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Visceral fat

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
3 July 2005
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7 July 2005
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Jimmy
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  1. Hi all,

    I'm 17 years old and male.
    Although I am skinny/thin and underweight as well I have lot of
    visceral fat which results in a very bloated and pooching
    abdomen/belly.
    This is quite strange as I'm both underweight and obese at the same
    time (being called such accumulation of visceral fat "central obesity"😉
    I'm trying to get rid of it especially for health reasons.
    I've bought a set of free weights and I'm not following any particular
    elitist diet but Walter Willett approach to focus on good carbs
    (legumes, low glycemic fruits, vegetables) good fat (nut, olive oil,
    fish) and healthy proteins (eggs, poultry) instead of worrying about
    the exact ratios.

    I would like to know what can I do to get rid of my belly fat.
    How can I lose weight if I'm already underweight?
    and if I am underweight because I'm undermuscled, how can gain muscle
    mass and losing visceral fat at the same time?
    Can I lose visceral fat while being on weight maintenance caloric
    intake?
    and if not how can I afford to be on a caloric deficit intake if losing
    weight would make me even more underweight and look like an anorexic?
    What's the best kind of exercize to lose visceral fat? Strength or
    cardio?

    Maybe my "problem" can be a pretext to discuss new information about
    the problem of visceral fat and how to lose it.

    Thanks in advance,

    David

  2. Check this website for some great explanation as to why so much obesity.
    www.releasingfat.com a website by a nutritionist - Dr Ray Strand who has
    become a rebel among his peers with books such as "What Your Doctor doesn't
    know about Nutritional Medicine Might be Killing You"

    If you like what you read and would like to try his recommendations or
    recommend it to others, visit www.trulyhealthyandwealthy.com or contact me
    at
    [email hidden]

    "Jimmy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi all,

    I'm 17 years old and male.
    Although I am skinny/thin and underweight as well I have lot of
    visceral fat which results in a very bloated and pooching
    abdomen/belly.
    This is quite strange as I'm both underweight and obese at the same
    time (being called such accumulation of visceral fat "central obesity"😉
    I'm trying to get rid of it especially for health reasons.
    I've bought a set of free weights and I'm not following any particular
    elitist diet but Walter Willett approach to focus on good carbs
    (legumes, low glycemic fruits, vegetables) good fat (nut, olive oil,
    fish) and healthy proteins (eggs, poultry) instead of worrying about
    the exact ratios.

    I would like to know what can I do to get rid of my belly fat.
    How can I lose weight if I'm already underweight?
    and if I am underweight because I'm undermuscled, how can gain muscle
    mass and losing visceral fat at the same time?
    Can I lose visceral fat while being on weight maintenance caloric
    intake?
    and if not how can I afford to be on a caloric deficit intake if losing
    weight would make me even more underweight and look like an anorexic?
    What's the best kind of exercize to lose visceral fat? Strength or
    cardio?

    Maybe my "problem" can be a pretext to discuss new information about
    the problem of visceral fat and how to lose it.

    Thanks in advance,

    David

  3. Jimmy said:

    I'm 17 years old and male.

    You have my condolences. 🙁

    Quoted message said:

    Although I am skinny/thin and underweight

    So, this caller is indeed mental who writes Fat Farm posts even though
    he is actually skinny!!!

    Yes, you are indeed nuts. 🙁

    Quoted message said:

    as well I have lot of
    visceral fat which results in a very bloated and pooching
    abdomen/belly.
    This is quite strange as I'm both underweight and obese at the same
    time

    You are nuts. That is bascially all you need to know about the
    subject.

    Want abs of steel instantly? Then don't eat for 12 hours. Follow with
    abdominal exercises.

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

    You have my condolences. 🙁

  4. Jimmy said:

    I'm 17 years old and male.

    You have my condolences. 🙁

    Quoted message said:

    Although I am skinny/thin and underweight

    So, this caller is indeed mental who writes Fat Farm posts even though
    he is actually skinny!!!

    Yes, you are indeed nuts. 🙁

    Quoted message said:

    as well I have lot of
    visceral fat which results in a very bloated and pooching
    abdomen/belly.
    This is quite strange as I'm both underweight and obese at the same
    time

    You are nuts. That is bascially all you need to know about the
    subject.

    Want abs of steel instantly? Then don't eat for 12 hours. Follow with
    abdominal exercises.

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

    You have my condolences. 🙁

  5. Mr-Natural-Health ha scritto:

    Quoted message said:
    Jimmy said:

    I'm 17 years old and male.

    You have my condolences. 🙁

    Quoted message said:

    Although I am skinny/thin and underweight

    So, this caller is indeed mental who writes Fat Farm posts even though
    he is actually skinny!!!

    Yes, you are indeed nuts. 🙁

    Quoted message said:

    as well I have lot of
    visceral fat which results in a very bloated and pooching
    abdomen/belly.
    This is quite strange as I'm both underweight and obese at the same
    time

    You are nuts. That is bascially all you need to know about the
    subject.

    You forget that central obesity is indeed considered being
    overweight/obese.
    Central obesity is very different from subcutaneous obesity and it can
    manifest itself even with accumulation of visceral fat in an otherwise
    skinny body.
    Research a bit about central obesity, understand the difference between
    visceral fat and subcutaneous fat and maybe "maybe" things will make
    more sense in your mind (don't hold you breath though)

    You have my condolences :\

    J. David

  6. Jimmy said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm 17 years old and male.

    You have my condolences. 🙁

    Quoted message said:

    You forget that central obesity is indeed considered being
    overweight/obese.

    No! I got the key points.

    You actually think that a guy having a 34 inch waist is central
    obesity.

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

    You are a fruit, a 17 year old male, don't know if you are fat or
    skinny, a know it all, and a classic troll. 🙁

    That is all you need to know about the subject. 🙂

  7. "Mr-Natural-Health" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel
    messaggio news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jimmy said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I'm 17 years old and male.

    You have my condolences. 🙁

    Quoted message said:

    You forget that central obesity is indeed considered being
    overweight/obese.

    No! I got the key points.

    You actually think that a guy having a 34 inch waist is central
    obesity.

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

    You are a fruit, a 17 year old male, don't know if you are fat or
    skinny, a know it all, and a classic troll. 🙁

    That is all you need to know about the subject. 🙂

    To each its own.
    You're an idiot, childish as very few 3 years old can be and so old that
    your free radicals have already destroyed 3/4 of your brain and cognitive
    faculties.
    Unfortunately you're allowed to vote,
    that's the real problem 🙁

    That is all I need to know about the subject.

    J. David

  8. J David said:

    Unfortunately you're allowed to vote,
    that's the real problem 🙁

    With any luck, you will get yourself killed before you vote. Charles
    Darwin told me so. 🙂

    You have my condolences.

  9. "Mr-Natural-Health" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel
    messaggio news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    J David said:

    Unfortunately you're allowed to vote,
    that's the real problem 🙁

    With any luck, you will get yourself killed before you vote. Charles
    Darwin told me so. 🙂

    With any luck, someone will kill you before you have the chance to cast
    another vote.
    Common sense tells me

    Quoted message said:

    You have my condolences.

    You won't have my condolences, and I'm sure you won't have the condolences
    of anyone when that lucky day will come.

    J. David

  10. This is very funny, in that a relative who had a real nasty streak used
    to say about me: "how could someone so skinny be so fat." Now I get a
    good laugh from it, but at the time, when I was in my late teens also,
    it was just irritating. When I switched to a vegan diet around the age
    of 20, that puffiness in the torso went away. I didn't know what to
    attribute it to at the time, but now I'd say it was the oxidative
    stress, due to the oils I consumed. I went from a corn oil based diet
    to a low fat diet, with nuts, seeds, beans, and grains being my fat
    sources. I ate the seeds and nuts raw. Thus, I ate less fat and the
    fat I ate had much more antioxidant protection than the cheap, refined
    corn oil (that was then fried).

    The evidence has been around a long time. You can look up some of
    JoAnn Braganza's papers (about the dangers of highly unsaturated oils)
    from the 1980s at pubmed.com

    Here's a report that is clear, yet not too technical, from
    www.sciencedaily.com:

    5/2/2005
    Food Fried In Vegetable Oil May Contain Toxic Compound

    MINNEAPOLIS / ST. PAUL -- University of Minnesota researchers A. Saari
    Csallany, a professor of food chemistry and nutritional biochemistry,
    and graduate student Christine Seppanen have shown that when highly
    unsaturated vegetable oils are heated at frying temperature (365 F) for

    extended periods--or even for half an hour--a highly toxic compound,
    HNE (4-hydroxy-trans-2-nonenal) forms in the oil.

    Previously, vegetable oils such as soybean, sunflower and corn were
    regarded as heart-healthy because of their high levels of linoleic
    acid, a polyunsaturated fatty acid. HNE is incorporated into fried food

    in the same concentration as it forms in the heated oil. Also, Csallany

    and her colleagues have found three toxic HNE-related compounds (known
    as HHE, HOE and HDE) in heated soybean oil. They will present their
    work at a poster session from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. Wednesday, May 4, at the

    96th annual meeting of the American Oil Chemists Society in the Salt
    Lake City Convention Center.

    "HNE is a well known, highly toxic compound that is easily absorbed
    from the diet," said Csallany. "The toxicity arises because the
    compound is highly reactive with proteins, nucleic acids--DNA and
    RNA--and other biomolecules. HNE is formed from the oxidation of
    linoleic acid, and reports have related it to several diseases,
    including atherosclerosis, stroke, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's,
    Huntington's and liver diseases."

    Csallany's work underscores the risk of repeated heating, or reusing,
    highly unsaturated oils for frying because HNE accumulates with each
    heating cycle. In future studies, Csallany and her colleagues plan to
    determine how long polyunsaturated oil must be heated at lower
    temperatures in order to form HNE and its related compounds. The study
    was funded by the University of Minnesota.

  11. montygram ha scritto:

    Quoted message said:

    This is very funny, in that a relative who had a real nasty streak used
    to say about me: "how could someone so skinny be so fat." Now I get a
    good laugh from it, but at the time, when I was in my late teens also,
    it was just irritating. When I switched to a vegan diet around the age
    of 20, that puffiness in the torso went away. I didn't know what to
    attribute it to at the time, but now I'd say it was the oxidative
    stress, due to the oils I consumed. I went from a corn oil based diet
    to a low fat diet, with nuts, seeds, beans, and grains being my fat
    sources. I ate the seeds and nuts raw. Thus, I ate less fat and the
    fat I ate had much more antioxidant protection than the cheap, refined
    corn oil (that was then fried).

    The evidence has been around a long time. You can look up some of
    JoAnn Braganza's papers (about the dangers of highly unsaturated oils)
    from the 1980s at pubmed.com

    <cut>

    What about extra virgin olive oil on a dark bottle?
    What about coconut oil? I read it is not considered a *bad* fat anymore
    as it is mainly lauric acid (an healthy fat found on mother milk too)
    rather than myristic or palmitic.
    How could your diet be low fat if you ate nuts and seeds? Unless you
    used to eat very few of them eating nuts and seeds may result in a diet
    way higher in fat content than the standard american diet.

    Thanks

    J. David

  12. On 4 Jul 2005 02:31:24 -0700, Jimmy wrote in
    <news:[email hidden]> on
    sci.med.nutrition :

    Quoted message said:

    montygram ha scritto:

    Quoted message said:

    This is very funny, in that a relative who had a real nasty streak used
    to say about me: "how could someone so skinny be so fat." Now I get a
    good laugh from it, but at the time, when I was in my late teens also,
    it was just irritating. When I switched to a vegan diet around the age
    of 20, that puffiness in the torso went away. I didn't know what to
    attribute it to at the time, but now I'd say it was the oxidative
    stress, due to the oils I consumed. I went from a corn oil based diet
    to a low fat diet, with nuts, seeds, beans, and grains being my fat
    sources. I ate the seeds and nuts raw. Thus, I ate less fat and the
    fat I ate had much more antioxidant protection than the cheap, refined
    corn oil (that was then fried).

    The evidence has been around a long time. You can look up some of
    JoAnn Braganza's papers (about the dangers of highly unsaturated oils)
    from the 1980s at pubmed.com

    <cut>

    What about extra virgin olive oil on a dark bottle?
    What about coconut oil? I read it is not considered a *bad* fat anymore
    as it is mainly lauric acid (an healthy fat found on mother milk too)
    rather than myristic or palmitic.

    Guess what food is the highest in myristic acid?

    According to the INRAN (Italian Nutrion Institute) data base (that lets me
    sort foods by nutrient), that is cocounut oil (17 g / 100 g).

    Quoted message said:

    How could your diet be low fat if you ate nuts and seeds? Unless you
    used to eat very few of them eating nuts and seeds may result in a diet
    way higher in fat content than the standard american diet.

    Thanks

    J. David

  13. Nutrition. 2005 Jul-Aug;21(7-8):867-73. Related Articles, Links

    Dietary phosphatidylcholine alleviates fatty liver induced by orotic
    acid.

    Buang Y, [censored] YM, Cha JY, Nagao K, Yanagita T.

    Department of Applied Biological Sciences, Saga University, Saga,
    Japan.

    OBJECTIVE: We compared the effect of dietary phosphatidylcholine (PC)
    with that of triacylglycerol (TG), both with the same fatty acid
    profiles, on fatty infiltration in orotic acid (OA)-induced fatty liver
    of Sprague-Dawley rats. METHODS: Rats were fed an OA-supplemented diets
    containing TG (TG + OA group) or PC (20% of dietary lipid, PC + OA
    group) for 10 d. Rats fed the TG diet without OA supplementation served
    as the basal group. RESULTS: Administering OA significantly increased
    the weights and TG accumulation in livers of the TG + OA group compared
    with the basal group. These changes were attributed to significant
    increases in the activities of fatty acid synthase, malic enzyme, and
    glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase, which are fatty acid synthetic
    enzymes, and phosphatidate phosphohydrolase, a rate-limiting enzyme of
    TG synthesis. However, the PC + OA group did not show TG accumulation
    and OA-induced increases of these enzyme activities. Further, a
    significant increase in the activity of carnitine palmitoyl
    transferase, a rate-limiting enzyme of fatty acid beta-oxidation, was
    found in the PC + OA group. CONCLUSIONS: Dietary PC appears to
    alleviate the OA-induced hepatic steatosis and hepatomegaly, mainly
    through the attenuation of hepatic TG synthesis and enhancement of
    fatty acid beta-oxidation in Sprague-Dawley rats.

    PMID: 15975496 [PubMed - in process]

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Who loves ya.
    Tom

    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

  14. Jimmy said:


    You forget that central obesity is indeed considered being
    overweight/obese.
    Central obesity is very different from subcutaneous obesity and it can
    manifest itself even with accumulation of visceral fat in an otherwise
    skinny body.
    Research a bit about central obesity, understand the difference between
    visceral fat and subcutaneous fat and maybe "maybe" things will make
    more sense in your mind (don't hold you breath though)

    You have my condolences :\

    Johnny boy doesn't deserve your condolences. John the "man", twit
    extraodinaire, has refused my strongly voiced suggestions in the past
    to get a lobotomy. He didn't, the rest is history.

    RBR

  15. Coconut oil is usually best because it's 92% saturated, meaning that it
    is most resistant to free radical degradation, all things being equal.
    However, the 8% unsaturated fatty acids can be very nasty, so you want
    to buy the highest quality. My favorite is Coconut Oil Supreme, which
    I got over the internet. However, I usually use butter for low heat
    cooking, but I always skim the yellow film off the sides of the sticks
    - that is free radical degradation (called lipid peroxidation). I do
    like shredded coconut, which I get at a great price, and then grind
    into a powder. It then goes well with almost everything. If the olive
    oil is truly high quality, and if you don't damage it by cooking
    incorrectly, then it should be fine, but how would you know? There was
    a scam in Italy a few years ago. A company was selling low quality
    olive oil as extra virgin, first pressed organic. It took a while for
    anyone to notice. That is a big problem, as well as transportation,
    storage, etc. With the coconut oil, it should taste like fresh
    coconut, or else you know it's not the best. This is not true of other
    oils, unless you have tested them under lab conditions, as company
    testers do.

    I also want to make clear that I do not advocate a vegan diet of nuts,
    seeds, beans, whole grains, etc. I was always hungry and out of
    energy. However, the gastrointestinal problems did go away, and now I
    realize that was due to the lipid peroxidation. When I went to Greek
    restaurants, and ate the greasy falafel, my guts felt like they did on
    the old corn oil diet. Otherwise, I was almost always okay - that was
    the only greasy thing I ate for 14 years. Now my diet is high in fat,
    but most of the fatty acids are saturated, and so there's no lipid
    peroxidation problem (plus I eat berries, dark chocolate, white tea,
    and other food high in antioxidants).

  16. montygram ha scritto:

    Quoted message said:

    Coconut oil is usually best because it's 92% saturated, meaning that it
    is most resistant to free radical degradation, all things being equal.

    Which wouldn't explain though how thousands of nutrition and
    epidemilogical studies show myristic, stearic and palmitic acid having
    a detrimental effect on human health and body.
    Probably the reason why certain saturated fats seem to have a good
    effect and other saturated fats seem to have a bad effect is to be
    found on the kind of fat consumed rather than their saturation, clearly
    certain saturated fats are okay while other are anything but healthy.

    J. David

  17. Yes, I've addressed this, but you've got it the wrong way around.
    Epidemiological studies examine "markers," and in the case of coconut
    oil, it is said that it is "atherogenic" because it raises cholesterol
    levels, but if cholesterol is only a problem if it is oxidized, then
    coconut oil is the best fat source, because it oxidizes less than any
    other, assuming it is not refined. If what you and these "studies" say
    is accurate, Asians on coconut oil diets would have been dying of heart
    disease in huge numbers, yet the opposite is true. Look at the WHO
    statistics. Compared to Western nations, these "primitive" peoples
    hardly ever die of heart disease, even though they are consuming huge
    amounts of saturated fatty acids. I have already addressed how
    "saturated fat" isn't even defined in a way that would satisfy basic
    scientific methodological requirements, and yet that is what is being
    done by "nutritional experts" and "epidemiologists" all the time. At
    least the epidemiologists admit that if they start off with incorrect
    assumptions, the results are meaningless, and in this case they are
    horribly misleading. Actual experiments done on people who eat almost
    all their fat calories from coconut or animals fed coconut demonstrates
    this, for example:

    "Cholesterol, coconut, and diets on Polynesian atolls: a natural
    experiment: the Pukapuka and Tokelau Island Studies." Ian A. Prior,
    M.D., et. al. (The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 34: August
    1981, pp. 1552-1561). Quotation from the abstract: "Vascular disease
    is uncommon in both populations and there is no evidence of the high
    saturated fat intake have a harmful effect in these populations."
    Quotation from the text: "The migration of Tokelau Islanders from
    their atolls to the very different environment of New Zealand is
    associated with changes in lipids that indicate increased risk of
    atherogenesis. This is associated with an actual fall in saturated fat
    intake... and an increase in carbohydrate and sugar."

    "Pancreatic Disease: A casualty of hepatic 'detoxification'?"
    J.M. Braganza. The Lancet; October 29, 1983, pp. 1000-1003).
    Quotation from the text: "...induction [of pancreatic disease] is
    facilitated by an ample supply of dietary polyunsaturated fatty
    acids... Lipid peroxidation occurs biologically when oxygen free
    radicals attack polyunsaturated fats, such as those in cell
    membranes... the products of lipid peroxidation are among the most
    cytotoxic substances known and they may also generate powerful
    bioactive substances, including key regulators of the inflammatory
    response, as well as a wide range of carcinogenic compounds... In the
    USA the pattern of intake has changed; polyunsaturated fats contribute
    a much higher proportion than previously [and this was in 1983, before
    the big canola oil push; canola oil is about 37% polyunsaturated fatty
    acids]... There is little that clinicians can do to halt the progress
    of chronic pancreatitis and pancreatic disease..." [but you can just
    stop eating foods that contain more than a trace amount of
    polyunsaturated fatty acids].

    Find me one "study" of a group of people who ate fresh coconut as their
    major source of fat (at least 95%) for 20 years or more, and had more
    than a tiny incidence of heart disease. You can't, because this has
    never happened. Please, use your ability to think for yourself. If
    you do, you'll realize how ludicrous claims against saturated fatty
    acids are. The claims against "saturated fat" are impossilbe to verify
    until a standard definition for this term is agreed upon by
    researchers. Lard, at 39% saturation, is almost always classified as a
    "saturated fat," yet I would never consume it, because with 60% or so
    unsaturated fatty acids, it's very dangerou (and considering its lack
    of antioxidant protection, it is probably more dangerous than vegetable
    oils that are higher in PUFAs, but also higher in antioxidants -
    asssuming that the antioxidants haven't all been refined out of the
    finished product). It is true that stearic acid, found in higher
    percentages in beef, aid iron absorption, and that this may be
    unhealthy if your diet is high in iron and unsaturated fatty acids.
    But as a recent study, which was posted and discussed on this NG a
    couple of months ago demonstrated, Asians have high iron levels but not
    the "chronic disease" that is associated with such levels. This is
    because if you pack your body with saturated fatty acids, you create a
    kind of biochemical shield. Just as coconut oil is 8% unsaturated but
    can last years without going rancid, even with no preservatives, so too
    will your body be able to resist oxidative damge, even something like
    skin cancer. In Bruce Fife's book "Saturated fat may save your life,"
    there is a detailed discussion of this. I am going to start a new
    post, called tell me what is wrong with this study, in which I ask
    where the researchers, of the kind of evidence you place so much value
    in, went horribly wrong. See you there.

  18. On 5 Jul 2005 11:36:14 -0700, montygram wrote in
    <news:[email hidden]> on
    sci.med.nutrition :

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, I've addressed this, but you've got it the wrong way around.
    Epidemiological studies examine "markers," and in the case of coconut
    oil, it is said that it is "atherogenic" because it raises cholesterol
    levels, but if cholesterol is only a problem if it is oxidized, then
    coconut oil is the best fat source, because it oxidizes less than any
    other, assuming it is not refined. If what you and these "studies" say
    is accurate, Asians on coconut oil diets would have been dying of heart
    disease in huge numbers, yet the opposite is true. Look at the WHO
    statistics. Compared to Western nations, these "primitive" peoples
    hardly ever die of heart disease, even though they are consuming huge
    amounts of saturated fatty acids.


    [...]

    Well, that might happen for different reasons as well.
    The WHO data show that their life expectancy is shorter: maybe one dies of
    other causes before one has time enough to die of heart disease?

  19. I recall seeing studies that indicate that stearic acid is harmless.

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