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Armstrong too subdued?

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Road Cycling
Published
23 July 2005
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23 July 2005
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Jet
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  1. Just once I'd like to see Armstrong get a little excited during the
    post-race interview; maybe an 'I kicked ass on the course today, didn't
    I?'...

    Wasn't even really smiling and when asked about his feelings about winning
    the stange said he was -ambivalent-. Ambivalent?!

    It's as though he really didn't care if he won a stage or not. Actually he
    said he didn't care and that at the time check he rode safely and
    conservatively.

    Interesting that he said his third win was the one where he was in the best
    shape as an athlete. Carmichael said he was in the best shape of his life
    last year - as a counterpoint.

    Well, beam him up. He's done racing. ;-/

    jj

  2. Jet said:

    Just once I'd like to see Armstrong get a little excited during the
    post-race interview; maybe an 'I kicked ass on the course today, didn't
    I?'...

    Wasn't even really smiling and when asked about his feelings about winning
    the stange said he was -ambivalent-. Ambivalent?!

    That was a bad choice of words, I agree. You could tell the way he was
    riding - sprinting towards the time checks, for example - that he
    wanted the win and he wanted it badly. I think he was trying to avoid
    sounding arrogant, but it was definitely the wrong word to use.

    Quoted message said:


    It's as though he really didn't care if he won a stage or not. Actually he
    said he didn't care and that at the time check he rode safely and
    conservatively.

    Interesting that he said his third win was the one where he was in the best
    shape as an athlete. Carmichael said he was in the best shape of his life
    last year - as a counterpoint.

    If Lance was in his best shape for the '01 Tour, that means he won the
    last four Tours not at the top of his game - that's got to be tough for
    his opponents to think about.

    Quoted message said:

    Well, beam him up. He's done racing. ;-/

    Lance has earned himself a place in the history books as one of the
    greatest Tour riders ever - he's a genuine American hero and
    inspiration....well done, Lance.

    mj

  3. Jet said:

    Just once I'd like to see Armstrong get a little excited during the
    post-race interview; maybe an 'I kicked ass on the course today, didn't
    I?'...

    Wasn't even really smiling and when asked about his feelings about winning
    the stange said he was -ambivalent-. Ambivalent?!

    It's as though he really didn't care if he won a stage or not. Actually he
    said he didn't care and that at the time check he rode safely and
    conservatively.

    Interesting that he said his third win was the one where he was in the best
    shape as an athlete. Carmichael said he was in the best shape of his life
    last year - as a counterpoint.

    Well, beam him up. He's done racing. ;-/

    jj

    So why was he picking at his shorts on the TT circuit? Did he explain that?

  4. "Jet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Just once I'd like to see Armstrong get a little excited during the
    post-race interview; maybe an 'I kicked ass on the course today, didn't
    I?'...

    I seem to recall a few of those post-race comments last year ... like when
    he clipped Kloden on the line, etc.

    Quoted message said:

    Wasn't even really smiling and when asked about his feelings about winning
    the stange said he was -ambivalent-. Ambivalent?!

    No he didn't. He said he was ambivalent coming into the stage and thought
    Ullrich would win it. He was happy to have won it.

    Quoted message said:

    It's as though he really didn't care if he won a stage or not. Actually he
    said he didn't care and that at the time check he rode safely and
    conservatively.

    I think you need to clean the wax out of your ears. He said, in essence
    that, when you hear you're 7 seconds down, you have to decide how you're
    going to race the technical section of the course -- going for it, or
    conservative and safe. He did NOT say that's how he raced it. And I think
    you're mistaking a bit of melancholy for "too subdued."

    Quoted message said:

    Interesting that he said his third win was the one where he was in the
    best
    shape as an athlete. Carmichael said he was in the best shape of his life
    last year - as a counterpoint.

    Well, beam him up. He's done racing. ;-/

    jj

    Well, at least you got some small part of it right. It wasn't that long an
    interview. I'm guessing you were chewing potato chips at the time or
    something.

    --
    Bob C.

    "Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
    T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

  5. On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 12:17:07 -0400, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    "Jet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Just once I'd like to see Armstrong get a little excited during the
    post-race interview; maybe an 'I kicked ass on the course today, didn't
    I?'...

    I seem to recall a few of those post-race comments last year ... like when
    he clipped Kloden on the line, etc.

    Quoted message said:

    Wasn't even really smiling and when asked about his feelings about winning
    the stange said he was -ambivalent-. Ambivalent?!

    No he didn't. He said he was ambivalent coming into the stage and thought
    Ullrich would win it. He was happy to have won it.

    I don't mind you correcting me but dayum, you're wrong! No need to be a
    jerk about it.

    Craig: ...I think you gave me the politically correct answer...now that
    it's over, how much did you want this win for yourself?

    Armstrong: "...you know...ahhh...I was, I was ambivalent. I wanted to go as
    hard as I could..."

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It's as though he really didn't care if he won a stage or not. Actually he
    said he didn't care and that at the time check he rode safely and
    conservatively.

    Armstrong: " you have to be prepared to lose and at that point try to ride
    safely and conservatively especially on the downhills..."

    Quoted message said:

    I think you need to clean the wax out of your ears. He said, in essence
    that, when you hear you're 7 seconds down, you have to decide how you're
    going to race the technical section of the course -- going for it, or
    conservative and safe. He did NOT say that's how he raced it. And I think
    you're mistaking a bit of melancholy for "too subdued."

    That may be the case. Melancholy.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Interesting that he said his third win was the one where he was in the
    best
    shape as an athlete. Carmichael said he was in the best shape of his life
    last year - as a counterpoint.

    Well, beam him up. He's done racing. ;-/

    jj

    Well, at least you got some small part of it right. It wasn't that long an
    interview. I'm guessing you were chewing potato chips at the time or
    something.

    WTF is wrong with you? I suggest you try decafe.

    jj

  6. Richard Adams a écrit :

    Quoted message said:


    So why was he picking at his shorts on the TT circuit? Did he explain that?

    At least they didn't split a seam, like in 2003.

    -ilan

  7. Jet,

    I was about to apologize and say I stand corrected, but then I played back
    the tape and I think you've printed the quotes out of context and that
    you've misunderstood what he was saying.

    He was talking about being prepared to lose just when he heard Basso was 7
    seconds up on him. But then he talks about turning it around. He didn't
    say he turned it around by being conservative and riding safely. No way.

    My take on his remark about being ambivalent was that he went into the event
    ambivalent about the outcome and thinking Ullrich would win (which he stated
    in the interview). But he said he went all out. That's inconsistent with
    being ambivalent and I don't think he was the least bit ambivalent about
    actually having won.

    Context is king!

    Also, to your very opening comment in your original post, if you've followed
    Lance's career, you should know he was legendary in his youth for his
    brashness and for remarks just like those you're wishing for. I think he's
    learned (or maybe has a publicist who's taught him) to tone that stuff down.
    I think he's VERY aware of his public persona now and works hard to manage
    it. Practicing for his next career in politics I suppose.

    But alas ... who cares. My apologies anyway for being unduly harsh. Maybe
    the decaf thing is a good suggestion.

    --
    Bob C.

    "Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
    T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)
    "Jet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 12:17:07 -0400, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    "Jet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Just once I'd like to see Armstrong get a little excited during the
    post-race interview; maybe an 'I kicked ass on the course today, didn't
    I?'...

    I seem to recall a few of those post-race comments last year ... like when
    he clipped Kloden on the line, etc.

    Quoted message said:

    Wasn't even really smiling and when asked about his feelings about
    winning
    the stange said he was -ambivalent-. Ambivalent?!

    No he didn't. He said he was ambivalent coming into the stage and thought
    Ullrich would win it. He was happy to have won it.

    I don't mind you correcting me but dayum, you're wrong! No need to be a
    jerk about it.

    Craig: ...I think you gave me the politically correct answer...now that
    it's over, how much did you want this win for yourself?

    Armstrong: "...you know...ahhh...I was, I was ambivalent. I wanted to go
    as
    hard as I could..."

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It's as though he really didn't care if he won a stage or not. Actually
    he
    said he didn't care and that at the time check he rode safely and
    conservatively.

    Armstrong: " you have to be prepared to lose and at that point try to ride
    safely and conservatively especially on the downhills..."

    Quoted message said:

    I think you need to clean the wax out of your ears. He said, in essence
    that, when you hear you're 7 seconds down, you have to decide how you're
    going to race the technical section of the course -- going for it, or
    conservative and safe. He did NOT say that's how he raced it. And I
    think
    you're mistaking a bit of melancholy for "too subdued."

    That may be the case. Melancholy.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Interesting that he said his third win was the one where he was in the
    best
    shape as an athlete. Carmichael said he was in the best shape of his
    life
    last year - as a counterpoint.

    Well, beam him up. He's done racing. ;-/

    jj

    Well, at least you got some small part of it right. It wasn't that long
    an
    interview. I'm guessing you were chewing potato chips at the time or
    something.

    WTF is wrong with you? I suggest you try decafe.

    jj

  8. psycholist said:


    I think you need to clean the wax out of your ears. He said, in essence
    that, when you hear you're 7 seconds down, you have to decide how you're
    going to race the technical section of the course -- going for it, or
    conservative and safe. He did NOT say that's how he raced it. And I think
    you're mistaking a bit of melancholy for "too subdued."

    Dumbass -

    Melancholy wouldn't be too surprising. It's all over now.

    He won't have to work so hard to prepare for the TdF evey year, but
    there's probably nothing else he will ever do that'll generate the
    adrenaline rush of kicking the asses of the world's best bike racers.

    That's why some of the other "world's greatest athletes" couldn't stop
    unretiring (Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan).

    thanks,

    K. Gringioni.

  9. On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 15:01:15 -0400, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Jet,

    I was about to apologize and say I stand corrected, but then I played back
    the tape and I think you've printed the quotes out of context and that
    you've misunderstood what he was saying.

    Well I may have misunderstood it. Thanks for trying to clarify. But I
    didn't purposefully take it out of context. I was sincerely upset a little
    bit when I heard his sentiments.

    Here's a quote from cycling news:

    "I was ambivalent (about getting the win)," said Armstrong post-stage. "I
    wanted to go as hard as I could, as I always like to do, I wanted to
    represent the yellow jersey and prove that I was the strongest in the race.
    But quite honestly I wasn't absolutely sure I could do it. I thought Jan
    would be strong, and then when I got to the first check I saw that Ivan was
    seven seconds up. I thought, 'Oh boy, this could be an interesting day.'"

    Maybe they misunderstood too? Let's just say that -if- LA said "I was
    ambivalent about getting the win" it's surprising and deflating. <shrug> He
    feels what he feels. Maybe it is a large measure of 'end of the fun times'
    letdown and he's having a reaction formation. Him: 'Eh, bike racing, it's
    nice but not everything'. Me: <sobbing> what, do you mean bike racing
    isn't everything...<laughing> (I'm making fun here).

    Quoted message said:

    He was talking about being prepared to lose just when he heard Basso was 7
    seconds up on him. But then he talks about turning it around. He didn't
    say he turned it around by being conservative and riding safely. No way.

    My take on his remark about being ambivalent was that he went into the event
    ambivalent about the outcome and thinking Ullrich would win (which he stated
    in the interview). But he said he went all out. That's inconsistent with
    being ambivalent and I don't think he was the least bit ambivalent about
    actually having won.

    Context is king!

    I -know-, that's my whole point. He said he was ambivalent, yet he seemed
    to be really kicking it on the course. Then, another little paradox - no
    celebratory fist shake at winning the stage. Surely he knows he's done it
    by 23 seconds. I felt cheated, lol.

    Quoted message said:

    Also, to your very opening comment in your original post, if you've followed
    Lance's career, you should know he was legendary in his youth for his
    brashness and for remarks just like those you're wishing for. I think he's
    learned (or maybe has a publicist who's taught him) to tone that stuff down.
    I think he's VERY aware of his public persona now and works hard to manage
    it. Practicing for his next career in politics I suppose.

    Heh, I think he learned the 'Lance "Awww-ww-eeerrrr-awwww" noise' which he
    does before answering the first question of every interview lately to give
    him time to think and to moderate his natural brash and candid commentary.

    Bike racing has probably taught him some of that - I notice that among all
    the athletes that bike racers always seem to try and say something nice or
    supportive about their adversary. I like to think it's because of the
    shared suffering they've experienced.

    Quoted message said:

    But alas ... who cares. My apologies anyway for being unduly harsh. Maybe
    the decaf thing is a good suggestion.

    Don't mind a jab here and there, but no need to pile it on. No biggie.
    Coffee rules! ;-)

    jj

  10. Jet said:

    I notice that among all
    the athletes that bike racers always seem to try and say something nice or
    supportive about their adversary. I like to think it's because of the
    shared suffering they've experienced.

    I don't thats the reason - In cycling you can't win if your are very
    unpopular with everyone. If the entire peloton didn't want a rider
    (even Lance Armstrong) to win they could prevent him from winning.
    In no other sport that's posible.

    --
    Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

    PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 300+300GB SATA, 8xDVD+/-RW, Bluetooth
    mus + tastatur, R9600PRO, iSight, eyeTV200 & LaCie Photon18Vision TFT

  11. "Jet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 15:01:15 -0400, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Jet,

    I was about to apologize and say I stand corrected, but then I played
    back
    the tape and I think you've printed the quotes out of context and that
    you've misunderstood what he was saying.

    Well I may have misunderstood it. Thanks for trying to clarify. But I
    didn't purposefully take it out of context. I was sincerely upset a
    little
    bit when I heard his sentiments.

    Here's a quote from cycling news:

    "I was ambivalent (about getting the win)," said Armstrong post-stage.
    "I
    wanted to go as hard as I could, as I always like to do, I wanted to
    represent the yellow jersey and prove that I was the strongest in the
    race.
    But quite honestly I wasn't absolutely sure I could do it. I thought
    Jan
    would be strong, and then when I got to the first check I saw that
    Ivan was
    seven seconds up. I thought, 'Oh boy, this could be an interesting
    day.'"

    Maybe they misunderstood too? Let's just say that -if- LA said "I was
    ambivalent about getting the win" it's surprising and deflating.
    <shrug> He
    feels what he feels. Maybe it is a large measure of 'end of the fun
    times'
    letdown and he's having a reaction formation. Him: 'Eh, bike racing,
    it's
    nice but not everything'. Me: <sobbing> what, do you mean bike racing
    isn't everything...<laughing> (I'm making fun here).

    There's a difference between being ambivalent about *getting* the win
    and ambivalent about *wanting* the win. All he was saying was that he
    wasn't sure, even going all out as he planned to, that he'd get it.
    Sounds like a reasonable man's thinking to me - I wasn't sure he'd get
    it, either. JU seemed to be riding himself into shape during this tour
    and had a very good last week.

    -S-

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    He was talking about being prepared to lose just when he heard Basso
    was 7
    seconds up on him. But then he talks about turning it around. He
    didn't
    say he turned it around by being conservative and riding safely. No
    way.

    My take on his remark about being ambivalent was that he went into the
    event
    ambivalent about the outcome and thinking Ullrich would win (which he
    stated
    in the interview). But he said he went all out. That's inconsistent
    with
    being ambivalent and I don't think he was the least bit ambivalent
    about
    actually having won.

    Context is king!

    I -know-, that's my whole point. He said he was ambivalent, yet he
    seemed
    to be really kicking it on the course. Then, another little paradox -
    no
    celebratory fist shake at winning the stage. Surely he knows he's done
    it
    by 23 seconds. I felt cheated, lol.

    Quoted message said:

    Also, to your very opening comment in your original post, if you've
    followed
    Lance's career, you should know he was legendary in his youth for his
    brashness and for remarks just like those you're wishing for. I think
    he's
    learned (or maybe has a publicist who's taught him) to tone that stuff
    down.
    I think he's VERY aware of his public persona now and works hard to
    manage
    it. Practicing for his next career in politics I suppose.

    Heh, I think he learned the 'Lance "Awww-ww-eeerrrr-awwww" noise'
    which he
    does before answering the first question of every interview lately to
    give
    him time to think and to moderate his natural brash and candid
    commentary.

    Bike racing has probably taught him some of that - I notice that among
    all
    the athletes that bike racers always seem to try and say something
    nice or
    supportive about their adversary. I like to think it's because of the
    shared suffering they've experienced.

    Quoted message said:

    But alas ... who cares. My apologies anyway for being unduly harsh.
    Maybe
    the decaf thing is a good suggestion.

    Don't mind a jab here and there, but no need to pile it on. No biggie.
    Coffee rules! ;-)

    jj

  12. Steve Freides said:

    There's a difference between being ambivalent about *getting* the win
    and ambivalent about *wanting* the win. All he was saying was that he
    wasn't sure, even going all out as he planned to, that he'd get it.
    Sounds like a reasonable man's thinking to me - I wasn't sure he'd get
    it, either. JU seemed to be riding himself into shape during this tour
    and had a very good last week.

    -S-

    I thought I recognized the name. Say hello to the Bornfelds.
    Interesting the different interests you find on the 'net.

    Robert

  13. "Robert Crim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Steve Freides said:

    There's a difference between being ambivalent about *getting* the win
    and ambivalent about *wanting* the win. All he was saying was that he
    wasn't sure, even going all out as he planned to, that he'd get it.
    Sounds like a reasonable man's thinking to me - I wasn't sure he'd get
    it, either. JU seemed to be riding himself into shape during this
    tour
    and had a very good last week.

    -S-

    I thought I recognized the name. Say hello to the Bornfelds.
    Interesting the different interests you find on the 'net.

    Interesting, indeed. My Usenet "presence", such as it is, is mostly on
    the weight-lifting newsgroups, but I'm a bikie from way back when and
    both my boys are avid recreational riders. The oldest has asked me to
    find him a racing team and even won a criterium once at age 9. (He's
    12 now.) Me, I'm still riding sewups, and on wheels I built myself -
    'nuff said. 🙂

    -S-

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