Jan's crash

"M. Wehrmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ullrich in German TV:

" ... I didn't risk to much. That crash was caused by a greasy surface ... At that turn other
riders crashed, too ..."

Watch the replay. He pedaled.

In slippery turns, it is best to brake before turning, then coast through, neither pedaling or
braking when in the turn.

Pedaling or braking adds extra force to the tire patch, increasing the chances of losing traction.

K.. Gringioini

ps. If he didn't crash, he wasn't going to win the Tour anyway.

Gerrit Stolte said:

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Peschel

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He got multiple rip fractures and a collapse of the right lung ("pneumothorax" for the medical
professionals here) > emergency > hospital.

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Owe..bad stuff. I had that happen, and they had to staple my lung together with titanium staples.

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... and really *bad*: Peschel is reported to have refused to put out his shoes in the hospital,
stating that "I will race tomorrow". well ...

It's not *impossible* to ride with a collapsed lung, just painful and you don't have much breath.
Mine wasn't diagnosed immediately (idiot doctor thought it was asthma) and I kept riding - but
couldn't climb worth [censored].

--
David N. Welton Consulting: dedasys.comdedasys.comOpen ↗ Personal: dedasys.comdavidwOpen ↗ Free
Software: dedasys.comfreesoftwareOpen ↗ Apache Tcl: tcl.apache.orgtcl.apache.orgOpen ↗

"Tim South" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:qmyUa.6805$dO2.1527 @fe2.columbus.rr.com:

Quoted message said:

Yep,

All of you racing driver's/enthusiasts know about the "friction circle" and the "rain line".

How about explaining these terms for those of us who only race bikes? 🙂

TIA,

- Boyd S.

[email hidden] (David N. Welton) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

It's not *impossible* to ride with a collapsed lung, just painful and you don't have much breath.
Mine wasn't diagnosed immediately (idiot doctor thought it was asthma) and I kept riding - but
couldn't climb worth [censored].

If *you* couldn't climb worth [censored] with a collapsed lung, what are the odds of Peschel hanging onto
the back of the TDF peloton?

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"M. Wehrmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ullrich in German TV:

" ... I didn't risk to much. That crash was caused by a greasy surface ... At that turn other
riders crashed, too ..."

Quoted message said:

Watch the replay. He pedaled.

That is how it looked like to me on TV. On the other hand, Jalabert who was following him on the
motorcycle said that he lost the front wheel first. If this is true, then the crash is very probably
due to some oil or gasoil floating over the water.

I have ridden over more than enough french round-abouts with a motorbike to know thiss can be
deadly. Trucks often loose gasoil on round-abouts. I am however a little surprised the oil/gasoil
was not yet washed away after such a long and strong rain.

Benjamin

Benjamin Werner said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"M. Wehrmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ullrich in German TV:

" ... I didn't risk to much. That crash was caused by a greasy surface ... At that turn other
riders crashed, too ..."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Watch the replay. He pedaled.

That is how it looked like to me on TV. On the other hand, Jalabert who was following him on the
motorcycle said that he lost the front wheel first. If this is true, then the crash is very
probably due to some oil or gasoil floating over the water.

I have ridden over more than enough french round-abouts with a motorbike to know thiss can be
deadly. Trucks often loose gasoil on round-abouts. I am however a little surprised the oil/gasoil
was not yet washed away after such a long and strong rain.

Benjamin

Ja Ja also said Jan chose the wrong front wheel for the conditions, which effected handling
adversely.

He didn't think much of Jan's rainy day bike handling skills either, as opposed to LA, who he
compared to F1's Schumacher in the rain.

Zeno

"Boyd Speerschneider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (David N. Welton) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

It's not *impossible* to ride with a collapsed lung, just painful and you don't have much
breath. Mine wasn't diagnosed immediately (idiot doctor thought it was asthma) and I kept riding
- but couldn't climb worth [censored].

If *you* couldn't climb worth [censored] with a collapsed lung, what are the

odds

Quoted message said:

of Peschel hanging onto the back of the TDF peloton?

Peschel can make it. Tommorrow is champagne and parade day and the time is taken when they enter the
Champs. After they get on the Champs, Peschel just needs to finish all 10 laps.

David N. Welton said:

M. Wehrmann said:

Peschel

Quoted message said:

He got multiple rip fractures and a collapse of the right lung ("pneumothorax" for the medical
professionals here)

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emergency > hospital.

Owe..bad stuff. I had that happen, and they had to staple my lung together with titanium staples.

Is there any truth to the rumor that steel staples "give" better with your lung's expansion and
contraction? Aluminum, I assume, would be too rigid.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Uwe Peschel is one of the most underrated riders in the peloton. A man with a great talent and a not
so great turn of luck.

"M. Wehrmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ullrich in German TV:

" ... I didn't risk to much. That crash was caused by a greasy

surface ...

Quoted message said:

At that turn other riders crashed, too ..."

Uwe Peschel (Gerolsteiner) for example.

He got multiple rip fractures and a collapse of the right lung ("pneumothorax" for the medical
professionals here)

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emergency > hospital.

Manuel W

"Boyd Speerschneider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (David N. Welton) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

It's not *impossible* to ride with a collapsed lung, just painful

and

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you don't have much breath. Mine wasn't diagnosed immediately

(idiot

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doctor thought it was asthma) and I kept riding - but couldn't

climb

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worth [censored].

If *you* couldn't climb worth [censored] with a collapsed lung, what are

the odds

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of Peschel hanging onto the back of the TDF peloton?

It all depends on the actual problem. Moreover, the peloton is going to go really slow tomorrow in
all likelihood. This has been an intense Tour and the Green Jersey is still in contention.

COME ON BADEN!!!

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Boyd Speerschneider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (David N. Welton) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

It's not *impossible* to ride with a collapsed lung, just painful and you don't have much
breath. Mine wasn't diagnosed immediately (idiot doctor thought it was asthma) and I kept
riding - but couldn't climb worth [censored].

If *you* couldn't climb worth [censored] with a collapsed lung, what are the

odds

Quoted message said:

of Peschel hanging onto the back of the TDF peloton?

Peschel can make it. Tommorrow is champagne and parade day and the time is taken when they enter
the Champs. After they get on the Champs, Peschel just needs to finish all 10 laps.

Especially if he lays off the cigs.

-Gerard

Look at this link:

nyracer.comfriction.htmOpen ↗

Essentially, If you are using all of your tire's available traction in one direction, and then add
to the demands you loose control. For instance, braking very hard and then turning in while braking.
All of the tires available traction is used for braking, the introduced later force puts the
resultant required friction vector outside of the circle. This is why racecar drivers do all braking
in a straight line before entering the corner. Of course those truly great drivers can manage the
friction circle a little better and trail brake.

The rain line basically involves crossing the normal line in as close to 90 degree angles as
possible. This is due the polishing affect traffic has on the pavement. The off line surface is
usually rougher and offers more grip. There are obviously exceptions to this.

"Boyd Speerschneider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tim South" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:qmyUa.6805$dO2.1527 @fe2.columbus.rr.com:

Quoted message said:

Yep,

All of you racing driver's/enthusiasts know about the "friction circle"

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the "rain line".

How about explaining these terms for those of us who only race bikes? 🙂

TIA,

- Boyd S.

"Tim South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

The rain line basically involves crossing the normal line in as close to

90

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degree angles as possible. This is due the polishing affect traffic has

on

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the pavement. The off line surface is usually rougher and offers more grip. There are obviously
exceptions to this.

That defies logic. If the off line offers more grip, then people would use it as the racing line.

Also, rougher does not equate to more grip. More surface area (smoother) means more grip. That is
why slick tires provide the best grip, although in the rain, for motor racing, the tires must be
grooved to prevent hydroplaning. Hydroplaning on tires running 140 psi and a 1.5 sq in contact patch
is not a problem.