Creatine Report

Shut up fat boy.

John Hanson said:

Hey Will, do you plan on releasing another report or an addendum
that talks about the effects of Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL and the
differences between that and the monohydrate? I'm almost out and
was thinking about purchasing the more expensive ethyl ester.

Creatine works by regenerating ATP from ADP with the help of the
creatine kinase. But that enzyme is likely to be inhibited by the
creatine ethyl ester. This paper (http://tinyurl.com/bo97p) looked at
a penetrable derivative of phosphocreatine that behaved like
phosphocreatine, but once turned into an ethyl ester, it inhibited the
creatine kinase.

DZ said:

John Hanson said:

Hey Will, do you plan on releasing another report or an addendum
that talks about the effects of Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL and the
differences between that and the monohydrate? I'm almost out and
was thinking about purchasing the more expensive ethyl ester.

Creatine works by regenerating ATP from ADP with the help of the
creatine kinase. But that enzyme is likely to be inhibited by the
creatine ethyl ester. This paper (http://tinyurl.com/bo97p) looked at
a penetrable derivative of phosphocreatine that behaved like
phosphocreatine, but once turned into an ethyl ester, it inhibited the
creatine kinase.

So is that study saying that buying the really expensive creatine that
has Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL as its main ingredient is a complete waste
of time? I had been looking into buying VNS's Jacked. A guy I talked
to said it's the best thing since sliced bread.

http://www.vnsusa.com/more_info.html

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Hanson said:

Hey Will, do you plan on releasing another report or an addendum that
talks about the effects of Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL and the
differences between that and the monohydrate? I'm almost out and was
thinking about purchasing the more expensive ethyl ester.

We have been having a talk about CEE on my forums, and something of a
flame war on bb.com over it. I do mention other forms of creatine in the
report and the conclusion for CEE would be the same, it's the latest wiz
bang form of creatine that makes lots of claims with essentialy zero
data to support the claims. My super mod (Elissa) wrote up a report
below taken from my forum. I think you will find it interesting. Pat
Arnold has nicer things to say about CEE so you might want to check out
his forums and ask him opinion. BTW, the FDA has now turned down CEE
twice due to "safety concerns" and a lack of real data supporting the
many claims. People can go read that for themselves at the FDA's pages.
___________________________________________

Creatine Ethyl Ester is a fraud by Elissa.

<snip great article>

Thanks for the info, Will. I didn't know you had a forum. I'll have
to check it out. Is Elissa hot?

Quoted message said:

DZ said:

John Hanson said:

Hey Will, do you plan on releasing another report or an addendum
that talks about the effects of Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL and the
differences between that and the monohydrate? I'm almost out and
was thinking about purchasing the more expensive ethyl ester.

Creatine works by regenerating ATP from ADP with the help of the
creatine kinase. But that enzyme is likely to be inhibited by the
creatine ethyl ester. This paper (http://tinyurl.com/bo97p) looked at
a penetrable derivative of phosphocreatine that behaved like
phosphocreatine, but once turned into an ethyl ester, it inhibited the
creatine kinase.

So is that study saying that buying the really expensive creatine that
has Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL as its main ingredient is a complete waste
of time? I had been looking into buying VNS's Jacked. A guy I talked
to said it's the best thing since sliced bread.

http://www.vnsusa.com/more_info.html

I'm pretty sure it doesn't get converted to creatine in the body and
stays as an ester, although some esters break back to alcohol and acid
in the gut. Otherwise you'd get some buzz from ethanol but more
importantly, the other variant - creatine methyl ester would be quite
deadly, but apparently it is sold too.

If it indeed inhibits creatine kinase then not only it can't function
as a phosphate donor but it also shifts ADP - AMP balance to AMP,
because the kinase plays role there as well. That's what that paper
says.

Another molecule "creatine pyruvate" seems like a dud too
(http://tinyurl.com/9d75a). The paper says that creatine-pyruvate
breaks to creatine and pyruvate in the stomach due to acidity. So
there's no benefit from using the creatine-pyruvate molecule
itself. On the other hand, the amount of pyruvate produced is too
small to be of benefit - pyruvate doses up to 25g don't increase its
plasma concentrations.

DZ

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Hanson said:

Hey Will, do you plan on releasing another report or an addendum that
talks about the effects of Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL and the
differences between that and the monohydrate? I'm almost out and was
thinking about purchasing the more expensive ethyl ester.

We have been having a talk about CEE on my forums, and something of a
flame war on bb.com over it. I do mention other forms of creatine in the
report and the conclusion for CEE would be the same, it's the latest wiz
bang form of creatine that makes lots of claims with essentialy zero
data to support the claims. My super mod (Elissa) wrote up a report
below taken from my forum. I think you will find it interesting. Pat
Arnold has nicer things to say about CEE so you might want to check out
his forums and ask him opinion. BTW, the FDA has now turned down CEE
twice due to "safety concerns" and a lack of real data supporting the
many claims. People can go read that for themselves at the FDA's pages.
___________________________________________

Creatine Ethyl Ester is a fraud by Elissa.

<snip great article>

Thanks for the info, Will. I didn't know you had a forum. I'll have
to check it out. Is Elissa hot?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Hanson said:

Hey Will, do you plan on releasing another report or an addendum that
talks about the effects of Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL and the
differences between that and the monohydrate? I'm almost out and was
thinking about purchasing the more expensive ethyl ester.

We have been having a talk about CEE on my forums, and something of a
flame war on bb.com over it. I do mention other forms of creatine in the
report and the conclusion for CEE would be the same, it's the latest wiz
bang form of creatine that makes lots of claims with essentialy zero
data to support the claims. My super mod (Elissa) wrote up a report
below taken from my forum. I think you will find it interesting. Pat
Arnold has nicer things to say about CEE so you might want to check out
his forums and ask him opinion. BTW, the FDA has now turned down CEE
twice due to "safety concerns" and a lack of real data supporting the
many claims. People can go read that for themselves at the FDA's pages.
___________________________________________

Creatine Ethyl Ester is a fraud by Elissa.

<snip great article>

Thanks for the info, Will. I didn't know you had a forum. I'll have
to check it out.

It's a private forum (access comes with come purchase of the ebook(s).,
which means no SPAM, flame wars, or random posts. Just good conversation
based on real science.

Quoted message said:

Is Elissa hot?

She's in great shape and a real hot [censored] who knows her stuff (as you can
see from that report). We have some great mods on the forum.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

WillBrink <[email hidden]> wrote:
[... quoting from some study ... ]

Quoted message said:

The peak concentration of the associated form (ester) occurred at
five minutes following adminstration, and accounted for less than
15% of the total radioactivity present in the plasma. This indicates
that its dissociation into creatine and ethanol is rapid and nearly
complete within this initial five-minute period.

I think this is totally wrong. The only place to esterify creatine is
at the acidic tail that comes from glycine. So if we write creatine as
X-COOH then creatine ethyl ester (CEE) is X-COO-CH2-CH3, and creatine
methyl ester (CME) is X-COO-CH3. Both CEE and CME are being sold as
supplements. If there was any dissociation of these esters, ethanol
would be the product of CEE like the quote above is claiming, but CME
would produce methanol (CH3-OH).

And that would be one heck of a buzz! Dissociation would likely to
take place in the stomach and ester hydrolysis rate is not much
affected by small structural differences in corresponding alcohols.

DZ

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

WillBrink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
John Hanson <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Hey Will, do you plan on releasing another report or an addendum that
> talks about the effects of Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL and the
> differences between that and the monohydrate? I'm almost out and was
> thinking about purchasing the more expensive ethyl ester.

We have been having a talk about CEE on my forums, and something of a
flame war on bb.com over it. I do mention other forms of creatine in the
report and the conclusion for CEE would be the same, it's the latest wiz
bang form of creatine that makes lots of claims with essentialy zero
data to support the claims. My super mod (Elissa) wrote up a report
below taken from my forum. I think you will find it interesting. Pat
Arnold has nicer things to say about CEE so you might want to check out
his forums and ask him opinion. BTW, the FDA has now turned down CEE
twice due to "safety concerns" and a lack of real data supporting the
many claims. People can go read that for themselves at the FDA's pages.
___________________________________________

Creatine Ethyl Ester is a fraud by Elissa.

<snip great article>

Thanks for the info, Will. I didn't know you had a forum. I'll have
to check it out.

It's a private forum (access comes with come purchase of the ebook(s).,
which means no SPAM, flame wars, or random posts. Just good conversation
based on real science.

With input by permission of Herr Brinks only; sounds wonderful!!

Sieg Heil!! ;o)