liquid does not change color, rinse with hot water, and dry with a hot air gun (a hair dryer
works, but is slower.) Then I opened the quick link to see if it was clean inside. It was. The
pins were bright and shiny as were the insides of the side plates. The exposed ends of the inner
links and the drawn bushings for the pins were also clean inside and out.

Yeah, the SRAM PowerLink is cleverly designed not to come apart unless you want it to so I just
cleaned the chain as a complete loop then did much the same as you and opened the PowerLink to
inspect the squeaky clean inside of the roller and "bushing". I was very impressed, but disappointed
at how quickly it has become grimy in there again. 🙁

[...]

Quoted message said:

For lube, I've been using 20W 50 motor oil. It works very well and lasts for hundreds of miles
(probably much longer although I clean the chain every 200 to 500 hundred miles so I don't know.)
The motor oil is messy. No matter how many times I wipe the chain after applying the oil, I see a
fine mist of oil on my back rim, especially for the first 50 miles or so. Also, the oil attracts
dirt. I wipe the chain frequently, but I do not add more lube between cleanings. Under this
method, the chain never, never squeaks and always shifts smoothly. There is no measurable chain
wear after slightly less then 2K miles on the chain.

!!! Now this is why I am so shocked to see my chain wearing so rapidly, when
someone tells me that they have no measurable wear with 2000 miles on, when using heavy oil for
lubrication!

Quoted message said:

I noticed that the lube that comes on new SRAM chains feels thick and sticky. I also notice that
it lasts forever and it attracts less dirt then the motor oil. I found this in a head to head
comparison as my wife has the new SRAM chain and we ride together. Although it seems
counterintuitive, it has led me to try a thicker, sticker lube; chain saw bar oil. I have not used
it enough to form an opinion yet.

Hmmm, well I'm afraid to say that any polluted traces of the original lubricant are now nowhere to
be seen on my chain. If you like it so much why don't you find out what it is and buy yourself an
industrial size vat of it from SRAM or their supplier? 🙂

Quoted message said:

Sheldon Brown suggested the chain-in-the-bottle cleaning method I use. Jobst Brandt suggested the
lubing method.

The bottle method works well indeed. I'll look into more environmentally friendly alternatives to
White Spirit. By the way, why is WS bad for the environment? Sorry to be ignorant...

Dani

Quoted message said:

Steve Shapiro [email hidden]

asqui' may have said:

I didn't bother saving the previous dirty WS because I figured the grease was dissolved in it and
would stay dissolved forever. The last one I did leave in the bottle to use as the first rinse
next time.

Don't discard it. Let it sit and the particulates will settle out, leaving it stained but quite
useful. Oil residue from used spirits will do no harm, since it will be the same stuff that was
lubricating the chain to begin with, and the oil film will be really thin unless the spirits have
been used for scores of cleanings. You want to set the bottle where it can stand at an angle to
allow the solids to settle into one corner so that you can pour off the spirit cleanly.

Quoted message said:

I cleaned the sprockets and chainrings, put it back on, gave it a liberal spray of lube (I believe
it is called Super Spray Lube or something, and apparently it is recommended my the British Cycling
Federation... so I guess it can't be that bad, even if the PTFE claims are bogus.)

As stated, many good products have been promoted similarly; the Pythons lampooned the practice at
least once.

Quoted message said:

It would appear that it is getting rather close to half a rivet width off at the 12 inch mark.
(When at full tension from the derailer) How can this be???

Some call it "stretch", those who have taken the chains apart and examined them call it "wear". Half
a rivet is about 1.5mm, which is not at the replacement mark by some standards. I'd have no qualms
about leaving that one in service.

Quoted message said:

I checked the chain on my old bike (I cringed when I saw its state... bearing in mind it was left
in a relatively "clean" condition for storage) It had barely any stretch, and I never cleaned that
thing at all, with anything, and lubricated it with WD-40 (*cringe*) then later Halfords chain wax.
I have done ~1,000 miles on it and that's after I bought it used! How can this brand new chain be
so stretched after only ~800mi from new?

Different riding conditions produce different results. Also, is it possible that you've gained in
strength and are thereby putting more tension on the chain when pedalling now? More strain = more
abarasion by the dirt that's present = more wear; the equation is simple.

Quoted message said:

Is it possible that being so clean and free of heavy oil/gunk inside has made it seem longer?

No.

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asqui' may have said:

The bottle method works well indeed. I'll look into more environmentally friendly alternatives to
White Spirit. By the way, why is WS bad for the environment? Sorry to be ignorant...

All volatile organic compounds contribute to air pollution in one manner or another, although at
least WS does not contribute to photochemical smog. Refining the spirit is also an environmentally
dirty process at the *typical* facility, although it need not be as much as it is; profit rules over
responsible behavior there. On the other hand, many non-citrus cleaners are also produced as end
products from a petrochemical feed stock. (And I am sorry to say that as of the last time I tried
Simple Green, it was *not* citrus based; if it has since changed, this can only be for the better,
since it was decidedly less than satisfactory for me by compasison to what I usually use.)

You may have to seach around to discover sources for the kinds of cleaning agents that North
American users commonly have available. Automotive supply houses may be your best bet; if not, then
check with a janitorial supply concern. Kitchen degreasers are not always good at removing
petrochemical lubricants, though.

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Werehatrack said:

asqui' may have said:

I checked the chain on my old bike (I cringed when I saw its state... bearing in mind it was left
in a relatively "clean" condition for storage) It had barely any stretch, and I never cleaned
that thing at all, with anything, and lubricated it with WD-40 (*cringe*) then later Halfords
chain wax. I have done ~1,000 miles on it and that's after I bought it used! How can this brand
new chain be so stretched after only ~800mi from new?

Different riding conditions produce different results. Also, is it possible that you've gained in
strength and are thereby putting more tension on the chain when pedalling now? More strain = more
abarasion by the dirt that's present = more wear; the equation is simple.

Hmmmm I don't think I've gained that much strength, but now that you mention it, I realise that
the new bike has clipless SPD pedals whereas the old one just had flat pedals. I guess that
could be it...

I think it's also the looseness of the 9 speed chain though. After one ride of around 20 miles with
some light rain at one stage, the chain that was sparkling just hours ago now has that nasty gritty
feeling when I flex it.
🙁

Maybe I should try drowning it in this Halfords chain wax next time I clean it and see if that works
any better.

Is this level of clenliness acceptable? Am I just getting pedantic now? I must say, seeing the
amount of wear on the chain has certainly made me even more paranoid.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is it possible that being so clean and free of heavy oil/gunk inside has made it seem longer?

No.

Damn. I knew it was a long shot hoping for "yes, you now have to make it dirty so that it functions
correctly" 🙂

Dani

Rick Onanian may have said:

Werehatrack said:

I clean mine as I acquire used bikes, as I notice them getting really cruddy, and as time
permits. The last time that I actually *wore out* a chain was in (if I recall correctly) 1971.

You haven't stretched any chains in the last 30 years?

From 1972 through early in 2000, my riding was infrequent to the point that a year could go by
without anything getting on the saddle of my bike except some dust. This began to change when I
picked up a used MTB for my daughter just because it was cheap (I paid a whole buck for it; I
couldn't pass it up since it didn't even need tires) and *she* decided that *we* needed to go
riding. Since then, the bike stable has grown from four units in various states of neglect to about
a dozen in regular use.

Quoted message said:

I rode my mountain bike hard for one year and the chain stretched...since then, I've changed the
chain during related service enough times that it hasn't had a chance to stretch.

Since I'm starting with chains in decent shape with good lube, doing most of my riding on paved
ways, and spreading the usage among several units, I suspect that I will be a long time getting to
the next worn out chain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[1] depending upon the bike owner involved, this could include watching The Simpsons on TV.

That's a pretty good priority, but the problem is...all the tv shows I want to watch come on when
I'm asleep or riding. I'd love to watch Ren & Stimpy now that it's back on the air, but I never
remember to, because I'm asleep before it comes on.

Never heard of a VCR and timed taping to view things later, then? Not that watching TV is a better
use of one's time than scratching the cat's head, as at least two of ours will pointedly emphasize.

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"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

asqui' may have said:

It would appear that it is getting rather close to half a rivet width off

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the 12 inch mark. (When at full tension from the derailer) How can this be???

Some call it "stretch", those who have taken the chains apart and examined them call it "wear".
Half a rivet is about 1.5mm, which is not at the replacement mark by some standards. I'd have no
qualms about leaving that one in service.

The FAQ recommends replacing a chain at 1/2% elongation. At 12", this is about
1/16", or about half a rivet diameter. I try to replace mine somewhere between a half and a full
rivet diameter. Supposedly wear accelerates after the 1/2% point, so waiting longer isn't
necessarily cost effective, since sprockets and chain rings start wearing also.

Werehatrack said:

Since I'm starting with chains in decent shape with good lube, doing most of my riding on paved
ways, and spreading the usage among several units, I suspect that I will be a long time getting to
the next worn out chain.

Also, I forgot to mention that I weigh 210 and sometimes crank pretty hard, and ride very rough
terrain. I'm sure that had *nothing* to do with it. 😉

Quoted message said:

Never heard of a VCR and timed taping to view things later, then? Not that watching TV is a better
use of one's time than scratching the cat's head, as at least two of ours will pointedly
emphasize.

There's a couple more problems...I used to set any VCR to do my dirty work, and it always worked.
Now, it just never seems to work, using VCRs that have worked for me before. I'm getting kind of
discouraged.

Anyway, my cat would agree, I should scratch her head rather than watch TV.

Quoted message said:

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Peter Cole said:

The FAQ recommends replacing a chain at 1/2% elongation. At 12", this is
1/16", or about half a rivet diameter. I try to replace mine somewhere a half and a full rivet
diameter. Supposedly wear accelerates after the
1/2% point, so waiting longer isn't necessarily cost effective, since sprockets and chain rings
start wearing also.

That's the point of replacing the chain -- cassettes and cranksets are much more expensive than
chains, and once some wear shows up on any of the above, it soon wears everything else -- if the
chain is worn, it will wear the gears; if a gear is worn, it'll wear the chain, which will wear
everything else.

Replacing stretched chains prolongs the rest of the chain drive system's life.

--
Rick Onanian

asqui' may have said:

Is this level of clenliness acceptable?

It's probably as good as most chains get.

Quoted message said:

Am I just getting pedantic now? I must say, seeing the amount of wear on the chain has certainly
made me even more paranoid.

There's also the potential that the existing chain may not be as good as the ones you can buy as
replacements.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is it possible that being so clean and free of heavy oil/gunk inside has made it seem longer?

No.

Damn. I knew it was a long shot hoping for "yes, you now have to make it dirty so that it functions
correctly" 🙂

If my short bit of experience with waxing a chain is any indication, perhaps your speculation
elsewhere that it's time to try that route might be applicable. My one and only waxed chain seems to
be accumulating crud less swiftly than its oiled cousins. Perhaps, though, trying the wax with a new
chain, to see if the chain then lasts longer, would be more illuminating.

I will also note that in rechecking the recommendations that are around, "half a rivet" is
considered the wear limit by some standards. (Others go a bit farther, and that's what I'd based my
observation on previously.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
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"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Am I the only one who'd rather spend $25 on a new chain once every couple years, and a new
cassette every other chain, than spend an hour cleaning my chain for every 2 hours I spend riding?

It doesn't take an hour to clean the chain.

I have two chains either of which at any given time is "in cleaning/lubing". Cleaning just means
shaking the chain in solvent which is then filtered and used again with the same chain. Lubing means
leaving the chain in bath of oil for a while and then hanging it up for the excess to drain off,
following which the chain is wiped with a cloth and is then ready for use.

The whole process is spread over a period several days depending on when I am in the shed and in the
mood for a couple of minutes "work".

Having said this, I don't know how clean my chains really are (inside) after all this and whether
they will last longer but I like putting a "fresh" chain on every week or so!

Phileas