Durability vs Efficiency

salmoneous at [email hidden] wrote on 7/22/03 8:11 AM:

Quoted message said:

I've started comminuting a bit to work - 20km each way, but only on good weather days. I think it
time to stop taking my MTB and get something more appropriate. Here's my question:

If we look at the continuum of bikes - from mountain to true road bike, we trade comfort for
efficiency as the bikes become more road-like. I'm certainly willing to give up some comfort to
shorten my commute time.

'pends on what you describe as "comfort" - they transmit a bit more road shock, particularly if you
are running front suspension on your MTB. But, if you are talking about your comfort on the bike,
probably not. Get fitted well and the different position will take a bit of getting used to, but
shouldn't be less comfortable.

Quoted message said:

What I'm not willing to give us is durability. By durability, I don't mean the structural
integrity of the metal frame over the years. I mean the likelihood that flat tires or other
mechanical problems will interrupt my commute.

Road bikes should not be brittle. Flats may be a problem -- see below.

Quoted message said:

My route is on roads, but mostly on the shoulder where there is broken pavement, gravel, debris,
glass, etc. to deal with from time to time. I've had to hop a couple of 1-2" branches. When I look
at road bikes with those skinny tires, I just start imagining all the problems I'll have.

Look for a frame that gives you maximum tire clearance. That will be the _minority_ of frames
available. But, trusty steeds like the Surly, Soma, Rivendell and others of that ilk are designed to
take big honkin' tires (technical term), which give you a lot of rubber to resist nasty little bits
on the road. Your tire choice will help a lot. (So will your piloting skills.)

Here's a very good tire option: rivbike.com10043.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Is it just my imagination, or is there a real risk here? Is tire width a key metric to look at, or
are there other features I should care about? (Yeah, I know, find a good LBS - but I'd also like
you guys opinions.)

Bicycle Fit is the key metric. Tire width is high on the list.

Hope that helps,

-- Jim

cyclofiend.comcyclofiend.comOpen ↗

I found an old Giant "Option" ATB and built it up as a tourer. I've commuted to work several times,
did two metric centuries on it, and numerous +20-mile "run-around-town" rides. It's sporting
700x35mm touring tires (traded out the 27" x 1 1/8"😉 that give a fair decent ride without too much
rolling resistance. They also hold up well on gravel hike & bike trails, dirt paths, and uneven
sidewalks. A skinny tire at 90 or 100 psi would blow on some of the stuff I ride on, but at about 50
psi, 35's roll right over 'em. Except 2" high rises in the concrete...

Flats are one of the constants of the universe...as far as mechanical trouble, just keep your bike
maintained, and you shouldn't have any problems.

I 2nd George's suggestion to look for a bicycle that has enough clearance that you can mount at
least a 28mm tire, if not larger (I don't know HOW rough your ride is nor your willingness to trade
off speed). Also, I recommend looking for a bicycle that has a large number of spokes built in a
cross-over (non-radial) pattern. This will reduce the need for frequent re-truing.

Use of kevlar-belted tires or flat prevention strips is controversial. I like them.

Good luck.

"salmoneous" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

... By durability... I mean the likelihood that flat tires or other mechanical problems will
interrupt my commute.

(salmoneous) said:

If we look at the continuum of bikes - from mountain to true road bike, we trade comfort for
efficiency as the bikes become more road-like. I'm certainly willing to give up some comfort to
shorten my commute time. What I'm not willing to give us is durability.

What you describe is an Audax bike. 700c wheels, reasonably slim tyres (put bigger ones on in winter
if you like), clearance for mudguards, frame angles which are sporty but not punishingly upright,
enough stiffness to mount a rack for carrying stuff, and braze-ons for lights and dynamo.

Audax bikes are built to last. Good ones are also light and surprisingly nimble.

Or you could go the whole hog and buy a recumbent ;-)

Here's an audax bike from a firm that knows what they are doing:
sjscycles.comaudaxclassic.htmOpen ↗

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ [currently
offline awaiting ADSL transfer to new ISP]

[email hidden] (salmoneous) wrote :

Quoted message said:

My route is on roads, but mostly on the shoulder where there is broken pavement, gravel, debris,
glass, etc. to deal with from time to time. I've had to hop a couple of 1-2" branches. When I look
at road bikes with those skinny tires, I just start imagining all the problems I'll have.

I ride about 2000 miles a year, mostly commuting, and I cannot remember having a puncture flat for
at least 10 years. The roads I ride don't have shoulders, so I ride far enough into the travel lane
that the cars have swept the debris away.

I ride a road bike with inexpensive "training" tires, not particularly soft, pumped to about 115
PSI. I used to ride a hybrid bike with wider tires, but I decided that I'd rather ride farther into
the road to avoid the debris and broken pavement near the edge, and once I was on good pavement the
road bike configuration made the most sense to me.

-Steve Goodridge

(salmoneous) said:

If we look at the continuum of bikes - from mountain to true road bike, we trade comfort for
efficiency as the bikes become more road-like. I'm certainly willing to give up some comfort to
shorten my commute time.

I would strongly disagree with this. My road bikes are extremely comfortable and I can spend all day
on one. I can't say the same for a mountain bike.

Maybe your road bike isn't fitted to you properly. There is also the possibility that what is
comfortable for 15 minutes is agony after a few hours and you haven't ridden long enough to make
that discovery yet. Things like wide saddles, gel saddles, and handlebars with only one position
come to mind.
--
To reply by e-mail, be polite. Rudeness will get you nowhere.

A tourer might work for you--

I picked up a Jamis Aurora on sale for US$450; 700Cx32 tires, fender clearance, rack mounting
points, all around comfortable position (dropped bars; I ride on the hoods 95% of the time)
okay gearing.

I'm only now learning the intricacies of hopping and wheelie-ing a bike with dropped bars, so I'll
get back to the ng after a while when I learn how to crawl over stuff.

As to speed and comfort--the aurora is the fastest I've ridden a bike. It's also my most comfortable
bike. the comfortable bike will be faster than an uncomfortable bike, just because you can stay in
the saddle longer and put more power in.

Other option is to convert your MTB. Advantage: this can be a phased project, so you get used to one
modification at a time. Disadvantage: parts singly are more expensive than a whole new bike.

Phase I [Minor alterations]: High-pressure, slick tires. Rack. Fenders. Bar-ends. Toeclips/straps

Phase II [Major alterations]: Conversion to dropped handlebars--entails new handlebars, levers,
shifters, cables, housing, stem (?). Rigid fork (if applicable) Clipless pedals.

If your frame sits you very upright as you pedal, then the dropped-bar conversion option might not
be too great. If, on the other hand, your frame stretches you out more--your back is flatter, more
weight on your hands--then the dropped-bar conversion might be a great idea.

-Luigi

have you considered a cyclocross bike? they are fairly light, sturdily built, have clearance for
wide high-volume tires, and often have eyelets for mounting a rear rack. almost all the major
companies make them, in every price range. the only drawback will be if you ride steep hills. most
cyclocross bikes have a double crank, with 39/53 rings (that's how my lemond poprad was equipped).
you can either install a triple crank and front derailleur, or go to a 110/74 bolt pattern crank and
install smaller rings. i have a 34/46 on mine and it works great. a 53 tooth ring and 12 tooth cog
is way more gear than most people need. if you need another combination, there are all kinds of
choices in this bolt pattern. good luck in your search.... smokey [email hidden] (salmoneous)
wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've started comminuting a bit to work - 20km each way, but only on good weather days. I think it
time to stop taking my MTB and get something more appropriate. Here's my question:

If we look at the continuum of bikes - from mountain to true road bike, we trade comfort for
efficiency as the bikes become more road-like. I'm certainly willing to give up some comfort to
shorten my commute time.

What I'm not willing to give us is durability. By durability, I don't mean the structural
integrity of the metal frame over the years. I mean the likelihood that flat tires or other
mechanical problems will interrupt my commute.

My route is on roads, but mostly on the shoulder where there is broken pavement, gravel, debris,
glass, etc. to deal with from time to time. I've had to hop a couple of 1-2" branches. When I look
at road bikes with those skinny tires, I just start imagining all the problems I'll have.

Is it just my imagination, or is there a real risk here? Is tire width a key metric to look at, or
are there other features I should care about? (Yeah, I know, find a good LBS - but I'd also like
you guys opinions.)