SPD / Clipless Pedals - Training

I'm not exactly sure why you wouldn't be able to pull up, but.....

I find if I'm too high or my shoes aren't snug enough I tend not to pull as much.

have you been positioned correctly?

You'd be surprised at how many club level riders don't really pull up at all.
I once said to a guy I was riding with that his seat looked very high, and I thought that may make it difficult for him to pull up. He replied: "oh, I don't pull up."

couldn't believe it.

losse said:

hi gang
I am new to clipless pedals. I got a pair of SPD pedals for my bike. I am finally used to the pedals and locking in and out of them. Now the useful part of the pedals... Is there a way to train to use them? Last night I went out for a decent bike ride and I noticed that I was still using my quads a lot while biking. I've got the "push" part of the pedalling in place, now I would like to master the "pull" part.

Your help is gladly appreciated.

Losse

quite a lot of threads on this related issue. From data comparing elite to regional level cyclists, the better cyclists push down more and pull up less, than the less good cyclists who push down less and pull up more.

In other words i wouldn't worry about it. just pedal the bike and try to generate the highest power you can for the situation concerned.

ric

That's a good point... So ideally, you'd want your clips (on your shoes) to be closer to your heal to get the most pull action right? That way there is more torque and can increase the "pull" efficiency (versus having to lock your calf muscle...)

On a side note, is it true that when your sitting on your seat, your leg should be straight when your foot is on the pedal?

Any other opinions on this topic?

losse said:

, is it true that when your sitting on your seat, your leg should be straight when your foot is on the pedal?
?

not really, no

there's an old "vague" method of adjusting seat height by having your leg straight when the HEEL is on the pedal, but definitely not the ball of the foot.

Ok... so it that a good rule of thumb to go by? "Heel on the pedal while sitting?"

Sometimes I just find my quads burning a lot because of the fact that my leg isn't fully straightened... I think of the extra efffort I use would be similar to squatting and then walking

I actually think that the "heel on the pedal" method is much better than nothing, but there's another way which says the seat height should be ~88.5% of your inseam, measuring from the top of the seat to the centre of the bottom bracket.

getting your inseam measurement EXACT is the tricky part

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Quoted post said:

How much power do we expect we can generate pulling up compared to pushing down? Stuff-all!!

Well, I think of it this way, if you can get a 70% push with your right leg and 30% pull with your left leg, that is 30% less energy that your right leg has to use up...

What else would be the benefit of the clipless?

losse said:

What else would be the benefit of the clipless?

yeah, precisely 🙂 (although I'm not sure about the percentage),
but some people go on as if the pull is equivalent to the push!

losse said:

What else would be the benefit of the clipless?

The benefit of clipless pedals is not so much that they allow you to pull up, but that they hold your foot in the right position on the pedal without having to constantly push down just to keep your foot in contact with the pedal.

It's unlikely that you'll be able to generate any real power on the upstroke (because of the smaller size of those muscles), and trying to do so would probably hurt your downstroke power and be counterproductive. For someone new to clipless pedals, my recommendation would be to use them to practice a smooth pedal stroke by visualizing moving your feet in a circular pattern. An exercise to assist this would be to practice 'kicking forward' over the top of the stroke and 'pulling back' at the bottom as if scraping mud off your shoe.

Excellent tip... Thank you for that bit of information.

Yeah, it seems that the upstroke is more of a myth than factural... I'm glad I clarified that rather than bust my buns trying to perfect a stroke that will only impair my downstroke...

So onto pedal positioning, should the clips on my shoes be as close to my toes as possible or closer to my heel?? Or is this a personal preference?

I thought it should go right in the ball of the foot, but I think it's mostly personal preference.

I'd probably put the cleat in about the middle of the adjustable range on the shoe, at first, and then experiment from there if it doesn't feel right.

Told ya someone would start telling you to pedal in circles :p

Ah well, I suppose the advice to "think about a smooth circle" is reasonable for someone starting out, but if you're busting your balls to stay out the from of a bunch with your heart rate at 190, and you start thinking about the 11 o'clock to 12:30 position on the pedals, you'll go backwards!! 😄

When hammering on the flats, I recommend you "think" of your legs as 1 metre think pistons, pushing and pulling up and down as hard as they freakin' can!!! 🙂 (whilst monitoring your heart rate, of course 😉 ) THis seems to work for me

531Aussie said:

Ah well, I suppose the advice to "think about a smooth circle" is reasonable for someone starting out, but if you're busting your balls to stay out the from of a bunch with your heart rate at 190, and you start thinking about the 11 o'clock to 12:30 position on the pedals, you'll go backwards!!

The advice is not to try to generate *power* through the top, bottom, and upward portions of the stroke, but just to smooth out the pedaling motions so it doesn't bounce your butt off the seat at higher cadence.

Nearly all of the power will be generated on the downstroke except while accelerating rapidly or climbing out of the saddle on a steep hill. Those are the only times that I've ever noticed a significant upward pull.

A good drill in learning correct pedal action, i.e. pushing and pulling, is to spin really fast on downhills. Instead of putting it in a hard gear and maintaining your usual cadence, keep the bike in an easier gear and spin like hell. The trick is to keep the rotation smooth without any bounce in it. Do this on all the downhills and you will soon have the push/pull technique down.

that's a good training tip... I would have never thought to do that... I geared up to max my speed....

I do admit that my fast cadence is pretty wobbly... with and especially without clipless