Raleigh

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:31:45 +0100, Tilly <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The main choice for adults' bikes are Metro ladies/gents or Metro LX
ladies/gents.

http://www.raleighbikes.com/bikes/index.html?sub=3

Are women likely to be put off cycle training if I buy gents bikes?

I'm absolutely no sort of expert here, but thought I'd add my grist to
the mill 🙂

My little bike is a hybrid and I think it must be a blokes' style as I
have to swing my leg up to get on. I don't mind that, but my suspicion
is that quite a lot of women might not feel comfy with it. I'm
conscious of it every time I do it. I would have been when I was a
child, but now that I'm getting on a bit I notice this stuff more, and
I consider myself to be very robust in relation to this sort of issue.
Perhaps you could buy a couple of women's bikes for those who do mind?

Quoted message said:

Are men likely to be put off cycle training if I buy ladies bikes?

I don't see why they should, but you may need to check with a bloke...

Good luck with the project. and good work!

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 21:33:59 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

My little bike is a hybrid and I think it must be a blokes' style as I
have to swing my leg up to get on. I don't mind that, but my suspicion
is that quite a lot of women might not feel comfy with it. I'm
conscious of it every time I do it. I would have been when I was a
child, but now that I'm getting on a bit I notice this stuff more, and
I consider myself to be very robust in relation to this sort of issue.
Perhaps you could buy a couple of women's bikes for those who do mind?

Doh... I meant that I *wouldn't* have been conscious of having to
swing my leg up when I was a child. Sorry for any confusion...

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

Tilly said:

It seems likely that Transport for London will be signing a deal with
Raleigh to supply bikes, helmets, locks and lights for organisations
that have been awarded grants to promote cycling in London.

Quoted message said:

Are women likely to be put off cycle training if I buy gents bikes?

Probably yes, especially if they are new to cycling...although they
shouldn't be...a 'mans frame' is a better frame.

Quoted message said:

Are men likely to be put off cycle training if I buy ladies bikes?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

--
Mark
_____________________________________________

Deja Moo - The feeling that you've heard this bull before

Tilly said:

It seems likely that Transport for London will be signing a deal with
Raleigh to supply bikes, helmets, locks and lights for organisations
that have been awarded grants to promote cycling in London.

I have been awarded a grant of £1860 for 8 bicycles and accessories.
I want to buy bikes of various sizes, to be used by children from ages
4 - 11 and by adults.

The main choice for adults' bikes are Metro ladies/gents or Metro LX
ladies/gents.

http://www.raleighbikes.com/bikes/index.html?sub=3

Are women likely to be put off cycle training if I buy gents bikes?

Are men likely to be put off cycle training if I buy ladies bikes?

In my limited experience, it is probably worth having at least one ladies
frame around. Its probably worth fitting it with a skirt protector (panel
which fills in the rear triangle, stopping skirt getting into the rear
wheel).
Its for both women with skirts and men without the ability to swing a leg
over a crossbar (or over a rear wheel). A surprising number of people find
swinging their leg over a gents frame difficult, whereas stepping through a
frame is much less intimidating and less likely to cause a stumble before
they've even attempted riding !

Skirtguard illustrated on this Pashley model.
http://www.robertopiecollection.com/Application/Products/Pashley-cycles/princess-sovereign-GB.asp
I've no idea where you get them from, other than with a new Pashley !

Quoted message said:

The choices of children's bikes is much more difficult. They must
have gears, 6 speed is fine. The girls' range looks good, the boys'
range less so.

http://www.raleighbikes.com/bikes/index.html?sub=6

Quoted message said:

I am thinking of buying 2 Metro Gents (medium - large) @ £180, 2 Metro
Gents (small - medium) @ £180, 2 SK8 @ £135 and 2 Hot rod 20 @ £125, 8
U locks @ £9.99, 8 light sets (halogen and LED rear) @ £9.99, 8
h*lm*ts @ £12.99.

I'd swap at least one of the smaller Metro, and possibly two of them for
ladies (one each size).

I think I might get one of the girls style bikes as well on the same logic
(though I feel less strongly about this, as children might be less
inhibited, unless there is a cultural thing amongst the girls you will be
teaching.).

Quoted message said:

What should I do? Upgrade the bikes? Buy more bikes (if TfL agree)?
Buy ladies/girls bikes? Buy a couple of single speed 10" starter
bikes?

Depends, how much better are the slightly more expensive models ? If
significantly lighter, or significantly better kit, then worth the upgrade.
If TfL say 8 bikes only, then you may as well upgrade them.

Don't forget basic spares and things, such as tyres, tubes, patches and a
basic tyre changing kit (unless those are on a different budget).

Several sets of bike clips (or reflective straps with velcro fixings).
You'll always have people turning up who need their trousers clipping away
from the chain.

And some reflective tabbards to explain how well reflectives works, and to
wear when on the road (put it in a dark room and shine the cycle light on it
to see how good it is !).

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

in message <[email hidden]>, Tilly

(') said:

It seems likely that Transport for London will be signing a deal with
Raleigh to supply bikes, helmets, locks and lights for organisations
that have been awarded grants to promote cycling in London.

Oh. I have to say I'm not currently impressed by either the quality or
the value for money of the Raleigh range. They seem to be importing
bottom-of-the-market chinese and vietnamese bikes, and then pricing them
to reflect the 'brand awareness' of the Raleigh name. Trading on their
grandfather's reputation, as it were.

Quoted message said:

I have been awarded a grant of £1860 for 8 bicycles and accessories.
I want to buy bikes of various sizes, to be used by children from ages
4 - 11 and by adults.

The main choice for adults' bikes are Metro ladies/gents or Metro LX
ladies/gents.

http://www.raleighbikes.com/bikes/index.html?sub=3

Main upgrade from the base model to the GLX seems to be suspension forks
of dubious value (also up from six speed to seven speed at the back). Of
the two, at list price, the base model looks to me better value for
money, at least given the published specification.

Quoted message said:

Are women likely to be put off cycle training if I buy gents bikes?

Are men likely to be put off cycle training if I buy ladies bikes?

Don't suppose so either way. How many of your women trainees will come
for cycle training in skirts? And both genders, when learning, can
benefit from a step-through frame. Let's face it, the only thing about a
bike that's /really/ gender specific is the length of the top tube, and
I'm willing to be there's no actual difference between the geometries of
these 'ladies' and 'gents' bikes.

Quoted message said:

The choices of children's bikes is much more difficult. They must
have gears, 6 speed is fine. The girls' range looks good, the boys'
range less so.

http://www.raleighbikes.com/bikes/index.html?sub=6

While most girls would be quite happy riding a Hot Rod 20" with a Hot
Play mobile phone and holder or a SK8 24" with a skate bag, few boys
would feel happy on a pink Diva 20" with Hair accessory kit and bag or
a Krush 24" with a pink mobile phone.

Would the Hot Rod not be adequate as a smaller unisex child's bike and
the SK8 for the slightly larger kids? You can scrap the 'features'. Is
it a good thing to be forcing gender stereotypes down their throats,
anyway?

I really do hope that Transport for London can get you very serious
discounts because you'd get better value than this from Giant or Claud
Butler.

Quoted message said:

I am thinking of buying 2 Metro Gents (medium - large) @ £180, 2 Metro
Gents (small - medium) @ £180, 2 SK8 @ £135 and 2 Hot rod 20 @ £125, 8
U locks @ £9.99, 8 light sets (halogen and LED rear) @ £9.99, 8
h*lm*ts @ £12.99.

Ah, I see you're ahead of me. Good, so we agree... I reckon that's the
best of a poor lot.

Quoted message said:

What should I do? Upgrade the bikes? Buy more bikes (if TfL agree)?
Buy ladies/girls bikes? Buy a couple of single speed 10" starter
bikes?

The 'upgrade' available from Raleigh (essentially, bottom of the heap
[censored] suspension) is not worth the money. If you can't get better bikes
(and I accept that realistically you can't), then more bikes sounds
good, and the starter bikes sound like a really nice idea. Can you use
some of the money for spares/tools? A track pump would be a good thing
to have around, so would a workstand, and if kids are going to bring
their own bikes in, then realistically a good few spare sets of brake
cables and spare chains would be a most excellent thing.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This .sig subject to change without notice ]

At Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:31:45 +0100, message
<[email hidden]> was posted by Tilly
<[email hidden]>, including some, all or none of the
following:

Quoted message said:

What should I do? Upgrade the bikes? Buy more bikes (if TfL agree)?
Buy ladies/girls bikes? Buy a couple of single speed 10" starter
bikes?

I'd get some spares and a workstand for basic maintenance, unless
you're contracting that out? plus as you suggest a couple of starter
bikes (and maybe even a Like-A-Bike) for the real beginners. I'd also
have all the seat post clamps upgraded to QR if they aren't already
and have adjustable stems fitted on any bikes that will take them.

Oh, and a track pump and spare tyres and tubes in each size.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 22:16:00 +0100, "Nigel Cliffe" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Tilly said:

It seems likely that Transport for London will be signing a deal with
Raleigh to supply bikes, helmets, locks and lights for organisations
that have been awarded grants to promote cycling in London.

I have been awarded a grant of £1860 for 8 bicycles and accessories.
I want to buy bikes of various sizes, to be used by children from ages
4 - 11 and by adults.

The main choice for adults' bikes are Metro ladies/gents or Metro LX
ladies/gents.

http://www.raleighbikes.com/bikes/index.html?sub=3

Are women likely to be put off cycle training if I buy gents bikes?

Are men likely to be put off cycle training if I buy ladies bikes?

In my limited experience, it is probably worth having at least one ladies
frame around. Its probably worth fitting it with a skirt protector (panel
which fills in the rear triangle, stopping skirt getting into the rear
wheel).
Its for both women with skirts and men without the ability to swing a leg
over a crossbar (or over a rear wheel). A surprising number of people find
swinging their leg over a gents frame difficult, whereas stepping through a
frame is much less intimidating and less likely to cause a stumble before
they've even attempted riding !

Skirtguard illustrated on this Pashley model.
http://www.robertopiecollection.com/Application/Products/Pashley-cycles/princess-sovereign-GB.asp
I've no idea where you get them from, other than with a new Pashley !

Quoted message said:

The choices of children's bikes is much more difficult. They must
have gears, 6 speed is fine. The girls' range looks good, the boys'
range less so.

http://www.raleighbikes.com/bikes/index.html?sub=6

Quoted message said:

I am thinking of buying 2 Metro Gents (medium - large) @ £180, 2 Metro
Gents (small - medium) @ £180, 2 SK8 @ £135 and 2 Hot rod 20 @ £125, 8
U locks @ £9.99, 8 light sets (halogen and LED rear) @ £9.99, 8
h*lm*ts @ £12.99.

I'd swap at least one of the smaller Metro, and possibly two of them for
ladies (one each size).

I think I might get one of the girls style bikes as well on the same logic
(though I feel less strongly about this, as children might be less
inhibited, unless there is a cultural thing amongst the girls you will be
teaching.).

I agree that young girls are unlikely to have an issue with boys'
bikes. The smaller Metro Ladies is a suitable size for 10/11 year old
girls.

This is my latest thought:

1 x Metro Gents - M-L £180
1 x Metro Ladies - M-L £180
2 x Metro Gents - S-M £360
2 x Metro Ladies - S-M £360
2 x SK8 13/24 £270
2 x Hot Rod 11/20 £250
1 x Striker 10/16 £90

This retails at £1690, but I need about £500 for helmets, lights,
locks and spares. A 20% discount on the bikes should be ample to
secure the order, so long as TfL's only concern is the grant
allocation.

I already have a good stock of hi-vis in various sizes.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Tilly

(') said:

It seems likely that Transport for London will be signing a deal with
Raleigh to supply bikes, helmets, locks and lights for organisations
that have been awarded grants to promote cycling in London.

Oh. I have to say I'm not currently impressed by either the quality or
the value for money of the Raleigh range. They seem to be importing
bottom-of-the-market chinese and vietnamese bikes, and then pricing them
to reflect the 'brand awareness' of the Raleigh name. Trading on their
grandfather's reputation, as it were.

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have been awarded a grant of £1860 for 8 bicycles and accessories.
I want to buy bikes of various sizes, to be used by children from ages
4 - 11 and by adults.

The main choice for adults' bikes are Metro ladies/gents or Metro LX
ladies/gents.

http://www.raleighbikes.com/bikes/index.html?sub=3

Main upgrade from the base model to the GLX seems to be suspension forks
of dubious value (also up from six speed to seven speed at the back). Of
the two, at list price, the base model looks to me better value for
money, at least given the published specification.

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are women likely to be put off cycle training if I buy gents bikes?

Are men likely to be put off cycle training if I buy ladies bikes?

Don't suppose so either way. How many of your women trainees will come
for cycle training in skirts? And both genders, when learning, can
benefit from a step-through frame. Let's face it, the only thing about a
bike that's /really/ gender specific is the length of the top tube, and
I'm willing to be there's no actual difference between the geometries of
these 'ladies' and 'gents' bikes.

I'm not sure about this. The school has a very mixed cultural intake.
I hate it for anyone to be put off cycle because they feel inhibited.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The choices of children's bikes is much more difficult. They must
have gears, 6 speed is fine. The girls' range looks good, the boys'
range less so.

http://www.raleighbikes.com/bikes/index.html?sub=6

While most girls would be quite happy riding a Hot Rod 20" with a Hot
Play mobile phone and holder or a SK8 24" with a skate bag, few boys
would feel happy on a pink Diva 20" with Hair accessory kit and bag or
a Krush 24" with a pink mobile phone.

Would the Hot Rod not be adequate as a smaller unisex child's bike and
the SK8 for the slightly larger kids? You can scrap the 'features'. Is
it a good thing to be forcing gender stereotypes down their throats,
anyway?

I hate the children's range. I want simple plain non-nonsense robust
bikes with 6 or more gears. In their catalogue which I downloaded in
PDF, they have a very nice looking "Raptor" which comes in 12/24 and
11/20. The trouble is that it has crappy suspension forks... Why!!!?
The reception classes can have the features.

Quoted message said:

I really do hope that Transport for London can get you very serious
discounts because you'd get better value than this from Giant or Claud
Butler.

It sounds like the discount may be substantial. If Raleigh can get
their bikes used for Cycle Training they will hope parents will go out
and buy them.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am thinking of buying 2 Metro Gents (medium - large) @ £180, 2 Metro
Gents (small - medium) @ £180, 2 SK8 @ £135 and 2 Hot rod 20 @ £125, 8
U locks @ £9.99, 8 light sets (halogen and LED rear) @ £9.99, 8
h*lm*ts @ £12.99.

Ah, I see you're ahead of me. Good, so we agree... I reckon that's the
best of a poor lot.

Quoted message said:

What should I do? Upgrade the bikes? Buy more bikes (if TfL agree)?
Buy ladies/girls bikes? Buy a couple of single speed 10" starter
bikes?

The 'upgrade' available from Raleigh (essentially, bottom of the heap
[censored] suspension) is not worth the money. If you can't get better bikes
(and I accept that realistically you can't), then more bikes sounds
good, and the starter bikes sound like a really nice idea. Can you use
some of the money for spares/tools? A track pump would be a good thing
to have around, so would a workstand, and if kids are going to bring
their own bikes in, then realistically a good few spare sets of brake
cables and spare chains would be a most excellent thing.

In the bid I specified bikes, lights, helmets, locks and spares. In
their offer letter TfL mentioned tools. I have a track pump, but it's
my own. I've already got funding, from a separate source, for a large
shed to put everything in.

Tilly wrote:
........

Quoted message said:

The main choice for adults' bikes are Metro ladies/gents or Metro LX
ladies/gents.

http://www.raleighbikes.com/bikes/index.html?sub=3

Are women likely to be put off cycle training if I buy gents bikes?

Some women will only ride a bike with a low step-through frame (like
ME1505L-1805L).

Quoted message said:

Are men likely to be put off cycle training if I buy ladies bikes?

A few of the younger men will be somewhat put off by a ladies frame, but
it would have to be in girly colours as well to totally put off most men.
Some of them won't even realise the bike is supposed to be for women,
otherwise. Worth buying one or two ladies bikes, I think.

.........

Quoted message said:

What should I do? Upgrade the bikes? Buy more bikes (if TfL agree)?
Buy ladies/girls bikes? Buy a couple of single speed 10" starter
bikes?

I would budget for additional saddles in case the supplied ones are poor.
Other upgrades won't be so important and won't be economical.

~PB

in message <[email hidden]>, Tilly

(') said:

Quoted message said:

Don't suppose so either way. How many of your women trainees will come
for cycle training in skirts? And both genders, when learning, can
benefit from a step-through frame. Let's face it, the only thing about

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike that's really gender specific is the length of the top tube, and
I'm willing to be there's no actual difference between the geometries

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

these 'ladies' and 'gents' bikes.

I'm not sure about this. The school has a very mixed cultural intake.
I hate it for anyone to be put off cycle because they feel inhibited.

Ah. I'm not well placed to comment. This village has one family of
Rwandan refugees, and apart from that we're all Scots or English. If you
have a friend who is a practising Muslim to the point of wearing a
head-scarf, get her advice. If you can accommodate the needs of Muslims
wearing 'modest' dress I would have thought everyoneelse would probably
be OK.

But having said that, those Raleigh 'ladies' bikes don't have a very low
step-through anyway, so may actually be no better from that point of
view than the 'gents'.

If you're in doubt, get the ladies ones. Any man who is too macho to ride
a 'ladies' bike is too far up his own [censored] to be worth attempting to
teach.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The 'upgrade' available from Raleigh (essentially, bottom of the heap
[censored] suspension) is not worth the money. If you can't get better bikes
(and I accept that realistically you can't), then more bikes sounds
good, and the starter bikes sound like a really nice idea. Can you use
some of the money for spares/tools? A track pump would be a good thing
to have around, so would a workstand, and if kids are going to bring
their own bikes in, then realistically a good few spare sets of brake
cables and spare chains would be a most excellent thing.

In the bid I specified bikes, lights, helmets, locks and spares. In
their offer letter TfL mentioned tools. I have a track pump, but it's
my own. I've already got funding, from a separate source, for a large
shed to put everything in.

Well, if you've already specified spares, and they've already specified
tools, that looks to me to be the way to go. I don't know how you are
from the insurance/beurocracy point of view for fixing kids bikes, but
IME when you are working with kids with their own bikes something more
than 50% will typically be mechanically unsafe in one way or another,
most usually non-functioning brakes. And one of the most important bits
of bike safety you can teach them is how to maintain and adjust their
own brakes. So having plenty of replacement brake parts (up to and
including complete V brakes) seems to me the way to go.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.

Simon Brooke said:

Ah. I'm not well placed to comment. This village has one family of
Rwandan refugees, and apart from that we're all Scots or English. If you
have a friend who is a practising Muslim to the point of wearing a
head-scarf, get her advice. If you can accommodate the needs of Muslims
wearing 'modest' dress I would have thought everyoneelse would probably
be OK.

Catering for 'modest' dress seems entirely reasonable.

Quoted message said:

But having said that, those Raleigh 'ladies' bikes don't have a very low
step-through anyway, so may actually be no better from that point of
view than the 'gents'.

If you're in doubt, get the ladies ones. Any man who is too macho to ride
a 'ladies' bike is too far up his own [censored] to be worth attempting to
teach.

I don't agree. It may not be a macho thing, rather ingrained
inhibition.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In the bid I specified bikes, lights, helmets, locks and spares. In
their offer letter TfL mentioned tools. I have a track pump, but it's
my own. I've already got funding, from a separate source, for a large
shed to put everything in.

Well, if you've already specified spares, and they've already specified
tools, that looks to me to be the way to go. I don't know how you are
from the insurance/beurocracy point of view for fixing kids bikes, but
IME when you are working with kids with their own bikes something more
than 50% will typically be mechanically unsafe in one way or another,
most usually non-functioning brakes. And one of the most important bits
of bike safety you can teach them is how to maintain and adjust their
own brakes. So having plenty of replacement brake parts (up to and
including complete V brakes) seems to me the way to go.

I'm not much of a mechanic. I've tried to enthuse the Lewisham Branch
of the London Cycling Campaign to get involved, but so far I've heard
nothing.

I have been in contact with the schools insurers. These are specific
examples they gave of what is, what can be and what can't be covered
by the school's insurance.

1. A bicycle is stolen - not covered until bikes listed.
2. A child is injured out of school as a result the handle bars
falling off - covered by LBL's/School's liability policy
3. A child is injured during the cycle training - covered by
LBL/School's liability policy.
4. A child runs into the side of a parked car when practicing at home
- not covered by LBL/school.
5. A child runs into a pedestrian and knocks them over when practicing
in the street - not covered by LBL/school.

Tilly said:

I'm not sure about this. The school has a very mixed cultural intake.
I hate it for anyone to be put off cycle because they feel inhibited.

VeloVision has had various articles on programs for encouraging
cycling, specifically including women non-Anglo Saxon backgrounds.
I'd be inclined to look up the articles and get in touch with the
folk who've already been working at the sort of thing you're
looking at. From the latest issue, try at
http://www.towerhamletswheelers.org.uk/ for a start, specifically
the Jagonari article.

Quoted message said:

I hate the children's range. I want simple plain non-nonsense robust
bikes with 6 or more gears. In their catalogue which I downloaded in
PDF, they have a very nice looking "Raptor" which comes in 12/24 and
11/20. The trouble is that it has crappy suspension forks... Why!!!?
The reception classes can have the features.

Raleigh are selling into the mass market. The mass market want
features that kids will consider cool. When I was a kid we wanted
what was cool, never mind if it was [censored]. More gears was cooler,
even though however many we had you only ever used the highest. I
don't see why today is any different. Sad, but probably true.

Quoted message said:

In the bid I specified bikes, lights, helmets, locks and spares.

At the risk of dragging in the nefarious H-word again, I think that
since in order to do their stuff as well as can be expected they
should be individually fitted to the wearer at the point of
purchase and have some considerable time spent on adjusting the
straps for the specific head it's for, having a communal pool is
verging on being purely cosmetic. If people are going to use them
they should be taught to use them /properly/, and that means a
close personal fit and correct, snug adjustment worked out over
time, and I really can't see that happening with a pile of helmets
where you just take one. Personal safety gear works /much/ better
if it is *personal*. You'll also have to budegt them as a
recurring replacement for every one over ~ 4 years, don't forget.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

At the risk of dragging in the nefarious H-word again, I think that
since in order to do their stuff as well as can be expected they
should be individually fitted to the wearer at the point of
purchase and have some considerable time spent on adjusting the
straps for the specific head it's for, having a communal pool is
verging on being purely cosmetic. If people are going to use them
they should be taught to use them /properly/, and that means a
close personal fit and correct, snug adjustment worked out over
time, and I really can't see that happening with a pile of helmets
where you just take one. Personal safety gear works /much/ better
if it is *personal*. You'll also have to budegt them as a
recurring replacement for every one over ~ 4 years, don't forget.

I think I'm now a deft hand at fitting helmets to children's heads.

1. Place helmet on head and adjust so it doesn't wobble
2. Adjust straps so they pass either side of ear and join below ear
3. Adjust strap length so it holds the helmet securely on head
without pinching chin

It takes about 90 seconds to properly fit a helmet from a box, a
little longer if it's previously been "fitted" by Halfords staff.

In article said:

I hate the children's range. I want simple plain non-nonsense robust
bikes with 6 or more gears. In their catalogue which I downloaded in
PDF, they have a very nice looking "Raptor" which comes in 12/24 and
11/20. The trouble is that it has crappy suspension forks... Why!!!?

I have a 20" wheel Gecko, which was a Raptor without the suspension (or
rather my son does), and I thought there was a 24" wheel version.
But I bought it last year, discounted because it was the previous years
model then, so maybe it's been discontinued.
Looking at the web site, the Hot Rod and SK8 looks like the replacements.

(The Gecko model from the year I didn't get had a heavier frame more
like the current Raptor10/16, the older one is a fairly straightforward
diamond. Still overweight because it has "oversized" mountain bike style
tubes, but not as bad as some.)

Pete Biggs' of said:

Tilly wrote:
.......

Quoted message said:

The main choice for adults' bikes are Metro ladies/gents or Metro LX
ladies/gents.

http://www.raleighbikes.com/bikes/index.html?sub=3

Are women likely to be put off cycle training if I buy gents bikes?

Some women will only ride a bike with a low step-through frame (like
ME1505L-1805L).

Some women like me can only ride a low step-through frame, because my legs
are so short that the standover height of anything else puts the top tube
too high. Having at least one such bike will extend the pool of potential
trainees to smaller adults. As a short adult I'd be embarrassed to be given
a kids bike; in some communities the loss of face from this would be
sufficient to stop a trainee from riding altogether.
--
You can make a throne of bayonets, but you cannot sit on it for long.
Boris Yeltsin
Steph Peters delete invalid from [email hidden]
Tatting, lace & stitching page <http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/index.htm>

Tilly said:

I'm not much of a mechanic. I've tried to enthuse the Lewisham Branch
of the London Cycling Campaign to get involved, but so far I've heard
nothing.

It might be worth approaching Greenwich or even Southwark LCC. Both
are fairly close and a bit more active than Lewisham just now. Have
you tried LBS's? I guess The Bike Shop is nearest but Compton's have
some community initiatives IIRC

best wishes
james

Tilly said:

I think I'm now a deft hand at fitting helmets to children's heads.

1. Place helmet on head and adjust so it doesn't wobble

That can be the stumbling block there. Sometimes this just won't
happen with the head in question and the helmet available. Sad but
true.

Quoted message said:

It takes about 90 seconds to properly fit a helmet from a box

Only if it is basically the right shape to start with. Different
heads are different shapes. Same for different models of helmets.
You can take up some slack by varying the amounts of padding, but
that is rather a cosmetic exercise in itself as there is no
rigidity in open cell padding to spread impact loads.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

1. Place helmet on head and adjust so it doesn't wobble

That can be the stumbling block there. Sometimes this just won't
happen with the head in question and the helmet available. Sad but
true.

Then it's doubly fortunate that I will have a stock of school helmets
in various sizes.

At Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:21:59 +0100, message
<[email hidden]> was posted by Tilly
<[email hidden]>, including some, all or none of the
following:

Quoted message said:

Then it's doubly fortunate that I will have a stock of school helmets
in various sizes.

Tch! How can this possibly be a problem? Helmets are *cheap*! They
must be, the BMA Board of Science said so :o)

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken