ketosis

dawn said:

If a person remains in ketosis everyday and the stick turns pink at
the end of everyday, is this a garantee that you are burning body fat
and are losing weight.

No. It means that pink stuff is leaking out of you.

Pastorio

x-no-archive: yes

dawn said:

If a person remains in ketosis everyday and the stick turns pink at
the end of everyday, is this a garantee that you are burning body fat
and are losing weight.

No, definitely not.

Quoted message said:

Can a person be in ketosis everyday and not lose weight, say from
consuming too much fat in the diet or does that matter?

Yes, and I gained weight years ago while in deep ketosis; I wasn't
overweight at the time, I was low carbing for health. Turns out I have
to eat very low calorie, too. Ketosis knocked my T3 hormone levels off
the bottom of the chart.

Extreme low calorie does the same thing to T3.

Susan

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes, and I gained weight years ago while in deep ketosis; I wasn't
overweight at the time, I was low carbing for health. Turns out I have to
eat very low calorie, too. Ketosis knocked my T3 hormone levels off the
bottom of the chart.

Did you medicate for that, Susan, or just up the carbs a bit? I'm getting
very confused with my current thyroxine dose, which doesn't seem to be doing
as good a job as it did.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/76/72Kg

x-no-archive: yes

Nicky said:

Did you medicate for that, Susan, or just up the carbs a bit?

I had to go on Cytomel for a few months, then by happy accident, I
discovered that supplemental chromium made me hypERthyroid, so I stopped
the Cytomel and use diet (still pretty low, I'm diabetic) and kept the
chromium. Don't know why this happened, but any time I take too much
chromium, my metabolism revs to the point that I get palpitations and
other symptoms.

I'm getting

Quoted message said:

very confused with my current thyroxine dose, which doesn't seem to be doing
as good a job as it did.

You may have the problem I had; poor conversion of T4 (inactive) to T3
(active hormone). I had high T4 but low T3; taking selenium, no more
than 200mcg per day can help the conversion, but any study looking at
the question has found the T4/T3 combination drug superior to T4 alone.
You may want to ask your doc about such a drug.

Susan

In article <[email hidden]>,

Susan said:

x-no-archive: yes

Nicky said:

Did you medicate for that, Susan, or just up the carbs a bit?

I had to go on Cytomel for a few months, then by happy accident, I
discovered that supplemental chromium made me hypERthyroid, so I stopped
the Cytomel and use diet (still pretty low, I'm diabetic) and kept the
chromium. Don't know why this happened, but any time I take too much
chromium, my metabolism revs to the point that I get palpitations and
other symptoms.

I'm getting

Quoted message said:

very confused with my current thyroxine dose, which doesn't seem to be
doing
as good a job as it did.

You may have the problem I had; poor conversion of T4 (inactive) to T3
(active hormone). I had high T4 but low T3; taking selenium, no more
than 200mcg per day can help the conversion, but any study looking at
the question has found the T4/T3 combination drug superior to T4 alone.
You may want to ask your doc about such a drug.

Susan

I take Thyrolar which is a combo. of the 2.
I regularly test my T4-TSH but I'd have to pay to do the total T3. ;-)
It's probably about time I checked it and the co-pay is only $25.00.

What type of Chromium do you take? Picolinate? I'm still having trouble
getting my T4 levels up so I might have to try that!

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

x-no-archive: yes

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

I take Thyrolar which is a combo. of the 2.
I regularly test my T4-TSH but I'd have to pay to do the total T3. ;-)
It's probably about time I checked it and the co-pay is only $25.00.

Goodonya for getting Thyrolar. What ketosis (or very low cal )does is
lower your active, free T3 (you want free T3 levels tested) and
increases inactive rT3(reverse T3). Thyrolar has T3 in it, but you may
need a higher ratio of T3 to T4, which can be achieved, I think, by
taking Synthroid and Cytomel separately, or just Cytomel.

Quoted message said:

What type of Chromium do you take? Picolinate? I'm still having trouble
getting my T4 levels up so I might have to try that!

I never take picolinate. I've had the effect with both polynicotinate
and GTF forms.

Susan

In article <[email hidden]>,

Susan said:

x-no-archive: yes

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

I take Thyrolar which is a combo. of the 2.
I regularly test my T4-TSH but I'd have to pay to do the total T3. ;-)
It's probably about time I checked it and the co-pay is only $25.00.

Goodonya for getting Thyrolar. What ketosis (or very low cal )does is
lower your active, free T3 (you want free T3 levels tested) and
increases inactive rT3(reverse T3). Thyrolar has T3 in it, but you may
need a higher ratio of T3 to T4, which can be achieved, I think, by
taking Synthroid and Cytomel separately, or just Cytomel.

I'll talk to my doc' about it... :-)
We will need to check blood levels of total T3 first, not T3 uptake. ;-P
Useless test. Don't know why they bother!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What type of Chromium do you take? Picolinate? I'm still having trouble
getting my T4 levels up so I might have to try that!

I never take picolinate. I've had the effect with both polynicotinate
and GTF forms.

Susan

Ah! I'll have to check those out.
I'm still learning about nutritional therapies!

I briefly tried T2 and it spiked the hell out of my liver enzymes.
I noted that it was quietly pulled off the market after a brief "splash".
I did some research and it caused hepatitis in a number of people.

Wonder what they did to screw up the formulation???

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

x-no-archive: yes

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

I'll talk to my doc' about it... :-)
We will need to check blood levels of total T3 first, not T3 uptake. ;-P
Useless test. Don't know why they bother!

You need to check *free* T3, not just total if it doesn't differentiate
between rT3 and active T3.

Quoted message said:

Ah! I'll have to check those out.
I'm still learning about nutritional therapies!

I haven't been able to find literature supporting the use of chromium
for thyroid, what I've shared here is purely my anecdotal experience;
happens every time and made me go off Cytomel, but it's just a personal
anecdote, an n of one.

Susan

In article <[email hidden]>,

Susan said:

x-no-archive: yes

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

I'll talk to my doc' about it... :-)
We will need to check blood levels of total T3 first, not T3 uptake. ;-P
Useless test. Don't know why they bother!

You need to check *free* T3, not just total if it doesn't differentiate
between rT3 and active T3.

I'll check the reference lab catalogue and see what is offered. :-)
My Doctor has given me free reign in requesting lab tests! She is a
gem...... and she knows I can be trusted as I do a LOT of my own
research! Helps that she is an endocrinologist and believes in
supplemental therapy.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ah! I'll have to check those out.
I'm still learning about nutritional therapies!

I haven't been able to find literature supporting the use of chromium
for thyroid, what I've shared here is purely my anecdotal experience;
happens every time and made me go off Cytomel, but it's just a personal
anecdote, an n of one.

Heh. "Anecdotal evidence" is what I live for. Having free access to some
lab testing allows me to "play" with my diet (and I have 3 co-workers
that do the same, we draw each other and run each other's levels) and
see what the results are!

This is why I know from "personal anecdotal evidence" that low fat, high
carb dieting is deadly! :-(

I'll look for the different Chromium formulations and "play around" and
let you know my "anecdotal" results!

<lol>

It's kinda like me and Shrimp, and my HDL cholesterol levels.......
They go out the roof when I eat shrimp without an increase in total
cholesterol.

It's usually hard as hell to bring HDL up, just wish shrimp was not so
expensive. I have a real passion for it too.

Cheers and THANKS for sharing!!!!!!!

Quoted message said:

Susan

--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

x-no-archive: yes

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

I'll check the reference lab catalogue and see what is offered. :-)
My Doctor has given me free reign in requesting lab tests! She is a
gem...... and she knows I can be trusted as I do a LOT of my own
research! Helps that she is an endocrinologist and believes in
supplemental therapy.

Good going.

Quoted message said:

Heh. "Anecdotal evidence" is what I live for. Having free access to some
lab testing allows me to "play" with my diet (and I have 3 co-workers
that do the same, we draw each other and run each other's levels) and
see what the results are!

This is why I know from "personal anecdotal evidence" that low fat, high
carb dieting is deadly! :-(

I'll look for the different Chromium formulations and "play around" and
let you know my "anecdotal" results!

Great. I just mentioned that because while I find anecdotes to be a
useful starting off point for my own research, I couldn't find research
cites supporting my experience or explaining it.

Quoted message said:

<lol>

It's kinda like me and Shrimp, and my HDL cholesterol levels.......
They go out the roof when I eat shrimp without an increase in total
cholesterol.

How do you raise a fraction of your TC without the total going up???
Unless you also lower the other stuff...

Quoted message said:

It's usually hard as hell to bring HDL up, just wish shrimp was not so
expensive. I have a real passion for it too.

Fortunately, IME, it wasn't hard at all. Mine was 34 for 10 years,
doubled to 68 in my first two weeks of lowish carbing, and is up to 70
now that I take pantethine. My LDL dropped 100 pts from diet and
supplements alone.

Quoted message said:

Cheers and THANKS for sharing!!!!!!!

Hope the info is useful to you.

Susan

In article <[email hidden]>,

Susan said:

x-no-archive: yes

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

I'll check the reference lab catalogue and see what is offered. :-)
My Doctor has given me free reign in requesting lab tests! She is a
gem...... and she knows I can be trusted as I do a LOT of my own
research! Helps that she is an endocrinologist and believes in
supplemental therapy.

Good going.

Good doctor. ;-)
Turns out we also both consult the same two MD's for herbals and
vitamins...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Heh. "Anecdotal evidence" is what I live for. Having free access to some
lab testing allows me to "play" with my diet (and I have 3 co-workers
that do the same, we draw each other and run each other's levels) and
see what the results are!

This is why I know from "personal anecdotal evidence" that low fat, high
carb dieting is deadly! :-(

I'll look for the different Chromium formulations and "play around" and
let you know my "anecdotal" results!

Great. I just mentioned that because while I find anecdotes to be a
useful starting off point for my own research, I couldn't find research
cites supporting my experience or explaining it.

And why would you?
The drug companies would not study it because they'd end up losing money.

Altho', it seems that some drug companies are beginning to learn a bit,
and come out with alternative stuff that has to be Rx due to some of the
vitamin dosages in it.

Look up "Vanachol".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<lol>

It's kinda like me and Shrimp, and my HDL cholesterol levels.......
They go out the roof when I eat shrimp without an increase in total
cholesterol.

How do you raise a fraction of your TC without the total going up???
Unless you also lower the other stuff...

Good question.
That is the "mystery" of Shrimp! <lol>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's usually hard as hell to bring HDL up, just wish shrimp was not so
expensive. I have a real passion for it too.

Fortunately, IME, it wasn't hard at all. Mine was 34 for 10 years,
doubled to 68 in my first two weeks of lowish carbing, and is up to 70
now that I take pantethine. My LDL dropped 100 pts from diet and
supplements alone.

Pantethine?
I'm going to have to store this!

My LDL and Triglycerides are fine.
It's my total Chol. and HDL that I seem to be having trouble with,
surprisingly MORE so since I've cut calories so far back. :-(
Specifically low carbing has had no effect. I just don't eat a lot of
food, period.

I need to eat more oily fish I'll bet.

My HDL has stayed in the high 50's for years (goes as high as 90 on a
sea bug pigout) but lately, it's been going down. Between 35 and 45.
Vanachol has brought my total Chol. down from 250 to 208 in 40 days of
using it but it's not had the effect on the HDL that we had hoped.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cheers and THANKS for sharing!!!!!!!

Hope the info is useful to you.

I'll keep y'all updated.
Thank you!!!!!!!

I'm always on the lookout for good supplement advice.

Quoted message said:

Susan

--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

I'll talk to my doc' about it... :-)
We will need to check blood levels of total T3 first, not T3 uptake. ;-P
Useless test. Don't know why they bother!

You need to check *free* T3, not just total if it doesn't differentiate
between rT3 and active T3.

I was wondering about whether the free T3 test would be able to distinguish
between the forms - thanks!

I'm busy munching a brazil nut every so often during the day, and am feeling
much better. I'm going to have another thyroid function test in a month or
so, and see what it's doing to my numbers.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/76/72Kg

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nicky said:

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

I'll talk to my doc' about it... :-)
We will need to check blood levels of total T3 first, not T3 uptake. ;-P
Useless test. Don't know why they bother!

You need to check *free* T3, not just total if it doesn't differentiate
between rT3 and active T3.

I was wondering about whether the free T3 test would be able to distinguish
between the forms - thanks!

I'm busy munching a brazil nut every so often during the day, and am feeling
much better. I'm going to have another thyroid function test in a month or
so, and see what it's doing to my numbers.

Nicky.

<perks> Brazil nuts???
I like those! What do they have to do with thyroid function???

Nevermind, I'll go google. ;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<perks> Brazil nuts???
I like those! What do they have to do with thyroid function???

T4->T3 conversion requires selenium.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/76/72Kg

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nicky said:

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<perks> Brazil nuts???
I like those! What do they have to do with thyroid function???

T4->T3 conversion requires selenium.

Nicky.

Oh!

So, what if I just supplement that in pill form?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nicky said:

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<perks> Brazil nuts???
I like those! What do they have to do with thyroid function???

T4->T3 conversion requires selenium.

Nicky.

Oh!

So, what if I just supplement that in pill form?

Presumably the same good effect : ) I couldn't lay my hands on a
selenium-only pill when I was hunting for one last week, they were all
selenium +ACE, which I already get from my multivit - so I decided to go the
brazil nut route. It's definitely making a difference!

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/76/72Kg

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nicky said:

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nicky said:

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> <perks> Brazil nuts???
> I like those! What do they have to do with thyroid function???

T4->T3 conversion requires selenium.

Nicky.

Oh!

So, what if I just supplement that in pill form?

Presumably the same good effect : ) I couldn't lay my hands on a
selenium-only pill when I was hunting for one last week, they were all
selenium +ACE, which I already get from my multivit - so I decided to go the
brazil nut route. It's definitely making a difference!

Nicky.

IME, natural food sources often work better than refined supplements
anyway. :-)

I'm off to get some Brazil nuts, thanks!

I can use the EFA's anyway. <lol>
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson