Undertow/current (OT?)

"Maxx Taxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:XjIGe.1742$jA4.649@amstwist00...
| Undertow/current (OT?)
|
| The only good thing about this is that I got a lesson to take
precautions to
| never let it happen again.

From your description, I think undertow is the phenomenon you
experienced. It refers to the action of water ebbing out from shore
in a strong current after waves bring it in. One place I have
experienced it is on the North Shore of Oahu, where waves cross an
elevated surf, roll up on the beach, then return in a long, steady
stream. In only 3' of water, relatively calm on top, the current
underneath going out is very strong, making it hard to stand and
difficult to swim against.

The phenomenon attending undertow is that, although it may take you
out quite a ways--into the surf in the case of North Beach--, it will
often circle around and bring you back to shore at another point.

Now, the way to survive when caught in an undertow is significant in
relation to survival in general, it seems, because it has to do with
not panicking and going into a resourceful mode. Your human-chain
rescue was fortunate, but what if you are over your head and/or alone?
Panic, and you will swim desperately, which may not save you and leave
you exhausted and helpless. But you can decide to relax and go with
the flow in a sort of watchful waiting. This can work in the case of
undertow because you may be taken out from shore, but then brought
back by the current to a calmer beach area.

Other posters may confirm this, or not.

bookburn

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:07:50 +0200 "Maxx Taxx" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

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Quoted message said:

With "rip tides" I read that the advice is to swim ot of the narrow
current - ALONG and not as one would think TOWARDS the beach.

In my 30+ years of surfing in many areas have proved that
this is the correct solution. And actually, this method
was taught to me by a beach lifeguard when I was about
six years old (around 1963), before I started surfing.

And a number of things to remember:
* Stay calm
* Swim at a leasurely pace - if you swim too
fast, you will expend your energy faster
* You may have to swim father than you think
to get out of the current

Bullet #2 is important when you consider bullet #3. I've been
in situations where I've had to swim well over 1/2 mile to a
mile to get out of the current and return to the beach.

--
remove MYSHOES to email

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 03:37:55 -0800, "bookburn" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Maxx Taxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:XjIGe.1742$jA4.649@amstwist00...
| Undertow/current (OT?)
|
| The only good thing about this is that I got a lesson to take
precautions to
| never let it happen again.

The phenomenon attending undertow is that, although it may take you
out quite a ways--into the surf in the case of North Beach--, it will
often circle around and bring you back to shore at another point.

There is a difference between undertow and a rip current. Undertow is
water moving off a beach after it has washed up. Typically, it occurs
on steep beaches. A rip current occurs when waves bring water in to a
shore area and that water then must find somewhere to go. An undertow
never occurs more than a few feet from shore and never in water deeper
than 6'. A rip current may not reach the beach and can be in very deep
water.
Two dangerous beaches for undertow are Finisterra at Cabo Can Lucas,
Mexico, and Waimea Bay on the North Shore of Hawaii. They are both
steep beaches with the potential for large waves. What makes them
dangerous is that a person can be walking on the beach totally dry,
and a wave will wash up the beach and drag them out into the pounding
surf. Even experienced swimmers/watermen can be in danger in those
places.
Rip currents may move parallel to the shore for a long way before
going out to sea. They may seem like a strong river.

The solution to both is awareness. Always watch the ocean for a while
at a strange beach before you get wet. Look at the sand on the beach
and see how far up the waves come - the sand will be wet. Look for
lines of white foam on the surface that indicate a rip. See how the
water moves along the shore.

One last point - there is no such thing as a "rip tide." Tides are
caused by the action of the sun and the moon and occur twice
(sometimes once,) daily around the world..

--
Turby the Turbosurfer

The only people I have ever heard talk about undertow with conviction
and authority are people that only visit the ocean a few days per year
and live in Iowa.

Basically you have your:

Rip current:
that acts like a river going toward the ocean and usually stops beyond
the breaking waves. You handle this like a river by swimming to the
sides or just let it take you out and then come in with the waves.

Back Wash:
As mentioned is common on very steep beaches. It is very powerful, but
it only takes you to the next incoming wave. The key is get out during
the lulls, or try to go with the next wave inward.

Cross current or along the shore current:
More common on the Great Lakes and maybe certain ocean areas. All the
water can start moving several miles per hour in one direction. For
example here just last Wednesday to take off in the spot I desired, I
had to constantly paddle against the current. These currents may
create some weird situations.

All that said, if you continue to go into the ocean, if might be very
useful to learn how to body surf. Else always go where there are good
lifeguards.

It sounds like you got caught in a rip current. A rip current
occurs when there is a break in a sand bar which causes the water to rush
out through the gap. People get into trouble because they try to swim
against the current, which can be very swift. The thing to do is swim
parallel to the shore until you are out of the current, then you should be
able to swim into shore.

There are some things to look for that may indicate a rip tide
is present. There may be choppy water, which is a different in color (often
sandy-looking) from surrounding waters. A line of seaweed, debris or foam
may be seen moving seaward, and there often is a noticeable break in the
incoming wave pattern.

"Maxx Taxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:XjIGe.1742$jA4.649@amstwist00...

Quoted message said:

Undertow/current (OT?)

I was in Thailand last week, (Koh Chang, White Sand Beach just outside
Banpu
Koh Chang Hotel) with my son and his friend, both are 12-13 years of age,
I
can breast swim well but not crawl and the boys are ok swimmers for their
age.

The waves (about one meter high) were coming in towards the shore and we
went out a bit.

The boys went out as far as they could stand up and still have their heads
above the water.

Me I was a bit behind them.

Suddenly I felt like a current taking hold of my legs pulling towards the
sea.

I have read what you and others have said and I might be dense but I still
don't understand one thing :
If it was a rip current, why did the waves (which as I said were a meter
high or so) go in the direction from the sea onto the shore at the point
where we were standing when we struggled to get to land.
That is something I definitely remember (because when we couldn't move I
kept track of them to not inhale or swallow the water). On the other hand I
was way too busy to notice if this was true for all the area surrounding me,
but for at least the 10 meters or so we were occupying it was definitely
going from sea to land ...
Can a rip current exist on the deeper layers only and not on surface ?

BTW the beach was not steep - on the contrary, at least not as far out as I
could remain in contact with the surface

"lhnaegs" <[email hidden]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The only people I have ever heard talk about undertow with conviction
and authority are people that only visit the ocean a few days per year
and live in Iowa.

Basically you have your:

Rip current:
that acts like a river going toward the ocean and usually stops beyond
the breaking waves. You handle this like a river by swimming to the
sides or just let it take you out and then come in with the waves.

Back Wash:
As mentioned is common on very steep beaches. It is very powerful, but
it only takes you to the next incoming wave. The key is get out during
the lulls, or try to go with the next wave inward.

Cross current or along the shore current:
More common on the Great Lakes and maybe certain ocean areas. All the
water can start moving several miles per hour in one direction. For
example here just last Wednesday to take off in the spot I desired, I
had to constantly paddle against the current. These currents may
create some weird situations.

All that said, if you continue to go into the ocean, if might be very
useful to learn how to body surf. Else always go where there are good
lifeguards.

In article <jaSGe.1901$jA4.669@amstwist00>,

Maxx Taxx said:

I have read what you and others have said and I might be dense but I still
don't understand one thing :
If it was a rip current, why did the waves (which as I said were a meter
high or so) go in the direction from the sea onto the shore at the point
where we were standing when we struggled to get to land.

The waves always go from the sea onto the shore. The waves are separate
from the current.

Quoted message said:

That is something I definitely remember (because when we couldn't move I
kept track of them to not inhale or swallow the water). On the other hand I
was way too busy to notice if this was true for all the area surrounding me,
but for at least the 10 meters or so we were occupying it was definitely
going from sea to land ...
Can a rip current exist on the deeper layers only and not on surface ?

BTW the beach was not steep - on the contrary, at least not as far out as I
could remain in contact with the surface

"lhnaegs" <[email hidden]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The only people I have ever heard talk about undertow with conviction
and authority are people that only visit the ocean a few days per year
and live in Iowa.

Basically you have your:

Rip current:
that acts like a river going toward the ocean and usually stops beyond
the breaking waves. You handle this like a river by swimming to the
sides or just let it take you out and then come in with the waves.

Back Wash:
As mentioned is common on very steep beaches. It is very powerful, but
it only takes you to the next incoming wave. The key is get out during
the lulls, or try to go with the next wave inward.

Cross current or along the shore current:
More common on the Great Lakes and maybe certain ocean areas. All the
water can start moving several miles per hour in one direction. For
example here just last Wednesday to take off in the spot I desired, I
had to constantly paddle against the current. These currents may
create some weird situations.

All that said, if you continue to go into the ocean, if might be very
useful to learn how to body surf. Else always go where there are good
lifeguards.

Thanks,
BTW I found very good info at http://www.ripcurrents.noaa.gov/science.shtml

"Jeffrey T. Spaulding" <[email hidden]> skrev i
meddelandet news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <jaSGe.1901$jA4.669@amstwist00>,
"Maxx Taxx" <[email hidden]> wrote:

The waves always go from the sea onto the shore. The waves are separate
from the current.

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 23:20:12 +0200, "Maxx Taxx" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I have read what you and others have said and I might be dense but I still
don't understand one thing :
If it was a rip current, why did the waves (which as I said were a meter
high or so) go in the direction from the sea onto the shore at the point
where we were standing when we struggled to get to land.
That is something I definitely remember (because when we couldn't move I
kept track of them to not inhale or swallow the water). On the other hand I
was way too busy to notice if this was true for all the area surrounding me,
but for at least the 10 meters or so we were occupying it was definitely
going from sea to land ...
Can a rip current exist on the deeper layers only and not on surface ?

There are deep water currents, but they are not rip currents as we
know them. Deep water currents are at the bottom of the ocean and move
water around the world.
Talking to some lifeguard friends today, I should correct myself. In
SoCal, the term "undertow" is not used at all by lifeguard agencies.
It is all considered a rip. Certainly, the term is a misnomer, because
whatever water is dragging you around, it doesn't go under any other
water, it is just the flow of water off a beach.

Depending on the beach, waves will strike it at different places.
There is an excellent book which describes how it happens:
Waves & Beaches, by Willard Bascom.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385148445/103-7974383-3076625?v=glance
(It is a revered text among surfers because it was one of the first to
describe waves from a scientific standpoint that is understandable by
laymen.)

In very simple terms, the rip was caused by all the water that came
ashore with the waves. The water had to go somewhere, so it found the
easiest path, off the beach. It's very rare to see a rip without waves
of some sort.

--
Turby the Turbosurfer

"Maxx Taxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XjIGe.1742$jA4.649@amstwist00...

Quoted message said:

Undertow/current (OT?)
I was in Thailand last week, (Koh Chang, White Sand Beach just outside Banpu
Koh Chang Hotel) with my son and his friend, both are 12-13 years of age, I
can breast swim well but not crawl and the boys are ok swimmers for their
age.

-snip-

Quoted message said:

Suddenly I felt like a current taking hold of my legs pulling towards the
sea.

-snip-

Quoted message said:

It was much harder than I could ever have thought to start moving to the
shore even though we were two men helping each other - it was really, really
slow in the beginning.

Last May I was with some friends playing in the surf at a beach on the upper Texas coast. The seas
were rough for that area of the Gulf, 3-4 feet. I didn't really notice the strength of the undertow
at first. It as just a gentle tug on my legs. In that part of the Gulf you can go out about 200
yards and still be in chest deep water, so we're talking about a very gentle slope. We were in chest
deep water jumping as the waves came by. What I didn't notice was that every time the waves would
put me back down I was in a different place. After I while I was in neck deep water, and thought I
should get back to chest or waist deep water. I found out that was easier said than done. The
undertow at that depth was working on much more than my legs, it had most of my body to pull on, and
at that depth my weigh in the water didn't give any resistance. I tried to walk toward the shore and
absolutely could not. A brief flash of panic came over me and I decided that I could swim, on the
surface, back to chest deep water. It was still very difficult but I was able to get back to a depth
that I could walk in. I can easily see how a weak swimmer would have been in real trouble. It was a
great lesson. I intend to never again put myself in that situation, but I also took up swimming at
the gym 3-4 times a week. If I should get caught in that situation again, I want to be sure of my
strength and endurance.

"Turby" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

In very simple terms, the rip was caused by all the water that came
ashore with the waves. The water had to go somewhere, so it found the
easiest path, off the beach. It's very rare to see a rip without waves
of some sort.

Except in the case of rapid tidal swings where you have an inner channel
dumping into the outer waters. It's a common occurrence at certain tide
swings in spring, after the winter storms have cut a longshore channel in
the Huntington beachbreak. It will turn glass into heavy texture in a matter
of minutes, even with no wind or waves.

Of course, with surf added to the equation, it intensifies greatly.

Awe

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 00:57:32 GMT, "Awe F'shore" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Turby" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

In very simple terms, the rip was caused by all the water that came
ashore with the waves. The water had to go somewhere, so it found the
easiest path, off the beach. It's very rare to see a rip without waves
of some sort.

Except in the case of rapid tidal swings where you have an inner channel
dumping into the outer waters. It's a common occurrence at certain tide
swings in spring, after the winter storms have cut a longshore channel in
the Huntington beachbreak. It will turn glass into heavy texture in a matter
of minutes, even with no wind or waves.

Of course, with surf added to the equation, it intensifies greatly.

Awe

Larsen's beach Kauai has a channel in the reef that occasionally
drains unsuspecting snorkelers out to sea with the tide changes. Any
narrow barrier island channel has the potential for strong tidal
currents. These currents can kill.

_g

Awe F'shore said:

"Turby" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

In very simple terms, the rip was caused by all the water that came
ashore with the waves. The water had to go somewhere, so it found the
easiest path, off the beach. It's very rare to see a rip without waves
of some sort.

rip pics and stories:

http://www.ripcurrents.noaa.gov/graphics.shtml
http://www.ripcurrents.noaa.gov/real_life.shtml

lp

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 00:57:32 GMT, "Awe F'shore" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Turby" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

In very simple terms, the rip was caused by all the water that came
ashore with the waves. The water had to go somewhere, so it found the
easiest path, off the beach. It's very rare to see a rip without waves
of some sort.

Except in the case of rapid tidal swings where you have an inner channel
dumping into the outer waters. It's a common occurrence at certain tide
swings in spring, after the winter storms have cut a longshore channel in
the Huntington beachbreak. It will turn glass into heavy texture in a matter
of minutes, even with no wind or waves.

Of course, with surf added to the equation, it intensifies greatly.

unh, yeah. I was racking my geezer brain trying to think of examples.
I guess I should have said, "It's very rare _around here._"

--
Turby the Turbosurfer