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Naturopathic Doctors

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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16 January 2004
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2 February 2004
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  1. Apparently the State of California's legislature late in 2003 passed a
    licensing law, whereby only graduates of the three accredited 4-year
    Naturopathic schools in the US & maybe one or two in Canada can be
    licensed in the State by passing a board examination. The current
    naturopaths who are not graduates of those accredited schools can
    continue to practice, but apparently no longer can use the title "N.D.",
    as in "Doctor". Additionally, pursuant to the new law, the newly
    licensed "Naturopathic Doctors" are now allowed to do certain additional
    things in their practice that the "Naturopaths" cannot, such as very
    minor "surgery", etc. Apparently, relatively few practicing N.D.'s
    qualify for licensing in California as, at least educationally, they
    don't meet the new law's requirements.

    I also found that only 13 states plus a couple of U.S. Territories have
    licensing laws for Naturopaths, but I don't know how similar they are to
    California.

    This makes me curious as to what kind of professional education one
    would run into if it wasn't from one of the few accredited schools.
    What is the "norm"?

  2. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Apparently the State of California's legislature late in 2003 passed a
    licensing law, whereby only graduates of the three accredited 4-year
    Naturopathic schools in the US & maybe one or two in Canada can be
    licensed in the State by passing a board examination. The current
    naturopaths who are not graduates of those accredited schools can
    continue to practice, but apparently no longer can use the title "N.D.",
    as in "Doctor". Additionally, pursuant to the new law, the newly
    licensed "Naturopathic Doctors" are now allowed to do certain additional
    things in their practice that the "Naturopaths" cannot, such as very
    minor "surgery", etc. Apparently, relatively few practicing N.D.'s
    qualify for licensing in California as, at least educationally, they
    don't meet the new law's requirements.

    I also found that only 13 states plus a couple of U.S. Territories have
    licensing laws for Naturopaths, but I don't know how similar they are to
    California.

    This makes me curious as to what kind of professional education one
    would run into if it wasn't from one of the few accredited schools.
    What is the "norm"?

    There are mail order programs. One of the most notorious Not-a-Docotr's is
    Hulda Clark who has one.

  3. Quoted message said:


    Apparently the State of California's legislature late in 2003 passed a
    licensing law, whereby only graduates of the three accredited 4-year
    Naturopathic schools in the US & maybe one or two in Canada can be
    licensed in the State by passing a board examination. The current
    naturopaths who are not graduates of those accredited schools can
    continue to practice, but apparently no longer can use the title "N.D.",
    as in "Doctor". Additionally, pursuant to the new law, the newly
    licensed "Naturopathic Doctors" are now allowed to do certain additional
    things in their practice that the "Naturopaths" cannot, such as very
    minor "surgery", etc. Apparently, relatively few practicing N.D.'s
    qualify for licensing in California as, at least educationally, they
    don't meet the new law's requirements.

    I also found that only 13 states plus a couple of U.S. Territories have
    licensing laws for Naturopaths, but I don't know how similar they are to
    California.

    This makes me curious as to what kind of professional education one
    would run into if it wasn't from one of the few accredited schools.
    What is the "norm"?

    Kathy, there are two main types that represent the "Norm" outside of the few 4
    year graduates. The first are people who think like Chuck, aka DrCEEPhD. They
    read a few things about auto-toxicity, failure/corruption/personal
    misconduction in some aspect of healthcare, and decide that the old ways were
    right and the new ways are a conspiracy. They root their beliefs in stuff from
    the "golden age" of medicine, the 1800's.

    The second group are a bunch of people who got a mail order degree from a
    church affliated group. Their doctrine is not as conspiracy based, but their
    methods aren't too far apart from them.

    Their diagnostic methods range from iridology, muscle testing (applied
    kinesiology), aura diagnosis (kirlian photography), palpation, tongue/pulse
    readings, and galvanic skin response. Their treatment methods usually include
    some sort of supplements (vitamins, amino acids, or some "nutraceutical"😉, some
    sort of cleanse (colon, liver, kidey, lung, lymph), some sort of dietary
    recomendation (don't eat X, eat more of Y, don't eat X & Z together), and of
    course Zappers, Rife Machines, Colonics, homeopathics, herbal formulas,
    affirmations/mantras.

    In some cases, you may find someone with a good combination of
    Massage/Chiropractic/Physical therapy along with some practical nutrition and
    exercise advice. In most cases, you'll get someone whose practice is rooted in
    old belief systems and not aligned with science. The advice can range from
    silly (don't use fluorescent lights) to pernicious (vaccines don't work,
    viruses don't cause disease, etc).

    The norm is very inconsistent and quite frankly, scarily dangerous.

  4. Researching further, it was estimated that of about 2,000 N.D.'s
    practicng in California last year, only somewhere between 60 & 200 would
    currently be eligible for licensing. I presume the balance would be
    likely either mail-order or on-line graduates as I'm not aware of any
    brick & mortar schools in California that offer on-site N.D. degrees,
    even of less than 4-years duration. But please correct me if my
    assumption is incorrect.

  5. The other strange thing about this new California l N D. licensing law
    is that those graduates of the few accredited Naturopathic institutions
    (one each in Portland, Oregon, Seattle, WA, Tempe, AZ, & perhaps the
    not-quite-accredited one in Bridgeport, CN) will now be able to
    prescribe "pharmacy drugs" (the stuiff Pfizer & Merck, et al produce),
    but only under the auspices of a M.D. or D.O.

    However, it is clear from statements made by reps of their professional
    organizations & some N.D.'s themselvesthat helped push this law through
    that they will next (possibly within the next few years) try to get the
    licensed Natiropathic Doctors the power to be able to write pharmacy
    drug prescriptions on their own.

    So would this be "complementary medicine" in reverse??

  6. Four years of Naturopathic college to get licenced in Canada

    http://www.ccnm.edu/about.html

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Apparently the State of California's legislature late in 2003 passed a
    licensing law, whereby only graduates of the three accredited 4-year
    Naturopathic schools in the US & maybe one or two in Canada can be
    licensed in the State by passing a board examination. The current
    naturopaths who are not graduates of those accredited schools can
    continue to practice, but apparently no longer can use the title "N.D.",
    as in "Doctor". Additionally, pursuant to the new law, the newly
    licensed "Naturopathic Doctors" are now allowed to do certain additional
    things in their practice that the "Naturopaths" cannot, such as very
    minor "surgery", etc. Apparently, relatively few practicing N.D.'s
    qualify for licensing in California as, at least educationally, they
    don't meet the new law's requirements.

    I also found that only 13 states plus a couple of U.S. Territories have
    licensing laws for Naturopaths, but I don't know how similar they are to
    California.

    This makes me curious as to what kind of professional education one
    would run into if it wasn't from one of the few accredited schools.
    What is the "norm"?

  7. So does this mean that in Canada, one can still call themselves a
    "Naturopath" & practice as such even without govenment licensing, as
    that's the case now in California? Is there more than one accredited
    4-year Naturopathic College in Canada other than the one in Toronto?

  8. I believe Naturopathic Doctors have been regulated (licenced) in this
    country since the late 1800's. There are many ND colleges in Canada, maybe
    hundreds...I do not know.

    Since it is a legal title here you cannot call yourself a Naturopath (N.D.)
    if you are not licenced as one.

    Medical doctors can lose their licences here for practicing Naturopathic
    methods. My N.D. has a pHD in medicine and cannot practice medicine as he
    has chosen another practice. This does not hold true in reverse.

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    So does this mean that in Canada, one can still call themselves a
    "Naturopath" & practice as such even without govenment licensing, as
    that's the case now in California? Is there more than one accredited
    4-year Naturopathic College in Canada other than the one in Toronto?

  9. Well I since looked the matter up on some Canadian sites & its laws
    regarding naturopathic doctors & it appears that currently Canada has
    only one "accredited" college for that, the one in Toronto, with another
    waiting possible accrediting.

    Apparently four of its Provinces (& apparently none of its territories)
    currently license (they call it "register"😉 N.D.s, but ONLY after
    graduating from that one Toronto college (not sure whether they accept
    U.S. grads of our three accredited colleges, but I believe so), after
    which the graduates have to pass "rigorous" boards & annually continue
    their education to remain a Naturopathic Doctor in good-standing.

    So my question still is does Canada allow unregistered (not meeting the
    criteria in the immediately-preceding paragraph) "Naturopaths" to hang
    out their shingle?

  10. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Naturopathic Doctors
    From: "Gymmy Bob" [email hidden]
    Date: 1/18/2004 10:23 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    My N.D. has a pHD in medicine and cannot practice medicine as he
    has chosen another practice. This does not hold true in reverse.

    a PhD in medicine??? from where??

    no such thing in the US...yes an MD can be a PhD as well...but it is not in
    medicine..and Yes..they can practice "medicine"...
    hawki

  11. Well Jim, I sure can't come up with 100s of Naturopathic institutions of
    learning across Canada; did you make that up?

    Best I could do was:

    1) the accredited 4-year one one in Toronto mentioned previously;

    2) The Boucher Institute in Vancouver, B.C.,which is a 4-year school (&
    currently a candidate for being accredited, but that will be at least
    couple of years off, if it happens at all);

    3) a Canadian distant learning/correspondence school; and

    4) what sounds like a rather funky naturopathic school in Quebec.
    Apparently there are a few other similar schools there, as Quebec is a
    Province that does not regulate/license/register such things.

    BTW, Alberta was the most recent province to require
    licensing/registering of individuals who practice as Naturopathic
    DOCTORS, so now there's 5 rather than 4.

  12. I believe I answered that in my previous post.

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well I since looked the matter up on some Canadian sites & its laws
    regarding naturopathic doctors & it appears that currently Canada has
    only one "accredited" college for that, the one in Toronto, with another
    waiting possible accrediting.

    Apparently four of its Provinces (& apparently none of its territories)
    currently license (they call it "register"😉 N.D.s, but ONLY after
    graduating from that one Toronto college (not sure whether they accept
    U.S. grads of our three accredited colleges, but I believe so), after
    which the graduates have to pass "rigorous" boards & annually continue
    their education to remain a Naturopathic Doctor in good-standing.

    So my question still is does Canada allow unregistered (not meeting the
    criteria in the immediately-preceding paragraph) "Naturopaths" to hang
    out their shingle?

  13. Yes I did exagerate, I guess grossly. It was an assumption based on one
    Naturopathic college used to exist in my small town (folded now) and
    awareness of another in Toronto. I thought they would be more commonplace
    than this. we have many naturopathic Doctors here.

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well Jim, I sure can't come up with 100s of Naturopathic institutions of
    learning across Canada; did you make that up?

    Best I could do was:

    1) the accredited 4-year one one in Toronto mentioned previously;

    2) The Boucher Institute in Vancouver, B.C.,which is a 4-year school (&
    currently a candidate for being accredited, but that will be at least
    couple of years off, if it happens at all);

    3) a Canadian distant learning/correspondence school; and

    4) what sounds like a rather funky naturopathic school in Quebec.
    Apparently there are a few other similar schools there, as Quebec is a
    Province that does not regulate/license/register such things.

    BTW, Alberta was the most recent province to require
    licensing/registering of individuals who practice as Naturopathic
    DOCTORS, so now there's 5 rather than 4.

  14. I am aware of a few cases of M.Ds being charged and losing license in Canada
    for practicing "Unorthodox methods" M.D.s are not allowed to deviate from
    their formal teachings.

    "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Naturopathic Doctors
    From: "Gymmy Bob" [email hidden]
    Date: 1/18/2004 10:23 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    My N.D. has a pHD in medicine and cannot practice medicine as he
    has chosen another practice. This does not hold true in reverse.

    a PhD in medicine??? from where??

    no such thing in the US...yes an MD can be a PhD as well...but it is not


    in

    Quoted message said:

    medicine..and Yes..they can practice "medicine"...
    hawki

  15. "Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I am aware of a few cases of M.Ds being charged and losing license in


    Canada

    Quoted message said:

    for practicing "Unorthodox methods" M.D.s are not allowed to deviate from
    their formal teachings.

    I doubt this. What were the "unorthodox methods"? There must have been
    negligence involved.

    le m

    Quoted message said:


    "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Naturopathic Doctors
    From: "Gymmy Bob" [email hidden]
    Date: 1/18/2004 10:23 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    My N.D. has a pHD in medicine and cannot practice medicine as he
    has chosen another practice. This does not hold true in reverse.

    a PhD in medicine??? from where??

    no such thing in the US...yes an MD can be a PhD as well...but it is not


    in

    Quoted message said:

    medicine..and Yes..they can practice "medicine"...
    hawki

  16. We have degrees from Washington and two other states and Chiropractic
    degrees in general Chiro ,Sports Medicine and Orthopaedic Chiro.
    We do very well in both. Many in my family have pursed their dreams to
    practice holistic medicine rather than allopathic medicine.
    I must admit though that two of my brothers are of the M.D. persuasion
    and two others are lawyers and a sis is another sort of legal beagle.

    Quoted message said:

    Apparently the State of California's legislature late in 2003 passed a
    licensing law, whereby only graduates of the three accredited 4-year
    Naturopathic schools in the US & maybe one or two in Canada can be
    licensed in the State by passing a board examination. The current
    naturopaths who are not graduates of those accredited schools can
    continue to practice, but apparently no longer can use the title "N.D.",
    as in "Doctor". Additionally, pursuant to the new law, the newly
    licensed "Naturopathic Doctors" are now allowed to do certain additional
    things in their practice that the "Naturopaths" cannot, such as very
    minor "surgery", etc. Apparently, relatively few practicing N.D.'s
    qualify for licensing in California as, at least educationally, they
    don't meet the new law's requirements.

    I also found that only 13 states plus a couple of U.S. Territories have
    licensing laws for Naturopaths, but I don't know how similar they are to
    California.

    This makes me curious as to what kind of professional education one
    would run into if it wasn't from one of the few accredited schools.
    What is the "norm"?

  17. So do you practice as an N.D.? I presume if you practiced in California
    & the other licensing states (with perhaps at least six more on the
    horizon), you still couldn't be licensed as a" Doctor of Naturopathy"
    because your area of training is rather the chiropractic field?

    What are your other areas of expertise in the holistic health field? I
    ask this because I have an acquaintance in the Midwest (NOT in a
    licensing state)who consults a licensed chiropractor, but when they got
    into "dietary" matters for her & her daughters, her chiropractor
    referred them on to a N.D. who (supposedly) is an expert on this
    subject, though I know graduates of correspondence schools witout that
    much training can easily hang out shingle, particularly in non-licensing
    states

  18. We do both as practicing holistic healers. You fly under the chiro and
    add others to your resources.

    Quoted message said:

    So do you practice as an N.D.? I presume if you practiced in California
    & the other licensing states (with perhaps at least six more on the
    horizon), you still couldn't be licensed as a" Doctor of Naturopathy"
    because your area of training is rather the chiropractic field?

    What are your other areas of expertise in the holistic health field? I
    ask this because I have an acquaintance in the Midwest (NOT in a
    licensing state)who consults a licensed chiropractor, but when they got
    into "dietary" matters for her & her daughters, her chiropractor
    referred them on to a N.D. who (supposedly) is an expert on this
    subject, though I know graduates of correspondence schools witout that
    much training can easily hang out shingle, particularly in non-licensing
    states

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