Does Lance work enough?

last time i checked there was nothing in the TdF rulebook disallowing outsmarting or out strategizing your opponents.

lance uses the structure of the race to his full advantage, no doubt. he picks his battles, instills and rewards focus, single-mindedness and loyalty from his team, and has a very clear objective. i dont think he should be blamed or criticized just cuz other contenders cant compete on that level (t-mob i'm looking at you). them's the rules.

and on the other hand, lets be honest, hes no slouch. in the last 7 years, when its come down to the wire, hes won TTTs, TTs, mountain TTs, the occasional sprint finish, and when it suits his ends, he can open a can of woopass on any climb in europe.

Well, yes, to a degree. That's what teamwork is. The goal is to be 1st in Paris, so of course he(LA) is not thrown to the wolves to fight for himself. The other team members know that it is their duty to "propel" LA thru the tour. Very few teams have mastered this. Some think it's babyish or even weak, but who's been in yellow for 6 years? No cheating involved, just smarts. As for the others teams, what's being referred to is that they probably want to win as well or have a member near top, say 2nd or 3rd over all. So at times a breakaway, for instance, may be of more jeapordy to them as Discovery. Yeah, I've seen a hand gesture from LA to, say, another rider "THere's the road, have at it." At least that's my opinion.

janiejones said:

I have heard it mentioned (and although I don't necessarily agree) that Lance Armstrong sits behind his team while they do all the work for him and once they are wasted, LA then expects everyone else (from other teams) to work with him.

I don't think I know enough about racing to really comment.

Anyway what do you guys think.

badhat said:

last time i checked there was nothing in the TdF rulebook disallowing outsmarting or out strategizing your opponents.

lance uses the structure of the race to his full advantage, no doubt. he picks his battles, instills and rewards focus, single-mindedness and loyalty from his team, and has a very clear objective. i dont think he should be blamed or criticized just cuz other contenders cant compete on that level (t-mob i'm looking at you). them's the rules.

and on the other hand, lets be honest, hes no slouch. in the last 7 years, when its come down to the wire, hes won TTTs, TTs, mountain TTs, the occasional sprint finish, and when it suits his ends, he can open a can of woopass on any climb in europe.

Well said.

He does let his team do a lot of work. The power of Lance lies partially in the power of the disco channel team. That's why in interviews etc. you hear lance talk about the team so much. However, Lance is also extremely fit, and can outpace almost everyone on the high climbs. This combination allows him to thin out the field, then attack and dump all of his rivals. For those that say he doesn't do any work, refer to stage ten: he let his team lead a fast pace, then on the final climb when everyone was suffering he stepped up the pace. For about the last 10-12 km he did 90% of the pulling, the other three who were with him were hanging on.

Armstrong hides behind his team, flogs his domestiques half to death, he cherry-picks his way through the season, he makes the Tour de France boring to watch, etc etc.
Funny how the criticisms of LA are similar to those leveled at Big Mig in the 90s.
If what these guys doing is so easy, why arent more riders/teams doing the same??

Seriously...The TdF is about strategy and strength. Without a good team you can't win. If you can't outride your opponents then you can't win. It takes a combination of both, which Lance obviously posesses.

And Mig was great too :-)

Asking whether Lance works is like asking whether Bret Favre or John Elway work. They have a specific assignment and there are other with specific assignments. Lance's assignment..win the tour. The others...get Lance the win. These roles change with different races but the TDF is Lance's. Whoever thinks that Lance does not work does not understand the strategies that go into cycle racing.

IMNSHO

janiejones said:

I have heard it mentioned (and although I don't necessarily agree) that Lance Armstrong sits behind his team while they do all the work for him and once they are wasted, LA then expects everyone else (from other teams) to work with him.

I don't think I know enough about racing to really comment.

Anyway what do you guys think.

After reading most of the comments in here I would have to say that eveyone agrees that Discovery gave LA all of the money and flexibility needed to pick those guys that will take him to Paris. There is no secret and everyone on the team knows that they are there to make sure that Lance keeps the yellow in Paris...I will also say that Lance is not a glory hound either. He purposely lets people win stages becasue he knows that these folks will never win overall and it is nice for them to go home and hang a yellow on the wall...

If you know anything about American Football...In order to get a running back or a wide receiver into the endzone for the touchdown requires the efforts of all of the specialized players on the field.

jaguar75 said:

After reading most of the comments in here I would have to say that eveyone agrees that Discovery gave LA all of the money and flexibility needed to pick those guys that will take him to Paris. There is no secret and everyone on the team knows that they are there to make sure that Lance keeps the yellow in Paris...I will also say that Lance is not a glory hound either. He purposely lets people win stages becasue he knows that these folks will never win overall and it is nice for them to go home and hang a yellow on the wall...

If you know anything about American Football...In order to get a running back or a wide receiver into the endzone for the touchdown requires the efforts of all of the specialized players on the field.

Thanks guys. I think Jaguar has said it here. I have heard so many negative comments about LA, from an Australian perspective though (that may make a difference), I wanted to see what other people thought. There is no doubt he is a great rider with a great team. And I think, a great worker.
So thanks again.,

No he doesn't. But the other teams are mostly at fault. If they had the money they would buy some of their challengers and pay them not to win but to work for the main man.

If Ullrich had the money and the team it is interesting to see how he would have gone over the last few years.

If LA had to work like most of the other GC contenders had to during his reign he would not have had the same success.

Tonight, hopefully the GC contenders from all teams will continue to attack, exposing Lance and making him at least come out from hiding and work for his win. If the challengers can keep it up over the next few stages, Lance will be as worn out as they are and the racing will be more even.

The main trouble the challengers now have is that they are burned up from having to carry the burden on their own.

LA is a great rider of this era, but without his money he would not have been the standout he seems.

its not like the money fell off a [censored] truck though, is it?

i mean where did the money come from that you claim allows him to "hide" from the other riders? i dont think he skimmed it off of the american cancer society or anything. he earned it for being a great rider. holding that against him is just like holding his talent against him.

janiejones said:

I have heard it mentioned (and although I don't necessarily agree) that Lance Armstrong sits behind his team while they do all the work for him and once they are wasted, LA then expects everyone else (from other teams) to work with him.

I don't think I know enough about racing to really comment.

Anyway what do you guys think.

Lance's team is suppose to work for him. That's the benefit of being a 6 time TDF winner. As for expectig other teams to work for him, I'd say you've been mis-led.

.

LA is a great rider of this era, but without his money he would not have been the standout he seems.[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm what about looking at it backwards.... if Lance was not the standout he is he wouldn't have the money he does.

Yes I like that and it seems much more accurate.

if it hasnt already been answered a number of times over, i think stage 14 just put this one to rest.

Stage 14: LA worked like a dog today. TMobile , Basso, Levi, Landis, Rassmussen everyone who had a chance in the GC tried to make a move .There LA was again, isolated from Discovery. They all tried but in the end they all fell off. AS Ligget would say they "CRACKED".

Thanks guys - I'm convinced LA is a legend.

At least his team worked as a team. The others just seemed to all fall apart. CSC and T Mobile should have been able to do better if they worked together.

Thats what leadership is all about.

janiejones said:

I have heard it mentioned (and although I don't necessarily agree) that Lance Armstrong sits behind his team while they do all the work for him and once they are wasted, LA then expects everyone else (from other teams) to work with him.

I don't think I know enough about racing to really comment.

Anyway what do you guys think.