Re:: HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: The Truth Causes Unrest To The Guilty
From: Orac [email hidden]
Date: 2/22/2004 6:58 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Jan) said:

>Subject: Re: The Truth Causes Unrest To The Guilty
>From: Orac [email hidden]
>Date: 2/22/2004 2:08 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>You seem to be very fond of calling people liars.

I didn't think you could.

Could what?

Keep reading, it is right there in the post you copied.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just chalk it up to another false accusations,
that can't be proven.

I call the liars on this ng when they lie.

No you don't. You call people liars when you don't like what they say.

There it is, now that's another claim for you to prove, and you still haven''t
proven the ones from last night.

Quoted message said:

Hint:

Quoted message said:

Lying is rampant here. Please stop.

Rampant?

Yep.

Now as a reminder:

You still have not correct your mistake after accusing me of same and you have
NOT posted proof of your claims and your belief of the lies from Rich.

What is taking so long?
==

Quoted message said:

Anyone who would defend Jan Drew given her statements is as EVIL as

Quoted message said:

she is IMO. Jan Drew's usefulness in this group is to identify those
who agree with her or support her as despicable human beings.

*I don't really think Jan is necessarily evil. She is, however, so
blinded by her hatred of conventional medicine*

That is a repeated LIE!!!!

It has been proven, but it is still repeated.

From: Jan ([email hidden])
Subject: Re: Why Amalgam?
Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry
Date: 2003-09-01 22:27:29 PST

You must not be aware of my posts of MHA. It is *organized* medicine that is
evil, not conventional. I know quite a few good dedicated doctors and Thank God
for them. Here are a few of my posts that will hopefully help you to understand
my position.

From: Jan ([email hidden])
Subject: Re: Medical Errors Kill up to 98,000 Hospitalized Americans per Year/
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2002-02-15 18:15:56 PST

Someone asked :

Quoted message said:

what is the difference (as far as you are concerned) between "evil organized
med" and conventional med?

It's the organization itself that is evil. Going way back you'll learn how they
operate. How they control using politics. Controlling what is taught is medical
schools. Suppressings of alternatives. Ye good ole boy club EGO thing. There
are many good and dedicated medical people in conventional medicine, that are
NOT members of the organization.

We have a few examples of organized members right here. Take a look at how
Peter B. lied in his article on Ben Kolb. Then there are those who defend his
lies. Another is Peter Moran. He denies anything that doesn't come from
organized medicine. The NCAHF and Stephen Barrett play a big role. Who suffers
from all of this? The American people.

From: Jan ([email hidden])
Subject: Re: Re Why are people turning to alt. medicine?
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2002-02-02 19:24:24 PST

That's where everyone takes me wrong. I have often explained that I
appreciate the many dedicated doctors we have and the wonderful technology.
NOTall doctors or medical people are a part of the organization. As a matter of
fact many fight against it and can tell some whoppers.The*organization* itself
is where the evil lies. Read about it in Racketeering in Medicine.

What is so strange about that? I have stated many times the evils of
organized medicine, I have also stated that there are many good dedicated
doctors who carry a hugh responsibility, and THANK GOD for them. My young
doctor is very dedicated as is my CRA's hubby who just graduated from med
school. Both will tell you the evils of organized medicine.

My heart goes out to the dedicated medical people, God Bless them.

I can see how you would get that idea for just one post. However previously
Ihave made it plain that I appreciated the great responsibility of
dedicated doctors. It is the *organization* that is the problem. Many doctors
are NOT apart of it, and they will tell you of even more of the evils.

Bad doctors? To answer your question. Yes I would either call 911 or rush the
child to the ER room. And I would greatly appreciated the doctor who could
help my child. Where do you get the idea that I think all doctors are bad? I
have often said there are MANY dedicated doctors who carry a great
responsibility,,,,,,,,,and THANK GOD for them.

! It is organized medicine that I believe is relentless NOT individual
doctors! I happen to know and APPRECIATE many dedicated doctors.

. Just reading the history of *organized* medcine is an eye opener.
That certainly doesn't mean that we don't have very good dedicated doctors
that carry a great responsibility. Thank God for them. My concerns are that
there are many good alternative methods that are working, but are not being
accepted because they didn't come from the organization. In reading the history
The AMA tried to buy the methods they knew were working and when the seller
refused, he was told his method would never see the light of day. Then they set
out to ruin him personally One of these stories is about Dr Semmelweis who
introduced hand washing. He got the same treatment. One fair and honest doctor
said, let's give this young man a chance. After taking away his privileges and
trying to ruin him, he was later considered to be one of the best surgeons in
the world. The hesitation on the part of organized medicine cost some lives.

God Bless those many dedicated doctors who carry a great responsibility and
do their best by their patients.The problem is, there is *organized* medicine.
They would like to stop anything alt. and call it BS WITHOUT any proof.

Organized medicine does not mean we don't have very dedicated doctors. It
is much the same as politics. Anyone one who believes it isn't organized
should talk to a new dcotor who has just graduated. Medicine is indeed
organized mainly for control.

Quoted message said:

Oh? And you don't lump all pharmaceutical companies together? And '*organized

medicine*'?

That's correct, never have. I know a lot of doctors who are NOT a
part of organized medicine. They can tell you even MORE of the evils. And thank
God for dedicated doctors. Perhaps you overlooked that in my posts?

Not by me they're not. I respect good doctors. Many have certainly
earned respect. I have a neighbor who is in his third year of med school. He
isworking very hard and is a great guy. He also believes in alternative.
That's what I like to see.

Agreed! I just hope that both can keep an open mind. Both my Aunt and Uncle
have had back and neck surgery and they are doing fine. The surgeon is a great
guy and took time with the family after each operation.

Well you are wrong. I have never said I despised doctors, quite the
contary. Both my Aunt and Uncle recently had necessary surgery and the surgeon
was awonderful man who did a wonderful job.

How very true. For example one might think that I hate all MD's. Not so, I
am grateful for the good ones. My Aunt had back surgery this week. Her surgeon
was wonderful! He drew us a diagram of what he did, and took time for allour
questions. Next day, I called and someone answered. We were cutting up as he
told me he was Buba.(I didn't know I was talking to the doc) He then said, Oh
yeah this is Jan who is going to clean her house for the next two months.
He had picked up on the teasing of the day before when I told my uncle, that
I DIDN'T do dishes. A really nice guy who did a great job and very down to
earth. Wouldn't it be great if we could know the thoughts behind the words
here??
====

****Now, I will expect you to correct your mistake.******

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

===

You are falling for Rich's lies and adding to them. Alternative believing
people have nothing whatsoever to do with anti-semitism, Nazi's, bigots, or any
other names being called by the *gang*

Quoted message said:

Jan Drew says that it is not right for Jews to talk about the

Quoted message said:

Holocaust

No, that is NOT what I said. I said it is brought up over and over.

Quoted message said:

since no one here was involved in it. Then she blames Jews

Quoted message said:

of today as a group, for the crimes of some Jews from thousands of
years ago.

That is also a lie. Rich made it up. He can not copy and paste the proof of his
claim.

Quoted message said:

Yes, that is the saddest thing about her.

****Do copy and paste where I have said any such thing.*****

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Quoted message said:

Your, yes, is an example of Rich lies and you swear to it.

Quoted message said:

Prove me wrong.

Quoted message said:

Your bone to pick it because I tell the truth, and the truth causes unrest for

the guilty..

*****Now, I will expect you to prove both of your claims.*****

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

And you wonder why I call you a liar.

Jan

Cue for Rich to appear with more lies. Just watch*;*

Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John Bain

In any case I will continue to pray to Saint Jude, patron saint of lost causes,
that something will happen that prevents Jan from posting in thisnewsgroup
since praying that she will change would take more than a miracle.

Unfortunately my prayers have not yet been answered. However I believe that
there is justice in this world and soon my prayers will beanswered. I am
patient.

Aloha

Rich

Those "wonderful" doctors you "thank God" for went to medical school
-- the ones you say are run by "eeeevil organized medicine". They
prescribe the same drugs as other docs -- drugs made by the pharm
companies you've claimed are just as corrupt as those who decide the
curriculum at med school. They make mistakes just like any other
doctor.

The doctors who meet your approval are MD's who practice the kind of
medicine *you* approve of, with the bedside manner *you* think
appropriate. Docs who don't fit this category (& there are a LOT of
great MD's who certainly don't -- & many of us thank our deities for
that) are deemed part of some evil organization that you read about in
a sensationalistic book.

Thankfully, there are doctors out there -- competent, well-trained, &
caring -- who *don't* fit your idea of a "great" doc. My own PCP
would no doubt offend every bone in your body, beginning with his
customary greeting of "What the hell are you here for?" before he asks
about your family, remembers the activities you're involved with, &
thoroughly checks out whatever complaint you went into the office for.
He cusses quite often, has been known to tell patients with a chuckle
that "there's more wrong with you than I wanna tell ya" -- & routinely
goes out of his way to find ways to reduce costs of needed meds for
his patients, show an elderly patient how to inject her insulin, or
spend a few minutes simply talking with a patient to find out what may
actually lie behind a complaint. He's abrasive, with definite
opinions about various treatments -- but nobody worries about
offending him by telling him they think otherwise. Many people would
never pick such an MD -- but with a full waiting room & patients who
have confidence in his abilities & knowledge, a lot of us have found a
great doctor for ourselves.

The only thing that matters when it comes to practicing medicine is
the doc's competence & his/her ethics. *Most* doctors, nurses,
pharmacists, & others in the conventional health care field do just
fine in those categories. Of course, that doesn't sell books, though
-- does it??

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (Michele)

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

Not Michele.

Quoted message said:

From: Orac [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >Date: 2/22/2004 2:08 PM Pacific Standard Time
> >Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

> >You seem to be very fond of calling people liars.
>
> I didn't think you could.

Could what?

Keep reading, it is right there in the post you copied.

Quoted message said:

>Just chalk it up to another false accusations,
> that can't be proven.
>
> I call the liars on this ng when they lie.

No you don't. You call people liars when you don't like what they say.

There it is, now that's another claim for you to prove, and you still

haven''t

Quoted message said:

proven the ones from last night.

Quoted message said:

Hint:
>
> Lying is rampant here. Please stop.

Rampant?

Yep.

Now as a reminder:

You still have not correct your mistake after accusing me of same and you

have

Quoted message said:

NOT posted proof of your claims and your belief of the lies from Rich.

What is taking so long?
==

Quoted message said:

Anyone who would defend Jan Drew given her statements is as EVIL as
> she is IMO. Jan Drew's usefulness in this group is to identify those
> who agree with her or support her as despicable human beings.

*I don't really think Jan is necessarily evil. She is, however, so
blinded by her hatred of conventional medicine*

That is a repeated LIE!!!!

It has been proven, but it is still repeated.

From: Jan ([email hidden])
Subject: Re: Why Amalgam?
Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry
Date: 2003-09-01 22:27:29 PST

You must not be aware of my posts of MHA. It is *organized* medicine that

is

Quoted message said:

evil, not conventional. I know quite a few good dedicated doctors and Thank

God

Quoted message said:

for them. Here are a few of my posts that will hopefully help you to

understand

Quoted message said:

my position.

From: Jan ([email hidden])
Subject: Re: Medical Errors Kill up to 98,000 Hospitalized Americans per

Year/

Quoted message said:

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2002-02-15 18:15:56 PST

Someone asked :

Quoted message said:

what is the difference (as far as you are concerned) between "evil

organized

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

med" and conventional med?

It's the organization itself that is evil. Going way back you'll learn how

they

Quoted message said:

operate. How they control using politics. Controlling what is taught is

medical

Quoted message said:

schools. Suppressings of alternatives. Ye good ole boy club EGO thing.

There

Quoted message said:

are many good and dedicated medical people in conventional medicine, that

are

Quoted message said:

NOT members of the organization.

We have a few examples of organized members right here. Take a look at how
Peter B. lied in his article on Ben Kolb. Then there are those who defend

his

Quoted message said:

lies. Another is Peter Moran. He denies anything that doesn't come from
organized medicine. The NCAHF and Stephen Barrett play a big role. Who

suffers

Quoted message said:

from all of this? The American people.

From: Jan ([email hidden])
Subject: Re: Re Why are people turning to alt. medicine?
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Date: 2002-02-02 19:24:24 PST

That's where everyone takes me wrong. I have often explained that I
appreciate the many dedicated doctors we have and the wonderful technology.
NOTall doctors or medical people are a part of the organization. As a

matter of

Quoted message said:

fact many fight against it and can tell some whoppers.The*organization*

itself

Quoted message said:

is where the evil lies. Read about it in Racketeering in Medicine.

What is so strange about that? I have stated many times the evils of
organized medicine, I have also stated that there are many good dedicated
doctors who carry a hugh responsibility, and THANK GOD for them. My young
doctor is very dedicated as is my CRA's hubby who just graduated from med
school. Both will tell you the evils of organized medicine.

My heart goes out to the dedicated medical people, God Bless them.

I can see how you would get that idea for just one post. However previously
Ihave made it plain that I appreciated the great responsibility of
dedicated doctors. It is the *organization* that is the problem. Many

doctors

Quoted message said:

are NOT apart of it, and they will tell you of even more of the evils.

Bad doctors? To answer your question. Yes I would either call 911 or rush

the

Quoted message said:

child to the ER room. And I would greatly appreciated the doctor who could
help my child. Where do you get the idea that I think all doctors are bad?

I

Quoted message said:

have often said there are MANY dedicated doctors who carry a great
responsibility,,,,,,,,,and THANK GOD for them.

! It is organized medicine that I believe is relentless NOT individual
doctors! I happen to know and APPRECIATE many dedicated doctors.

. Just reading the history of *organized* medcine is an eye opener.
That certainly doesn't mean that we don't have very good dedicated doctors
that carry a great responsibility. Thank God for them. My concerns are that
there are many good alternative methods that are working, but are not being
accepted because they didn't come from the organization. In reading the

history

Quoted message said:

The AMA tried to buy the methods they knew were working and when the seller
refused, he was told his method would never see the light of day. Then they

set

Quoted message said:

out to ruin him personally One of these stories is about Dr Semmelweis who
introduced hand washing. He got the same treatment. One fair and honest

doctor

Quoted message said:

said, let's give this young man a chance. After taking away his privileges

and

Quoted message said:

trying to ruin him, he was later considered to be one of the best surgeons

in

Quoted message said:

the world. The hesitation on the part of organized medicine cost some

lives.

Quoted message said:

God Bless those many dedicated doctors who carry a great responsibility and
do their best by their patients.The problem is, there is *organized*

medicine.

Quoted message said:

They would like to stop anything alt. and call it BS WITHOUT any proof.

Organized medicine does not mean we don't have very dedicated doctors. It
is much the same as politics. Anyone one who believes it isn't organized
should talk to a new dcotor who has just graduated. Medicine is indeed
organized mainly for control.

Quoted message said:

Oh? And you don't lump all pharmaceutical companies together? And

'*organized

Quoted message said:

medicine*'?

That's correct, never have. I know a lot of doctors who are NOT a
part of organized medicine. They can tell you even MORE of the evils. And

thank

Quoted message said:

God for dedicated doctors. Perhaps you overlooked that in my posts?

Not by me they're not. I respect good doctors. Many have certainly
earned respect. I have a neighbor who is in his third year of med school.

He

Quoted message said:

isworking very hard and is a great guy. He also believes in alternative.
That's what I like to see.

Agreed! I just hope that both can keep an open mind. Both my Aunt and Uncle
have had back and neck surgery and they are doing fine. The surgeon is a

great

Quoted message said:

guy and took time with the family after each operation.

Well you are wrong. I have never said I despised doctors, quite the
contary. Both my Aunt and Uncle recently had necessary surgery and the

surgeon

Quoted message said:

was awonderful man who did a wonderful job.

How very true. For example one might think that I hate all MD's. Not so, I
am grateful for the good ones. My Aunt had back surgery this week. Her

surgeon

Quoted message said:

was wonderful! He drew us a diagram of what he did, and took time for

allour

Quoted message said:

questions. Next day, I called and someone answered. We were cutting up as

he

Quoted message said:

told me he was Buba.(I didn't know I was talking to the doc) He then said,

Oh

Quoted message said:

yeah this is Jan who is going to clean her house for the next two months.
He had picked up on the teasing of the day before when I told my uncle,

that

Quoted message said:

I DIDN'T do dishes. A really nice guy who did a great job and very down to
earth. Wouldn't it be great if we could know the thoughts behind the words
here??
====

****Now, I will expect you to correct your mistake.******

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

===

You are falling for Rich's lies and adding to them. Alternative believing
people have nothing whatsoever to do with anti-semitism, Nazi's, bigots, or

any

Quoted message said:

other names being called by the *gang*

Quoted message said:

Jan Drew says that it is not right for Jews to talk about the
> Holocaust

No, that is NOT what I said. I said it is brought up over and over.

Quoted message said:

since no one here was involved in it. Then she blames Jews
> of today as a group, for the crimes of some Jews from thousands of
> years ago.

That is also a lie. Rich made it up. He can not copy and paste the proof of

his

Quoted message said:

claim.

Quoted message said:

Yes, that is the saddest thing about her.

****Do copy and paste where I have said any such thing.*****

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Quoted message said:

Your, yes, is an example of Rich lies and you swear to it.

Quoted message said:

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your, yes, is an example of Rich lies and you swear to it.

Quoted message said:

Prove me wrong.

Quoted message said:

Your bone to pick it because I tell the truth, and the truth causes unrest
for

Quoted message said:

the guilty..

*****Now, I will expect you to prove both of your claims.*****

Quoted message said:

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Quoted message said:

And you wonder why I call you a liar.

Quoted message said:

Jan

Quoted message said:

Cue for Rich to appear with more lies. Just watch*;*

Quoted message said:

Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John

Bain

Quoted message said:

In any case I will continue to pray to Saint Jude, patron saint of lost

causes,

Quoted message said:

that something will happen that

Quoted message said:

prevents Jan from posting in thisnewsgroup

Quoted message said:

since praying that she will change would take more than a miracle.

Unfortunately my prayers have not yet been answered. However I believe that

Quoted message said:

there is justice in this world and soon my prayers will beanswered. I a

patient.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Aloha

Rich

<snip rant from Michele>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (Michele)

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

Not Michele..........

Hey Jannie, it's usenet, not jannet. If you don't want to read Michele's
posts, then don't. So why don't you (and I quote Jannie) "Butt out"

carabelli

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (Michele)

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

Not Michele.

Fortunately for all here, you are nothing more than a retired
babysitter who vents your frustration at not having your little
charges to order about by trying it with others here on this NG.
While interjecting into threads that didn't address you, you then try
(albeit without ANY success) to stop others from having the same
freedom of speech you have. Good thing that your authority is zip,
eh?

MHA is a PUBLIC forum, toots. You parade your bigoted ignorance &
semi-literacy around here like it's something to be proud of & I fully
support your right to show yourself to be a really stupid loon. I've
never told you to elsewhere -- and I never would. I'd much rather
have your kind of people out in the open where decent people can keep
an eye on you. But if you want *private* debate with another poster,
e-mail 'em. Otherwise, get bent.

I noted you can't actually respond to my point about doctors & your
claims about EOM. I knew you couldn't. Your POV WRT the subject is
shown to be pretty lame & anybody can tell it has more holes in it
than Swiss cheese.

I feel sorry for you while at the same time realizing that you don't
deserve such an allowance. You are a bigot & a hypocrite with little
to show for your claims of being a Christian. Your sense of humor
left you a long time ago (probably about the same time your mental
incontinence started), & your only responses to most folks you
disagree with is to snip their posts to dishonestly change their
meaning or tell them they shouldn't post here. That would make you
un-American as well.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!
From: [email hidden] (Michele)
Date: 2/24/2004 1:37 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (Michele)

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

Not Michele.

Quoted message said:

Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

NOT Michele.

<snip [censored], lies and belittling that Michele enjoys>

Jan

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!
From: [email hidden] (Michele)
Date: 2/24/2004 1:37 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

>Subject: Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>From: [email hidden] (Michele)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Subject: Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

Not Michele.

Quoted message said:

Re: : HELLOOOOOOOO ORAC!!!!!!!

NOT Michele.

<snip [censored], lies and belittling that Michele enjoys>

Jan

Jan proves everything I said in my previous post. Jan tries to deny
other posters the chance to express themselves by dishonestly snipping
what they write.

I've asked Jan what she's done (besides whine & snivel) about the
problems she sees in conventional health care. Her response? Silence.
I've debated Jan about her claims of EOM. Her response? More
silence. It's plain that when it's time to put up or shut up, Jan
shuts up.

Of course Jan is quite verbal when it comes to her anti-Semetism, her
unproven rhetoric, & her hypocritical lecturing of others for doing
what she herself engages in on a regular basis.

Jan will no doubt continue to spout off to and about those she claims
to have killfiled -- she will just do so indirectly. This fools
nobody, but it makes Jan feel good......

Nobody belittles Jan more than she belittles herself.