(4) whereas the best you could do is propose that some undefined yardstick exists. You did not provide any source for your competing definition. You then proposed the existence of a hypothetical case of someone who trains hard and yet does not perform.
That is the whole issue - you do not include performance, achievement, talent, etc in your definition of 'athlete' - that is preposterous
No, "the whole issue" is that the thing that you call "my definition"
(1) is actually the definition of the Merriam Webster dictionary, not "my" definition,
(2) the history of the term, which I again support with referenceable sources, supports a literal reading of this definition.
Not so Donovan:
athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thlt) n.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
(1) is actually the definition of the Merriam Webster dictionary, not "my" definition,
(2) the history of the term, which I again support with referenceable sources, supports a literal reading of this definition.
Not so Donovan:
athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thlt) n.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
As I pointed out, the definition I cited is from another source. The origin is from Latin athleta, from Greek athlEtEs, from athlein to contend for a prize, from athlon prize, contest
In other words, the definition you cite refers to a general athletic stereotype (someone who "looks like an athlete"😉, whereas the definition I cite is more consistent with the origin of the term.
(1) is actually the definition of the Merriam Webster dictionary, not "my" definition,
(2) the history of the term, which I again support with referenceable sources, supports a literal reading of this definition.
Not so Donovan:
athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thlt) n.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
As I pointed out, the definition I cited is from another source. The origin is from Latin athleta, from Greek athlEtEs, from athlein to contend for a prize, from athlon prize, contest
In other words, the definition you cite refers to a general athletic stereotype (someone who "looks like an athlete"😉, whereas the definition I cite is more consistent with the origin of the term.
"Spungo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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Spungo said:
> (4) whereas the best you could do is propose that some undefined > yardstick exists.
Is that unreasonable? While technically, any human being trained to compete in any sport, whether it be football or lawn darts, could technically
be
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Quoted message said:
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called an "athlete", the vast majority of people have higher standards for who they consider "athletes".
There is a general notion of "athlete" which is based on qualities that develop with training for athletic contests. In other words, there does exist an athletic stereotype. The stereotype does not define the term though.
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A 700 pound guy tossing some darts in his backyard while sitting on his lazy-boy recliner doesn't cut it as an "athlete" in my mind.
I agree, but the grounds for my view are different -- I would argue that his training is not physically strenuous, whereas the word
"athlete"
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originally refered to and continues to refer to demanding activities.
If the 700lb guy ran 80 miles a week, I'd call him an athlete. But 700lb guys don't run 80 miles in a week (because they can't).
Fair enough, I guess. I do consider really fat football players athletes
so
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I suppose your example works.
Not so if they are in the NFL , they would be athletes by any definition. This is an elite group who have certainly distinguished themselves by any measure
A 700 pound guy tossing some darts in his backyard while sitting on his lazy-boy recliner doesn't cut it as an "athlete" in my mind.
I agree, but the grounds for my view are different -- I would argue that his training is not physically strenuous, whereas the word "athlete" originally refered to and continues to refer to demanding activities.
There's also common usage. I've never heard darts referred to as an athletic competition before. In point of fact, I mostly hear of darts as a bar game, where bar games are typically done by people who hang out at bars rather than behaving like athletes (i.e., people who watch their diets and spend their spare time exercising.)
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If the 700lb guy ran 80 miles a week, I'd call him an athlete. But 700lb guys don't run 80 miles in a week (because they can't).
I'd wager that many athletes can't run 80 miles in a week [without injuring something]. Powerlifters, for example, aren't known for fleetness of foot.
>(4) whereas the best you could do is propose that some undefined >yardstick exists. You did not provide any source for your competing >definition. You then proposed the existence of a hypothetical >case of someone who trains hard and yet does not perform.
That is the whole issue - you do not include performance, achievement, talent, etc in your definition of 'athlete' - that is preposterous
No, "the whole issue" is that the thing that you call "my definition"
(1) is actually the definition of the Merriam Webster dictionary, not "my" definition,
(2) the history of the term, which I again support with referenceable sources, supports a literal reading of this definition.
Not so Donovan:
athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thlt) n.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
Thank you. I have acquired the traits, specifically strength, agility and endurance, necessary for competing in triathlons and performed those same traits in a competitive context.
On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 20:10:28 -0400, Dally <[email hidden]> wrote: ....
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Thank you. I have acquired the traits, specifically strength, agility and endurance, necessary for competing in triathlons and performed those same traits in a competitive context.
"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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Charles said:
Donovan Rebbechi said:
On 2005-08-01, David <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>(4) whereas the best you could do is propose that some undefined >>yardstick exists. You did not provide any source for your competing >>definition. You then proposed the existence of a hypothetical >>case of someone who trains hard and yet does not perform. > >That is the whole issue - you do not include performance, achievement, >talent, etc in your definition of 'athlete' - that is preposterous
No, "the whole issue" is that the thing that you call "my definition"
(1) is actually the definition of the Merriam Webster dictionary, not
"my"
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Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
definition,
(2) the history of the term, which I again support with referenceable
sources,
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Quoted message said:
supports a literal reading of this definition.
Not so Donovan:
athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thlt) n.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
Thank you. I have acquired the traits, specifically strength, agility and endurance, necessary for competing in triathlons and performed those same traits in a competitive context.
I appreciate your support.
Dally
Of course it is still your opinion - until you validate that with actual accomplishments that might put you in an elite group - they remain just that - your opinion
Fair enough, I guess. I do consider really fat football players athletes so I suppose your example works.
Not so if they are in the NFL , they would be athletes by any definition. This is an elite group who have certainly distinguished themselves by any measure
Some of them are quite fat, so they haven't distinguished themselves in a good way by that measure. For that matter, I don't think they'd be able to run at a decent speed for very long either. And I doubt they're terribly bothered by this. Most elite level athletes tend to *specialise* which means they are willing to trade doing well on any test of fitness, for doing that extra bit better on their chosen event.
"Dally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Charles said:
athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thlt) n.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
Thank you. I have acquired the traits, specifically strength, agility and endurance, necessary for competing in triathlons and performed those same traits in a competitive context.
I appreciate your support.
Dally
Of course it is still your opinion - until you validate that with actual accomplishments that might put you in an elite group - they remain just that - your opinion
No, you're the one with an opinion. I'm the one with an objective definition. You're entitled to your opinions about my athletic status. You're just wrong.
(4) whereas the best you could do is propose that some undefined yardstick exists.
Is that unreasonable? While technically, any human being trained to compete in any sport, whether it be football or lawn darts, could technically be called an "athlete", the vast majority of people have higher standards for who they consider "athletes".
There is a general notion of "athlete" which is based on qualities that develop with training for athletic contests. In other words, there does exist an athletic stereotype. The stereotype does not define the term though.
Quoted message said:
A 700 pound guy tossing some darts in his backyard while sitting on his lazy-boy recliner doesn't cut it as an "athlete" in my mind.
I agree, but the grounds for my view are different -- I would argue that his training is not physically strenuous, whereas the word "athlete" originally refered to and continues to refer to demanding activities.
If the 700lb guy ran 80 miles a week, I'd call him an athlete. But 700lb guys don't run 80 miles in a week (because they can't).
Cheers,
This is probably devolving to where the "powerlifter" vs "competitive powerlifter" discussion used to go.
On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:49:03 +0100, Charles <[email hidden]>
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Not so Donovan:
athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thlt) n.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
He got you there Donovan. There's athletes, and there's competitive athletes. One need not compete to be an athlete.
TBR "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956) "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent, but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
Donovan and Dally are driving me away. I am hanging on by a thread. Someone please help me!!
Certainly!
*snip*
-- Jim Seymour | "It is wrong always, everywhere and WARNING: The "From:" address is a | for everyone to believe anything upon spam trap. DON'T USE IT! Use: | insufficient evidence." [email hidden] | - W. K. Clifford, ca. 1876
"The Bill Rodgers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:49:03 +0100, Charles <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Not so Donovan:
athlete Audio pronunciation of "athlete" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thlt) n.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
