Lactic Acid Buildup

Jools said:

My question is, is there any method to improve on Lactic acid buildup, or
should I avoid hills.

No, you should seek them out more often.

Jools said:

When I start to climb I build up latic acid very fast, and am pooped afer a
minute or so.
I feel quite fit, and can do century rides no probs, but I hit some hard
climbs, and I am stuffed, legs start to burn, and trouble to breath, and
have to give up.

My question is, is there any method to improve on Lactic acid buildup, or
should I avoid hills.

Thankyou,
Jools

You need to climb more hills and get your body accustomed to the different strains on the body. I have friends who are great flat riders, very fast, can go on for hours...but because they never climb, as soon as the road rises...their speed drops and heart rate sky-rockets.

My advice would be to find the biggest hill in your area and include it regularly in your rides. See how long you can hold a big gear by using landmarks. For example, the first time you ride it, you might get to a certain tree before you have to change gears. The next time, you might get 100m further. Gradually, the lactic build up will only have effect at the top of the climb, or not at all. This is a good way to track your progress so you know you're getting better.

Get into the hills, it's the best!

Walrus said:

Jools said:

When I start to climb I build up latic acid very fast, and am pooped
afer a
minute or so.
I feel quite fit, and can do century rides no probs, but I hit some
hard
climbs, and I am stuffed, legs start to burn, and trouble to breath,
and
have to give up.

My question is, is there any method to improve on Lactic acid buildup,
or
should I avoid hills.

Thankyou,
Jools

You need to climb more hills and get your body accustomed to the
different strains on the body. I have friends who are great flat
riders, very fast, can go on for hours...but because they never climb,
as soon as the road rises...their speed drops and heart rate
sky-rockets.

My advice would be to find the biggest hill in your area and include it
regularly in your rides. See how long you can hold a big gear by using
landmarks. For example, the first time you ride it, you might get to a
certain tree before you have to change gears. The next time, you might
get 100m further. Gradually, the lactic build up will only have effect
at the top of the climb, or not at all. This is a good way to track
your progress so you know you're getting better.

Get into the hills, it's the best!

--
Walrus

Mix it up too. Sometimes you can just get in a nice low gear and spin
the whole way up. Other times, don't worry about getting to the top.
Just hit the hill as hard as you can in on gear, and once your cadence
drops below a certain number or once you've gone for a certain time,
roll back down the hill, spin out for a bit, and repeat many times.

Tam

Jools said:

When I start to climb I build up latic acid very fast, and am pooped afer a
minute or so.
I feel quite fit, and can do century rides no probs, but I hit some hard
climbs, and I am stuffed, legs start to burn, and trouble to breath, and
have to give up.

My question is, is there any method to improve on Lactic acid buildup, or
should I avoid hills.

Thankyou,
Jools

I saw on one of those TV science shows recently that lactic acid,
contrary to accepted theory, actually prevents muscle fatigue. You want
more lactic acid not less.

P
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

Peter McCallum said:

Jools said:

When I start to climb I build up latic acid very fast, and am pooped afer a
minute or so.
I feel quite fit, and can do century rides no probs, but I hit some hard
climbs, and I am stuffed, legs start to burn, and trouble to breath, and
have to give up.

My question is, is there any method to improve on Lactic acid buildup, or
should I avoid hills.

Thankyou,
Jools

I saw on one of those TV science shows recently that lactic acid,
contrary to accepted theory, actually prevents muscle fatigue. You want
more lactic acid not less.

P
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

That sounds like a bit of a misinterpretation of the lactic acid
shuttle, similar to what Runners World published about a year ago.

Tam

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:03:27 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Peter McCallum said:

Jools said:

When I start to climb I build up latic acid very fast, and am pooped afer a
minute or so.
I feel quite fit, and can do century rides no probs, but I hit some hard
climbs, and I am stuffed, legs start to burn, and trouble to breath, and
have to give up.

My question is, is there any method to improve on Lactic acid buildup, or
should I avoid hills.

Thankyou,
Jools

I saw on one of those TV science shows recently that lactic acid,
contrary to accepted theory, actually prevents muscle fatigue. You want
more lactic acid not less.

P
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

That sounds like a bit of a misinterpretation of the lactic acid
shuttle, similar to what Runners World published about a year ago.

It's a bit of a misunderstanding, sports scientists have a different
idea now of how the body works.

The current theory is that blood lactate is a fuel, generated by
partially anaerobic muscle activity. It's not a bad thing in itself,
and it's a secondary (or tertiary?) indicator of fatigue, not a
cause or primary indicator. It's used by the body to shuffle fuel
around, as your muscles can't donate glygogen, but they can use
lactate as a fuel and donate it to other muscles.

At least, that's my understanding. the "lactate threshold"
probably has as much validity as ventalation thresholds etc,
ie: it's not really all that useful as a direct indicator of
performance.

Carl Brewer said:

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:03:27 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Peter McCallum said:

Jools <[email hidden]> wrote:

> When I start to climb I build up latic acid very fast, and am pooped afer a
> minute or so.
> I feel quite fit, and can do century rides no probs, but I hit some hard
> climbs, and I am stuffed, legs start to burn, and trouble to breath, and
> have to give up.
>
> My question is, is there any method to improve on Lactic acid buildup, or
> should I avoid hills.
>
> Thankyou,
> Jools

I saw on one of those TV science shows recently that lactic acid,
contrary to accepted theory, actually prevents muscle fatigue. You want
more lactic acid not less.

P
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

That sounds like a bit of a misinterpretation of the lactic acid
shuttle, similar to what Runners World published about a year ago.

It's a bit of a misunderstanding, sports scientists have a different
idea now of how the body works.

The current theory is that blood lactate is a fuel, generated by
partially anaerobic muscle activity. It's not a bad thing in itself,
and it's a secondary (or tertiary?) indicator of fatigue, not a
cause or primary indicator. It's used by the body to shuffle fuel
around, as your muscles can't donate glygogen, but they can use
lactate as a fuel and donate it to other muscles.

At least, that's my understanding. the "lactate threshold"
probably has as much validity as ventalation thresholds etc,
ie: it's not really all that useful as a direct indicator of
performance.

They still agree that high lactic acid levels reduce performance. People
who go on about how lactate is so different from lactic acid don't seem
to understand the concept of ions in water.

And yeah, the lactate threshold is pretty much an arbitrarily determined
point which even health professionals throw in to training program
guidelines, but no one really knows what to do with it.

Tam

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:30:13 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

They still agree that high lactic acid levels reduce performance. People
who go on about how lactate is so different from lactic acid don't seem
to understand the concept of ions in water.

Does it reduce performance, or is it a sign of reduced
performance?

Carl Brewer said:

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:30:13 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

They still agree that high lactic acid levels reduce performance. People
who go on about how lactate is so different from lactic acid don't seem
to understand the concept of ions in water.

Does it reduce performance, or is it a sign of reduced
performance?

Yeah, the main conclusions drawn so far still reckon it reduces
performance. This being that it changes the pH at which your muscles are
working or similar. Not to say it's not also a sign of reduced
performance. If it was both, that'd be a nasty exponential performance
reduction curve. They think the "shuttle" works at the same rate
throughout. No links or [censored] though, just check Web of Science.

Another interesting one: slight dehydration and increased sodium levels
may improve performance; the studies originally thought that it was just
that better athletes worked harder and ended up more dehydrated etc but
now they're reconsidering.

It ain't science, it's art. (heart?)

Tam

Something I read I don't know where (or even when now!) was concentrating on breathing *out* rather than in when climbing (or any exertion really) to help minimise (not prevent) lactic acid build-up.

Well, it seems to work (or it is just that I breathe better like this 🙄 ), but impossible to tell *what* is actually working. Things just feel much easier if i'm spending time emptying my lungs rather than gasping 😉

ali

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:24:34 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does it reduce performance, or is it a sign of reduced
performance?

Yeah, the main conclusions drawn so far still reckon it reduces
performance. This being that it changes the pH at which your muscles are
working or similar. Not to say it's not also a sign of reduced
performance. If it was both, that'd be a nasty exponential performance
reduction curve. They think the "shuttle" works at the same rate
throughout. No links or [censored] though, just check Web of Science.

*nod*

Quoted message said:

Another interesting one: slight dehydration and increased sodium levels
may improve performance; the studies originally thought that it was just
that better athletes worked harder and ended up more dehydrated etc but
now they're reconsidering.

Yeah, I read that recently. Still being a bit conservative on
what I recommend to my riders though, until a little more is known
about it.

Quoted message said:

It ain't science, it's art. (heart?)

It's science all right, we're seeing real research and evolution
of a field (at long last ....) It's a young field, and I say bring on
more real research!

Carl Brewer wrote:
<cut hahaha not snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It ain't science, it's art. (heart?)

It's science all right, we're seeing real research and evolution
of a field (at long last ....) It's a young field, and I say bring on
more real research!

It's funny how many different areas of research have been slowed because
people who obtained results that disagreed with published, accepted
results decided to average them a bit so it didn't look so bad.

Ground-breaking, that's what we want!

Tam

alison_b said:

Something I read I don't know where (or even when now!) was
concentrating on breathing *out* rather than in when climbing (or any
exertion really) to help minimise (not prevent) lactic acid build-up.

Well, it seems to work (or it is just that I breathe better like this
🙄 ), but impossible to tell *what* is actually working.
Things just feel much easier if i'm spending time emptying my lungs
rather than gasping 😉

ali

--
alison_b

Don't think that's a lactate thing but rather the fact that too much CO2
is the downside of not breathing, rather than not enough O2. And
focussing on breathing in is just likely to make you hyperventilate
without increasing how much O2 your body can use.

Tam

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:49:34 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Carl Brewer wrote:
<cut hahaha not snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It ain't science, it's art. (heart?)

It's science all right, we're seeing real research and evolution
of a field (at long last ....) It's a young field, and I say bring on
more real research!

It's funny how many different areas of research have been slowed because
people who obtained results that disagreed with published, accepted
results decided to average them a bit so it didn't look so bad.

Ground-breaking, that's what we want!

Or just honest 🙂

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:00:34 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

alison_b said:

Something I read I don't know where (or even when now!) was
concentrating on breathing *out* rather than in when climbing (or any
exertion really) to help minimise (not prevent) lactic acid build-up.

Well, it seems to work (or it is just that I breathe better like this
🙄 ), but impossible to tell *what* is actually working.
Things just feel much easier if i'm spending time emptying my lungs
rather than gasping 😉

ali

--
alison_b

Don't think that's a lactate thing but rather the fact that too much CO2
is the downside of not breathing, rather than not enough O2.

Tam, you're mixing cause with effect again 🙂

Excessive CO2 is what makes us want to breathe, which
is why it's very easy to die in an atmosphere that has
depleted oxygen, and why balloon gas is 20% oxygen 🙂
It's not the CO2 that kills you, it's the lack of oxygen.

Carl Brewer said:

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:30:13 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

They still agree that high lactic acid levels reduce performance. People
who go on about how lactate is so different from lactic acid don't seem
to understand the concept of ions in water.

Does it reduce performance, or is it a sign of reduced
performance?

Here's a link to an article on cyclingnews.com in case you haven't seen it.
"Lactate and lactic acid - dispelling the myths"
tinyurl.comcyd7yOpen ↗

Tamyka Bell said:

They still agree that high lactic acid levels reduce performance. People
who go on about how lactate is so different from lactic acid don't seem
to understand the concept of ions in water.

And yeah, the lactate threshold is pretty much an arbitrarily determined
point which even health professionals throw in to training program
guidelines, but no one really knows what to do with it.

Tam

Here's the link to the transcript of the ABC's Catalyst program on
Lactic Acid http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1314443.htm

"Narration
In pulling back the membrane-rather like removing a glove-a single cell
is revealed half the thickness of a human hair.

This allows the scientists access to manipulate conditions inside it and
isolate just what chemical causes what effect.

The tiny fibre is mounted in a chamber and given brief electrical pulses
as in the frogs leg experiment of old.

Then they add lactic acid-the conventional wisdom is that the fibre
should soon tire, but it didn't.

George Stephenson
It's still contracting and you can see that it's contracting just as
powerfully as it did contract before.

Dr Graham Lamb
We could measure the force and we could say there is no change in the
amount of force that have produced this.

Narration
Incredibly, the team believes lactic acid plays a totally unexpected
role...it actually improves muscle performance.

Dr Graham Lamb
The harder he wants to work the more electrical signal keeps going but
if you stimulate it too much the electrical signal fails but the lactic
acid building up in the muscle keep the electrical signal going for
longer"

--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

Peter McCallum said:

Tamyka Bell said:

They still agree that high lactic acid levels reduce performance. People
who go on about how lactate is so different from lactic acid don't seem
to understand the concept of ions in water.

And yeah, the lactate threshold is pretty much an arbitrarily determined
point which even health professionals throw in to training program
guidelines, but no one really knows what to do with it.

Tam

Here's the link to the transcript of the ABC's Catalyst program on
Lactic Acid http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1314443.htm

"Narration
In pulling back the membrane-rather like removing a glove-a single cell
is revealed half the thickness of a human hair.

This allows the scientists access to manipulate conditions inside it and
isolate just what chemical causes what effect.

The tiny fibre is mounted in a chamber and given brief electrical pulses
as in the frogs leg experiment of old.

Then they add lactic acid-the conventional wisdom is that the fibre
should soon tire, but it didn't.

George Stephenson
It's still contracting and you can see that it's contracting just as
powerfully as it did contract before.

Dr Graham Lamb
We could measure the force and we could say there is no change in the
amount of force that have produced this.

Narration
Incredibly, the team believes lactic acid plays a totally unexpected
role...it actually improves muscle performance.

Dr Graham Lamb
The harder he wants to work the more electrical signal keeps going but
if you stimulate it too much the electrical signal fails but the lactic
acid building up in the muscle keep the electrical signal going for
longer"

--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

Hmmmm,

I've read articles... but I don't trust stuff that hasn't been backed up
independently. My PhD supervisor featured on Catalyst a few years ago,
regarding a qt experiment, and the results presented weren't entirely
accurate. Not that I necessarily trust peer-reviewed results anyway.

Tam

Tamyka Bell said:

Hmmmm,

I've read articles... but I don't trust stuff that hasn't been backed up
independently. My PhD supervisor featured on Catalyst a few years ago,
regarding a qt experiment, and the results presented weren't entirely
accurate. Not that I necessarily trust peer-reviewed results anyway.

Tam

personally, i never trust anything that hasn't been mentioned on
aus.bicycle

--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA