TMO chases TMO?

David Ferguson said:

Obviously there are tensions within the team, but if I was directing,
this team would be in a good mood at the finish. Clearly, Ullrich
doesn't want to cede leadership within the team to Vinokourov. But you
can't have two riders on the same team fighting for the lead of the
race. Some decisions have to be made.

The German team has to find some direction. And the American team
simply has to find its legs.
http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/experts/columns/0,5976,s1-12477-661-expert,00.html

That is hillarious coming from him! Has anyone asked Hinault and
Lemond to comment about Guimard's ability to keep team unity? It's even
better that this [censored] is in "Bicycling", maybe "StyleMan" can give us
some pointers on how to dress the team for unity and success too.
Seriously funny [censored]! Thanks!
Bill C

David Ferguson said:

Another surprise was how poorly the T-Mobile team rode. That is no
surprise really, as we know they don’t have much in terms of team
tactics. But really! At one point, Vinokourov and Kloden attacked.
Armstrong can’t chase them down, but who does? Jan Ullrich. Go figure!

Obviously there are tensions within the team, but if I was directing,
this team would be in a good mood at the finish. Clearly, Ullrich
doesn’t want to cede leadership within the team to Vinokourov. But you
can’t have two riders on the same team fighting for the lead of the
race. Some decisions have to be made.

The German team has to find some direction. And the American team
simply has to find its legs.
http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/experts/columns/0,5976,s1-12477-661-expert,00.html

I thought T-Mobile rode *extremely* well today. The only thing that
went wrong was that Sevilla got dropped.

David Ferguson quoted (Guimard?):

Quoted message said:

Another surprise was how poorly the T-Mobile team rode. That is no
surprise really, as we know they don't have much in terms of team
tactics. But really! At one point, Vinokourov and Kloden attacked.
Armstrong can't chase them down, but who does? Jan Ullrich. Go figure!

Obviously there are tensions within the team, but if I was directing,
this team would be in a good mood at the finish. Clearly, Ullrich
doesn't want to cede leadership within the team to Vinokourov. But you
can't have two riders on the same team fighting for the lead of the
race. Some decisions have to be made.

I thought the sequence was: Vino attacks, a bunch of people chase,
they catch Vino, Vino sits up, Ullrich reintegrates this group from
the rear with Armstrong sitting on his wheel. That is not at all
the same as "Ullrich chases Vino." There is no way you can see
yesterday's stage as a fiasco for T-Mobile, except for Kloden
just barely losing to Weening, which hardly qualifies as a fiasco.

It's bizarre that people on rbr are simultaneously trashing
Ullrich for lacking the burning desire to win, and claiming
that Ullrich won't relinquish team leadership, is chasing Vino
down, etc etc. You can certainly trash T-Mobile leadership
for being uncreative, but imputing all these petty motives
to Ullrich is getting ridiculous. Not every team can or should
be structured the same as Discovery. The teams that do not
have the current favorite and race leader have a freer hand to
send multiple people on the attack.

Quoted message said:

http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/experts/columns/0,5976,s1-12477-661-expert,00.html

Quoted message said:

David Ferguson quoted (Guimard?):

Quoted message said:

Another surprise was how poorly the T-Mobile team rode. That is no
surprise really, as we know they don't have much in terms of team
tactics. But really! At one point, Vinokourov and Kloden attacked.
Armstrong can't chase them down, but who does? Jan Ullrich. Go figure!

Obviously there are tensions within the team, but if I was directing,
this team would be in a good mood at the finish. Clearly, Ullrich
doesn't want to cede leadership within the team to Vinokourov. But you
can't have two riders on the same team fighting for the lead of the
race. Some decisions have to be made.

I thought the sequence was: Vino attacks, a bunch of people chase,
they catch Vino, Vino sits up, Ullrich reintegrates this group from
the rear with Armstrong sitting on his wheel. That is not at all
the same as "Ullrich chases Vino." There is no way you can see
yesterday's stage as a fiasco for T-Mobile, except for Kloden
just barely losing to Weening, which hardly qualifies as a fiasco.

Agreed. This is what I've been waiting years to see.

Quoted message said:

It's bizarre that people on rbr are simultaneously trashing
Ullrich for lacking the burning desire to win, and claiming
that Ullrich won't relinquish team leadership, is chasing Vino
down, etc etc.

Hey Ben, I sincerely hope that you aren't putting me in that group.
Telekom was a bigger topic of conversation, but just barely, than my
kids training and racing and the rest of the kids in Rheinland-pfalz. I
really think I have a handle on him, though I never got to meet him. I
missed him when he came to our kid's coach's shop to debut his Mtn
Bike. I would've loved to have gone down to "Licht und Luft", which was
our clubs meeting point, for a meal and a few beers with him, Udo and
Klaus and talked about things but it never happened.
It would be hard to come up with a team based around better people.
They had Udo, Erik, and Jan who are all human and great people. Jan has
his well known flaws, but what doesn't get enough press is his absolute
dedication during the racing season to his TEAM and teamates. I can see
conflict as long as Jan thinks he's the best chance to win for the
team, but if he slips, the he becomes the worlds greatest domestique
with a smile.
Maybe some of our German friends can update us since I'm going on
almost 4 year old information now.

You can certainly trash T-Mobile leadership

Quoted message said:

for being uncreative, but imputing all these petty motives
to Ullrich is getting ridiculous. Not every team can or should
be structured the same as Discovery. The teams that do not
have the current favorite and race leader have a freer hand to
send multiple people on the attack.

Quoted message said:

http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/experts/columns/0,5976,s1-12477-661-expert,00.html

Bill C

Bill C said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Agreed. This is what I've been waiting years to see.

Quoted message said:

It's bizarre that people on rbr are simultaneously trashing
Ullrich for lacking the burning desire to win, and claiming
that Ullrich won't relinquish team leadership, is chasing Vino
down, etc etc.

Quoted message said:

Hey Ben, I sincerely hope that you aren't putting me in that group.
Telekom was a bigger topic of conversation, but just barely, than my
kids training and racing and the rest of the kids in Rheinland-pfalz. I
really think I have a handle on him, though I never got to meet him.

Oh, not at all Bill. I tend to agree that Jan's motivation
should be questioned and that he would be better off with a
shake up, although my real beef there is that I still think
T-Mobile is run by dunderheads.

The part I think bizarre is the RBR peanut gallery that thinks
it is a dire weakness that T-Mobile has multiple potential
leaders or attackers, that thinks Ullrich will be uncomfortable
with Vino up the road, etc. RBR n00bs are treating this like a
U.S. football team with a quarterback controversy. That's
silly. The team dynamics are different (if for no other
reason, you only have one quarterback on the field at a time).

Of course, LANCE could still drop them all in the Alps for
all we know, though I don't think he can drop Vino on a
mountain anymore.