Re: Chelation Clinics

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004" [email hidden]
Date: 1/20/2004 3:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Plus debunkers of the past.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Quackery wins
From: [email hidden] (Mark)
Date: 1/20/2004 9:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote

> Bzzz. Fart. Hiccup. Burp. "Where's my spittoon, Jimmy?"

Very informative.

Quoted message said:

(Actually, Jan didn't say this, but it makes as much sense as what she

did

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

write.)

Hardly.

These Clinics are busy. if one wants to know about chealtion, go ask

someone

Quoted message said:

with ACTUAL experience.

Debunkers would like to ignore all the Clinics providing chelation.

WRONG!

Debunkers would like to see these CHEATlation clinics closed,

B I N G O!!!!

EVIL organized medicine in action and failing.

NO concern for health issues, just a big EGO game.

http://www.cancure.org/directory_clinics.htm

http://www.discoverlifetime.net/chelation/chelation-information.php

erwise just do some research on the web.

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/Default.htm

Forthy five studies on this website!!!

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page2.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page3.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page4.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page5.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page6.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page7.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page8.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page9.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page10.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page11.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study2/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study3/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study4/Default.htm

http://drcranton.com/index.html

http://www.medicomm.net/Consumer%20Site/am/chelation.htm

http://drcranton.com/chelation/allgood.htm

http://www.bioprobe.com/reviews.asp?review_id=11

http://www.decaturmed.com/articles/chelation.cfm

http://www.detoxamin.com/Studies/study8/page2.html

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004" [email hidden]
Date: 1/20/2004 3:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Plus debunkers of the past.

>Subject: Re: Quackery wins
>From: [email hidden] (Mark)
>Date: 1/20/2004 9:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email hidden]>
>
>[email hidden] (Jan) wrote
>
>
>> Bzzz. Fart. Hiccup. Burp. "Where's my spittoon, Jimmy?"

Very informative.

>(Actually, Jan didn't say this, but it makes as much sense as what she

did

Quoted message said:

>write.)

Hardly.

These Clinics are busy. if one wants to know about chealtion, go ask

someone

Quoted message said:

with ACTUAL experience.

Debunkers would like to ignore all the Clinics providing chelation.

WRONG!

Debunkers would like to see these CHEATlation clinics closed,

B I N G O!!!!

EVIL organized medicine in action and failing.

NO concern for health issues, just a big EGO game.

That is a lie. I explained in detail why this is a medical issue, and you
snipped it. So, I will repeat it...

Thee has never been a study published showing that CHEATlation opens clogged
arteries. Thus, any benefit is symptomatic and does not affect the
underlying disease. This will cause a person to be lulled into a false sense
of security and possibly die.

Quoted message said:

http://www.cancure.org/directory_clinics.htm

http://www.discoverlifetime.net/chelation/chelation-information.php

erwise just do some research on the web.

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/Default.htm

Forthy five studies on this website!!!

On above site is a study:

A Nonsurgical Approach to Obstructive Carotid Stenosis Using EDTA Chelation
by C.J. Rudolph, DO, PhD, E.W. McDonagh, DO, ACGP, and R.K. Barber, BS,
ACSM, ETT

where carotid stenosis was treated with chelation and tested before and
after with ultrasound. I wonder if the results are significant? Perhaps
someone with special training can interpret them.

another one...1964!

Chelation Therapy of Occlusive Arteriosclerosis in Diabetic Patients
by Carlos P. Lamar, MD, F.I.C.A.

and others, which are all over 40 years old..hardly proof...

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

.hardly proof...

First there are no studies, then no proof.

So typical of lying debunkers.

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/Default.htm

Forthy five studies on this website!!!

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page2.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page3.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page4.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page5.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page6.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page7.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page8.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page9.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page10.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page11.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study2/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study3/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study4/Default.htm

http://drcranton.com/index.html

http://www.medicomm.net/Consumer%20Site/am/chelation.htm

http://drcranton.com/chelation/allgood.htm

http://www.bioprobe.com/reviews.asp?review_id=11

http://www.decaturmed.com/articles/chelation.cfm

http://www.detoxamin.com/Studies/study8/page2.html

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

.hardly proof...

First there are no studies, then no proof.

I have yet to see a current study using modern technology which shows an
opening of the coronary arteries. IIRC, NCAAM is funding a study which may
address this issue. If so, and it shows that there is no effect, are you
willing to accept the findings that there is no effect?

Note, if the study shows that there is an positive effect on the narrowing
of the arteries, I wil GLADLY accept it. In fact, I will advocate that more
research be done to fdind ways to improve the treatment.

IOW, can you accept being wrong? I can.

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote

<snip>

Quoted message said:

...just do some research on the web.

<snip>

"Just do some research on the WEB?!?!"

Are you kidding me? Do you seriously propose that what you find on
the Internet can be taken as Gospel when it concerns health and
medical matters?

How about consulting actual scientific literature instead?

Mark, MD

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004" [email hidden]
Date: 1/21/2004 2:45 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

.hardly proof...

First there are no studies, then no proof.

I have yet to see a current study using modern technology which shows an
opening of the coronary arteries.

Yes, Mark Thorson.

Keep repeating.

I'll keep posting the studies.

Not for the closeed minded *gang*, but for others who may foolishly believe
your lies.

Jan

http://www.cancure.org/directory_clinics.htm

http://www.discoverlifetime.net/chelation/chelation-information.php

erwise just do some research on the web.

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/Default.htm

Forthy five studies on this website!!!

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page2.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page3.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page4.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page5.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page6.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page7.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page8.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page9.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page10.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page11.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study2/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study3/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study4/Default.htm

http://drcranton.com/index.html

http://www.medicomm.net/Consumer%20Site/am/chelation.htm

http://drcranton.com/chelation/allgood.htm

http://www.bioprobe.com/reviews.asp?review_id=11

http://www.decaturmed.com/articles/chelation.cfm

http://www.detoxamin.com/Studies/study8/page2.html

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: [email hidden] (Mark)
Date: 1/21/2004 11:00 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

[email hidden] (Jan) wrote

<snip>

Quoted message said:

...just do some research on the web.

<snip>

"Just do some research on the WEB?!?!"

Are you kidding me?

Nope.

http://www.cancure.org/directory_clinics.htm

http://www.discoverlifetime.net/chelation/chelation-information.php

erwise just do some research on the web.

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/Default.htm

Forthy five studies on this website!!!

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page2.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page3.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page4.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page5.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page6.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page7.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page8.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page9.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page10.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page11.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study2/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study3/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study4/Default.htm

http://drcranton.com/index.html

http://www.medicomm.net/Consumer%20Site/am/chelation.htm

http://drcranton.com/chelation/allgood.htm

http://www.bioprobe.com/reviews.asp?review_id=11

http://www.decaturmed.com/articles/chelation.cfm

http://www.detoxamin.com/Studies/study8/page2.html

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: [email hidden] (Mark)
Date: 1/21/04 2:00 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Just do some research on the WEB?!?!"

Are you kidding me? Do you seriously propose that what you find on
the Internet can be taken as Gospel when it concerns health and
medical matters?

How about consulting actual scientific literature instead?

Mark, MD

Scientific literature is fine.

Medical literature is not scientific and a waste of time.

It is just one "good ole boy" patting another "good ole boy" on the back.

DrC PhD.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(DRCEEPHD) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: [email hidden] (Mark)
Date: 1/21/04 2:00 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Just do some research on the WEB?!?!"

Are you kidding me? Do you seriously propose that what you find on
the Internet can be taken as Gospel when it concerns health and
medical matters?

How about consulting actual scientific literature instead?

Mark, MD

Scientific literature is fine.

Medical literature is not scientific and a waste of time.

How about this? We could summarize a few studies investigating alt med
and perhaps you could then tell us what is "nonscientific" about them.
But you'll have to be specific. Just labeling a study with a vague
statement that it's "unscientific" is not adequate, especially if it's
done without explanation. It's too easy. Anyone can do it. So here's
your chance to use that Ph.D. you claim you have. Let me or Mark pick a
study or two, and you can use that Ph.D. to show us what specific
aspects of specific studies are "nonscientific" and why. When possible,
I'd even be willing to e-mail you the PDF file containing the article
under discussion. (I can't post it to Usenet, as that would violate U.S.
copyright law.)

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004" [email hidden]
Date: 1/21/2004 2:45 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
>From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004"

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>.hardly proof...

First there are no studies, then no proof.

I have yet to see a current study using modern technology which shows an
opening of the coronary arteries.

Yes, Mark Thorson.

Keep repeating.

I'll keep posting the studies.

Not for the closeed minded *gang*, but for others who may foolishly

believe

Quoted message said:

your lies.

I claim that there is no current study using modern technology which shows
that CHEATlation actually opens arteries and increases the diagmeter of the
lumina.

Now, you can prove that this statement is incorrect by posting one study
that refutes it.

However, since I beleive that my statement is true, even if you find a study
that refutes it,it is still not a lie.

However, you, as usual, wil not understand this.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004" [email hidden]
Date: 1/21/2004 2:45 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
>From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004" [email hidden]

>.hardly proof...

First there are no studies, then no proof.

I have yet to see a current study using modern technology which shows an
opening of the coronary arteries.

Yes, Mark Thorson.

Keep repeating.

No, Jan, it is you that is stuck on "Repeat", as in "Rage, Belittle, Repeat".
You were in such a hurry to belittle that you can't even be bothered to target
the "right" Mark.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 22, 2004" [email hidden]
Date: 1/22/2004 2:58 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004" [email hidden]
Date: 1/21/2004 2:45 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> >Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
> >From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004"

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> >.hardly proof...
>
> First there are no studies, then no proof.

I have yet to see a current study using modern technology which shows an
opening of the coronary arteries.

Yes, Mark Thorson.

Keep repeating.

I'll keep posting the studies.

Not for the closed minded *gang*, but for others who may foolishly believe
your lies.

I claim that there is no current study using modern technology which shows
that CHEATlation

There is no such thing as cheatlation.

You are repeating yourelf, because you prefer to remain in denial.

There are studies and they have been posted.

http://www.cancure.org/directory_clinics.htm

http://www.discoverlifetime.net/chelation/chelation-information.php

erwise just do some research on the web.

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/Default.htm

Forthy five studies on this website!!!

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page2.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page3.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page4.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page5.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page6.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page7.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page8.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page9.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page10.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page11.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study2/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study3/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study4/Default.htm

http://drcranton.com/index.html

http://www.medicomm.net/Consumer%20Site/am/chelation.htm

http://drcranton.com/chelation/allgood.htm

http://www.bioprobe.com/reviews.asp?review_id=11

http://www.decaturmed.com/articles/chelation.cfm

http://www.detoxamin.com/Studies/study8/page2.html

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: [email hidden] (Ilsa9)
Date: 1/22/2004 6:23 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004" [email hidden]
Date: 1/21/2004 2:45 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> >Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
> >From: "Mark ProbertJanuary 20, 2004" [email hidden]
>
> >.hardly proof...
>
> First there are no studies, then no proof.

I have yet to see a current study using modern technology which shows an
opening of the coronary arteries.

Yes, Mark Thorson.

Keep repeating.

No, Jan

Yes, Andrew.

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 1/22/2004 1:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

There are studies and they have been posted.

http://www.cancure.org/directory_

no studies on this site

but I was amazed to read so many familiar names....many NP friends have worked
with this quack (calls himself a consultant)...none stayed more than a short
time...description of what one did "magic,,"

also reading list of "staff" revealed only one duly licensed practitioner,,and
he was part time

but then how would you know how to evaluate the validity of info presented on a
commercial site pimping for business??
hawki

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 1/22/2004 1:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.discoverlifetime.net/chelation/chelation-information.php

no studies

but nice pictures of a checkbook and credit cards and mention of "becoming a
millionaire"

these folks care only about the bottom line...perhaps they would chelate my dog

hawki

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 1/22/2004 1:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/Default.htm

again...info provided on the same page advertising "some potion" for $197..is
suspect

anyhoo....these are not studies...published in "medical hypothesis"....know
what a hypothesis is???

retrospective means "let's look at some charts and GUESS"

these are not scientific

repeat alll you want...just makes you look like an ignorant lunatic

hawki

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: [email hidden] (Hawki63)
Date: 1/22/2004 4:22 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 1/22/2004 1:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

There are studies and they have been posted.

http://www.cancure.org/directory_

no studies on this site

You came in late on the discussion. It is typical of you to find something
wrong.

A pity it shows you real reason to be here.

Quoted message said:

but I was amazed to read so many familiar names....many NP friends have
worked
with this quack (calls himself a consultant)...none stayed more than a short
time...description of what one did "magic,,"

Sorry, anecdontes can''t be believed according to the *gang*. Since you are a
part, why are you posting one? Double standards??

Quoted message said:

also reading list of "staff" revealed only one duly licensed practitioner,,and
he was part time

Go back and reread.

Quoted message said:

but then how would you know how to evaluate the validity of info presented on
a commercial site pimping for business??

I am sorry you feel the need to always call others dumb, in order to build
yourself up. Must be terrible to be so jealous.

Studies were done, results were shown.

Organized medicine calls it pimping.

Typical and sad.

Jan

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/Default.htm

Forthy five studies on this website!!!

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page2.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page3.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page4.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page5.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page6.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page7.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page8.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page9.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page10.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study1/page11.html

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study2/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study3/Default.htm

http://www.chelationforlife.com/Studies/study4/Default.htm

http://drcranton.com/index.html

http://www.medicomm.net/Consumer%20Site/am/chelation.htm

http://drcranton.com/chelation/allgood.htm

http://www.bioprobe.com/reviews.asp?review_id=11

http://www.decaturmed.com/articles/chelation.cfm

http://www.detoxamin.com/Studies/study8/page2.html

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: [email hidden] (Hawki63)
Date: 1/22/2004 4:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 1/22/2004 1:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.discoverlifetime.net/chelation/chelation-information.php

no studies

Go back and read the thread.

Try to follow.

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Chelation Clinics
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 1/22/2004 5:16 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but I was amazed to read so many familiar names....many NP friends have
worked
with this quack (calls himself a consultant)...none stayed more than a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

also reading list of "staff" revealed only one duly licensed

practitioner,,and

Quoted message said:

he was part time

Go back and reread.

I was referring to the specific clinic I know about....not an ancedote when
"licensed reputable professionals" that I know take a jjob....and run for the
hills in a day or so..so appalled are they are what the "victims" are being
promised...

also..this place has ONE part time doc...another as "consultant" only...sorry
but I refuse to give professional status to anyone else listed who does not
hold a license recognized in this state...

hawki