water bottles,helmets

At Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:56:44 GMT, message
<[email hidden]> was posted by "Mark"
<[email hidden]>, including some, all or none of the following:

Quoted message said:

While watching the TdF, the riders are constantly throwing their empty water
bottles to the side of the road. I am just curious, what happens to them?

They are snaffled by souvenir-hungry fans.

Quoted message said:

Also, when the Tour gets to
the mountains, the rider are permitted to remove their helmets,

Not any more.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Just curious - when the tour is over do they throw thier bikes over to
the side of the road?!? I'd like to catch one of them!

Ken

Mark said:

Also, when the
Tour gets to the mountains, the rider are permitted to remove their
helmets, last year I saw a guy just throw it to the side of the road.

from dummies.com

To reduce or eliminate deaths from crashes, every rider in the Tour must
now wear a helmet during every stage of the race, including time trials.
At their own risk, cyclists may remove their helmets during the final
climb to the summit if the climb is at least 5 kilometers (3.1 miles)
long. A Tour course marker designates the point on the course where
cyclists can remove their helmets. Removal of helmets on mountain stages
is never allowed before the start of a climb.

I'm sure a team member makes sure the helmet makes it home.

At Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:47:22 GMT, message
<[email hidden]> was posted by
maxo <[email hidden]>, including some, all or none of the
following:

Quoted message said:

To reduce or eliminate deaths from crashes, every rider in the Tour must
now wear a helmet during every stage of the race, including time trials.

You gotta love that! There have already been more deaths in the pro
cadre in the first five years of this decade than in any previous
decade on record!

Of course, a fall onto a flat surface from 1.5m with your head
disconnected from your body is always going to be fatal...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Just zis Guy said:

You gotta love that! There have already been more deaths in the pro
cadre in the first five years of this decade than in any previous
decade on record!

I'm not sure where you're going with that, and I certainly don't want
to start a helmet/no helmet debate; but the reason they instituted the
rule was that Andrei Kivilev was not wearing a helmet when he died from
head injuries during the 2003 Paris-Nice. They changed the rules for
time-trial helmets later that same year.

Anyone remember the T-Mobile rider (I think it was Matthias Kessler)
who crashed into a fence post during a descent in last year's tour?
That was frightening. The pros go so freaking fast and take so many
amazing risks that I'm not qualified to draw conclusions about what
constitutes a reasonable precaution in their world.

-JR

What's funny: for years TdF photos have depicted bare heads. But this
year, go to the official site...their motif photo is a rainbow of
h*lmets.

--Karen M.
left my TdF bottle in my sister's car 🙁

SlowRider said:

Just zis Guy said:

You gotta love that! There have already been more deaths in the pro
cadre in the first five years of this decade than in any previous
decade on record!

I'm not sure where you're going with that, and I certainly don't want
to start a helmet/no helmet debate; but the reason they instituted the
rule was that Andrei Kivilev was not wearing a helmet when he died from
head injuries during the 2003 Paris-Nice. They changed the rules for
time-trial helmets later that same year.

Anyone remember the T-Mobile rider (I think it was Matthias Kessler)
who crashed into a fence post during a descent in last year's tour?
That was frightening. The pros go so freaking fast and take so many
amazing risks that I'm not qualified to draw conclusions about what
constitutes a reasonable precaution in their world.

The tour has been raced for nearly 100 years. In all that time and in
all those millions of miles, there have been something like three
deaths from _any_ cause, including amphetamine-induced heart failure.

And there's great doubt that Kivilev's death would have been prevented
by a helmet. A high speed mountain descent ending with an impact with
a pillar sounds far worse than the 14 mph that bike helmets are
certified for.

The helmet rule sounds to me like more backdoor politicking by helmet
manufacturers. "My gosh, we can't let people think you can survive
without a foam hat! It will hurt sales!"

- Frank Krygowski

Mark said:

While watching the TdF, the riders are constantly throwing their empty
water bottles to the side of the road. I am just curious, what happens to
them?

The spectators fight over them.

Quoted message said:

Also, when the Tour gets to the mountains, the rider are permitted to
remove their helmets,

Not this year. The riders train specifically for hot conditions which
is what saves them from the heat exhaustion that helmets would bring on
in the normal rider.

Mike

I don't wear a helmet, so I don't know about the tech, the "best" is
only rated for 14 mph?!? Thats hardly riding. I do more than that on
just a steady cruise. Seems like they need to design some better
helmets for those who wear them.

Ken

At 8 Jul 2005 11:35:57 -0700, message
<[email hidden]> was posted by
"SlowRider" <[email hidden]>, including some, all or none of
the following:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You gotta love that! There have already been more deaths in the pro
cadre in the first five years of this decade than in any previous
decade on record!

Quoted message said:

I'm not sure where you're going with that,

Risk compensation land :-) Plus the fact that helmets are not
designed or proven to prevent any measurable proportion of fatal
injuries. The idea that plastic hats could *eliminate* injuries is
hilarious :-D

Quoted message said:

and I certainly don't want
to start a helmet/no helmet debate; but the reason they instituted the
rule was that Andrei Kivilev was not wearing a helmet when he died from
head injuries during the 2003 Paris-Nice. They changed the rules for
time-trial helmets later that same year.

That was the excuse; ask any actuary about the statistical
significance of a sample of one.

Quoted message said:

Anyone remember the T-Mobile rider (I think it was Matthias Kessler)
who crashed into a fence post during a descent in last year's tour?
That was frightening. The pros go so freaking fast and take so many
amazing risks that I'm not qualified to draw conclusions about what
constitutes a reasonable precaution in their world.

I have a friend who follows racing closely; he is absolutely convinced
that riders are going noticeably closer in bunch sprints and taking
noticeably more risks since the helmet rule.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

At 8 Jul 2005 12:53:53 -0700, message
<[email hidden]> was posted by
"Ken M" <[email hidden]>, including some, all or none of the
following:

Quoted message said:

Seems like they need to design some better
helmets for those who wear them.

Can't easily be done - fast riders generate way too much heat.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

you know? said:

he is absolutely convinced
that riders are going noticeably closer in bunch sprints and taking
noticeably more risks since the helmet rule.

Without adding to the helmet/bare head fire (I'm personally on the fence
as they can obviously prevent *some* injuries, and wear one sometimes
myself), I've noticed cyclists becoming crappier riders over the last ten
years as helmet use has become ubiquitous.

Indeed, I think that they're inspiring unwarranted confidence.

I confronted a racer boy last week that blew through a four way to the
irritation of three motorists with the right of way (they yelled at me
instead, even though I let them have their turn...)--I simply told him
that the motorized community tends to lump us cyclists together, and when
he rides like a [censored], it negatively impacts drivers perception of me. His
response? "Where's your helmet?"

Can't argue with that...

Yeah I guess you might be right. But if that is the case why force a
rider who clearly will be going more than 14 mph to wear a helmet that
would not protect him at the speeds that they ride!

Sounds like another post to me!

Ken

Quoted message said:

And there's great doubt that Kivilev's death would have been prevented
by a helmet. A high speed mountain descent ending with an impact with
a pillar sounds far worse than the 14 mph that bike helmets are
certified for.

You must be thinking of someone else - Kivilev died on flat road going
through the town of St. Chamond shortly before he would have have begun the
final climb of the stage.

Kivilev's doctor has explicited stated that the area of his head where the
skull trauma occurred would have protected by a helmet.

Kivilev's death was one reason the pro's - who had long resisted manditory
helmet rules - finally accepted the use of helmets.

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

At 8 Jul 2005 13:27:36 -0700, message
<[email hidden]> was posted by
"Ken M" <[email hidden]>, including some, all or none of the
following:

Quoted message said:

Yeah I guess you might be right. But if that is the case why force a
rider who clearly will be going more than 14 mph to wear a helmet that
would not protect him at the speeds that they ride!

I think Frank's explanation is plausible: lobbying from Bell, to sell
product.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

maxo said:

I confronted a racer boy last week that blew through a four way to the
irritation of three motorists with the right of way (they yelled at me
instead, even though I let them have their turn...)--I simply told him
that the motorized community tends to lump us cyclists together, and when
he rides like a [censored], it negatively impacts drivers perception of me. His
response? "Where's your helmet?"

Can't argue with that...

How about, "My not wearing a helmet makes drivers think you are a [censored]?"

Or, "When drivers start wearing helmets so will I."

Or, "You need a helmet the way you ride like a [censored]."

Wayne

Wayne Pein said:

maxo said:

I confronted a racer boy last week that blew through a four way to the
irritation of three motorists with the right of way (they yelled at me
instead, even though I let them have their turn...)--I simply told him
that the motorized community tends to lump us cyclists together, and
when he rides like a [censored], it negatively impacts drivers perception of
me. His response? "Where's your helmet?"

Can't argue with that...

How about, "My not wearing a helmet makes drivers think you are a [censored]?"

Or, "When drivers start wearing helmets so will I."

I was not in the mood to initiate a helmet discussion, that's personal
choice, but poor behaviour on public roads affects everybody's safety.

Wayne Pein said:

How about, "My not wearing a helmet makes drivers think you are a [censored]?"

Or, "When drivers start wearing helmets so will I."

Or, "You need a helmet the way you ride like a [censored]."

Wayne

Man, those are wiity quips, you should be writing for someone like Jay
Leno.

Life is Good!
Jeff

Chris Neary said:

Quoted message said:

And there's great doubt that Kivilev's death would have been prevented
by a helmet. A high speed mountain descent ending with an impact with
a pillar sounds far worse than the 14 mph that bike helmets are
certified for.

You must be thinking of someone else - Kivilev died on flat road going
through the town of St. Chamond shortly before he would have have begun the
final climb of the stage.

You're right, I was. Sorry.

- Frank Krygowski